Water Services (Amendment) Bill 2016: Committee and Remaining Stages

Sections 1 to 3, inclusive, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Simon Coveney)

I thank the Seanad for allowing the timely passage of this legislation before the summer recess. We all know the background to it.

What the Government and I are trying to do is to create a space and a window of opportunity for a discussion, the input of experts and recommendations to come through an expert commission to an Oireachtas committee. That can then allow us, in nine months' time, to make a democratic decision as to how we want to pay for domestic water supply and the treatment of wastewater from households. We have had a lot of heat politically on this issue in Ireland for the last two to three years and people have taken very hardline positions on both sides of this argument. Whoever is in government in three, five or ten years' time will have an obligation to ensure we are improving water infrastructure nationally. We have a disgracefully bad infrastructure whereby nearly half of all the water leaks through the pipes before it gets to its destination and many households have been on boil water notices for long periods.

There has been a decision which I think is now accepted by most that moving away from 34 - it is now 31 - local authorities all doing their own thing on water and moving towards a single utility model makes sense. The Government is putting a process in place to decide how we pay for that, whether that be through general taxation, as some argue, through a cost recovery model where individual homes pay the full cost of delivering and treating water from their homes, or through some blending of the two, reflecting important issues like ability to pay but, at the same time, ensuring we have incentives for water conservation, better water management and putting a value on the cost of delivering and managing water and wastewater.

The expert commission is a group of very well qualified individuals. We took advice in regard to the skill set we should get and the number of commission members there should be from abroad and at home and acted on that advice. We had a setback in regard to the first chairperson but that has now been corrected and I am confident the new chairperson will do a very competent job. When the commission reports back in five months' time, it will then be up to the political system to decide to respond to the recommendations made in that report. That will initially be through a special Oireachtas committee that will be set up and in which I am sure the Seanad will have an involvement. Then, after about three months, that committee will bring recommendations to the political system - to the Dáil initially - in order to have a debate and vote on what our international obligations are and how we respond to thee. There are also key issues around whether we can create political consensus on something on which, as with other fundamental resources we have to provide to homes and people, we should try to get more political consensus than we have been able to get in the past.

Some have taken a purist view on this issue. I know that the former Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, took a very hard line and this was the wrong thing to do. We are living in a new political reality. We had to make choices and the choice was this: either we put a process in place that could get majority political support and will, I hope, result in a sustainable political outcome in terms of how we pay for water, or people just stay in their corner and hold their lines. Both Irish Water and water charges would have been abolished after the election in the political heat of that debate. I believe that would have been a massive setback for both water infrastructure and the approach to water on which we need to have a mature and informed debate.

This legislation simply suspends water charges and all matters relating to them for nine months. That nine-month period can be extended if the committee asks for more time or if the Minister thinks more time is needed for the process. It will not be suspended just to be politically convenient in terms extending for another two years, out past the next election - that is not what this facility is about. At some point in the next nine months, or, if necessary, maybe slightly later than that, we will be faced with an important democratic decision that the Government will facilitate and the Dáil and the Seanad will debate and decide on. I look forward to that process concluding and hope we will be able to make decisions that make sense and can find acceptance across communities and will also respect the international obligations we have made around the Water Framework Directive and other commitments. Most importantly, I hope we can have a sustainable outcome to the water debates that communities and the political system can accept is the right way forward and that we can get on with actually financing and fixing the infrastructure that is needed to be able to provide safe water for families and their homes into the future.

I again thank Senators for their timely and speedy consideration of this legislation. We will enact it and get on with the process.

Senator Diarmuid Wilson

I welcome the Minister back to the House and commend him for the effort he is making, not only in this regard but also in dealing with the housing crisis. I am representing my colleague, Senator Jennifer Murnane O'Connor, who cannot be present today as she is at another engagement. She sends her apologies.

I welcome the suspension of water charges for a period of nine months. I welcome this legislation providing for the expert commission to look into the whole area of water charges and how we are going to pay for water because we have to pay for it. As the Minister said, coming to a consensus as to how we do that is what this project is all about. Unfortunately, it is not going to be an easy task because the vast majority of the representatives in the Lower House are against the manner in which water charges were to be introduced. The concept has been badly handled from the outset, as I believe everybody will agree. The then Minister, Mr. Hogan, made a hames of it. The former Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, was thrown in at the deep end when the mess was created and, in fairness, tried his best. Now, the baton has been passed to the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, and I wish him well with his endeavours in that regard.

I am in favour of water charges, but my party policy, with which I am in total agreement, is that the infrastructure should be in place before any charges are made. However, we are where we are. I wish the project well and hope it works. With regard to political consensus, no matter how logically the case is made, there are some people who will not accept it because it is not in their political interest to do so. That is another reality. From my party's perspective, we hope a reasonable proposition can be made by this expert commission.

I was sorry that Joe O'Toole, a former colleague in this House, had to step down. He is an excellent, capable and competent person. It is important to state he was not to be paid for doing that job; therefore, if some people think he is losing out financially, he is not. I wish him well in the future. Ialso wish this legislation a speedy passage.

Senator Paudie Coffey

I thank the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, for outlining the rationale behind what is essential legislation. As I outlined in the debate last week, it is legislation that was formulated to facilitate Government formation due to the make-up of the political parties and the political will in the Lower House and this House also.

I reiterate my concerns about the future of Irish Water. This is something that was capitalised on to a large degree in the last general election for populist reasons by many political parties. It is a political issue, I have no doubt, but it is also a societal one.

I hope this legislation will now give the necessary space, as the Minister said, for mature debate on the requirements of the country, society and citizens, as well as the need for quality water infrastructure in the country for the years ahead. We need to have a sustainable system that provides quality drinking water and treated water that does not pollute rivers and bays. We need to ensure we do not have concerns around capacity in major urban environments.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh relayed some of the things that have gone wrong in Connemara. In my area in Waterford contamination occurs and people cannot drink the public water supply. When that happens, the people hold their politicians to account and hold the system to account. It is not a question of if things go wrong but when things go wrong with water networks. If we cannot point to the responsible actions of investment, the same populist politicians calling for abolition of charges will have to be held to account.

I wish the Bill well and, in particular, the independent expert commission well. Those involved will now undertake an important body of work. I mean no disrespect to the politicians in this Chamber or others, but I genuinely believe there is more mature debate in many primary schools and among children on the sustainability of the water network than we have seen in the public discourse during the past year or two. I honestly mean that. We could learn more about sustainability and the need for a quality water network in the green schools than from many of the popular notions we have heard in the public discourse in recent weeks.

The Bill will suspend charges for nine months to allow space, which I accept. I have concerns that this is a retrograde step, but let us give it space. I encourage all political parties to be responsible in their engagement and propositions. Ultimately, someone has to pay for this quality network. This will have to happen through the polluter pays principle, something we have agreed with our EU partners. We have Water Framework Directive responsibilities that we cannot abdicate, ignore or neglect. There are issues around the EU derogation also.

I sincerely hope we can reach outcomes that the majority can live with and that can sustain networks in the future. Essentially, if consumers are not paying, it will fall back on the taxpayer again. It will fall back on those in the squeezed middle to whom we often refer. They are working people and PAYE workers. Some may think they will have a lesser charge because these charges are being suspended, but in fact PAYE workers will be paying far more in trying to sustain a network that literally has failed in recent years.

We need to grasp this nettle once and for all. I look forward to engaging in the debate in the coming months and encourage others to do so also. I thank the Minister for outlining the rationale and wish the Bill well. I sincerely hope that at the end of this process the majority can agree at least that we will invest in the water network in a sustainable way for the future.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I welcome Senator Billy Lawless back after his recent lay-off and congratulate him on his remarks this morning.

Senator Billy Lawless

I do not live here at the moment, but I come from Galway. I remember eight or nine years ago when the cryptosporidium problem occurred and there was no drinking water in Galway for four or five months in a city that depends on tourism.

Since The Gathering tourism has increased by 15% year on year. A visitor cannot even get a room in Dublin anymore. Tourism is valuable and we must have a proper water system to support it. I remember farming 30 years ago around Tuam. All those areas had their own group schemes. People were paying far more than €3 per week.

We must have water and proper water systems if we want tourism to increase and that is happening. We have been lucky in recent months and I hope it stays that way with regard to terrorism. Ireland is a sought-out place and we have to have proper infrastructure and water for the people and when tourists come.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Caithfidh mé a rá gur thacaigh Sinn Féin go drogallach leis an bpíosa reachtaíochta seo mar nach bhfuil sa chás seo i ndáiríre ach cleas polaitiúil le tóin Fhianna Fáil a shábháil.

It is not often I agree with Senator Paudie Coffey on issues, but I certainty agree with him in this case. We all know this legislation is a kick to touch to save face for Fianna Fáil in the light of the extraordinary public mobilisation on water charges. Fianna Fáil needed to kick this issue to touch politically for nine months to try to rejuvenate itself. It is clear, even from the statements this morning, where Fianna Fáil stands on water charges.

We have heard a great deal of talk about the new politics in these Houses, as well as the need to respect the mandate and the need to put a Government together. I put it to those in Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael that if they really believed in that, they would have put the issue of water charges to a vote in the Dáil and the Seanad. Perhaps it might have been defeated, but surely that would have been part of the new mandate also.