I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I thank the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, for taking this debate. The Bill was laid before the House by my colleague Senator Crowe and me. Across the world, there has been a pay transparency movement. Our former colleague Deputy Bacik, who is now in the other House, brought in the original pay equality legislation highlighting pay transparency in respect of salary scales within organisations. This Bill is an add-on to that legislation. It is envisaged it will improve the gender pay gap and any gaps in respect of pay for minorities and people who identify as LGBTI.
I became interested in bringing forward this Bill when I was returned to the Seanad in 2020. At that time, pay transparency laws were being introduced in Canada, which was one of the first North American countries to do so. I was looking at what was being done in Toronto at the time. Since then, there has been a huge wave of legislation introduced across Canada, with eight out of ten states now having pay transparency laws. Their laws differ somewhat from those in other jurisdictions, with some requiring that companies with more than 250 employees advertise their pay scales. In the United States, they have gone the other way, with pay transparency legislation in some states applying to companies with more than 15 employees.
In drawing up our Bill, Senator Crowe and I decided we would follow the discussions that are happening in Europe. The provisions will apply to companies with more than 50 employees, which means the Bill is very much a middle ground. We are not inventing the wheel here. Similar legislation is being introduced all across North America, and there is significant discussion going on in Europe.
Many people in industry will be looking at this Bill and may be concerned. Nobody likes change, but the old mantra that a change is as good as a rest comes to mind. Employers do not necessarily like change but there are a lot of known benefits to pay transparency legislation. It has been introduced across North America since 2021 and we have some data from that. We know pay transparency legislation attracts more talent. When a job is advertised with information on the pay scale, there are more applicants and a better quality of applicant. Young people these days are smart and do not want to have their time wasted. They do not want to have to wait until the end of a process to know how much they will be paid. Young people are sick of seeing references to a competitive salary. They want to know exactly what they are getting. Another major benefit of pay transparency is that it seems to be helping with employee trust. Existing employees can see what incoming colleagues will be paid, which helps to ensure everybody is on the same pay scale. The published information provides a good place to start negotiations. Organisations with pay transparency are starting to see much better staff retention and more engagement with senior management.
This legislation represents something new but not something bad. Employers, when they look at it, should not think it is something bad. Similar provision is being introduced all across the United States and Canada. In this country, many large organisations are going ahead of the law and already are publishing salary scales. They know that whether legislation comes in under this Government or further down the line by way of the European legislation that is in the offing, pay transparency is coming down the tracks.
It is important for the Seanad to lead the way on this issue. There is a great tradition in this Chamber of working for employee rights. The legislation introduced by Deputy Bacik, when she was a Member of this House, was game changing. The Seanad has a history of promoting employee rights and we should lead on this particular issue. We should not wait for European legislation to come down the tracks. The Bill is quite detailed and includes provision for other safeguards, such as ensuring employers cannot look for people's previous salary scale. The legislation has many positive provisions and I hope the Minister, even if he cannot take them on board wholesale, will accept as much as possible of what is proposed. I ask that we ensure the Bill is enacted as soon as possible. It is a small Bill but it will be very effective.
Anecdotally, I am aware that women are particularly affected by the lack of transparency around pay. Senator Crowe was driven from a different angle to introduce this Bill. For me, it was speaking to a number of friends who had applied for jobs that were advertised as offering a competitive salary. They might be offered the job at a salary of, say, €80,000, which is, of course, a lot of money. These are professional people, including lawyers going for in-house counsel jobs. The women are starting on €70,000 or thereabouts, whereas I am hearing the men going for in-house counsel jobs are getting six-figure sums. There is something amiss here, which is that there is a tradition in this country of paying women less than men. There is a pay gap across Europe of nearly 15%. This is just one example of it.
I hope the Minister will take these proposals on board and that the Bill passes Second Stage today and proceeds to Committee Stage. I hope my colleagues across the House will support its progression.
