The Minister of State is welcome. He has ten minutes to make his opening statement.
Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023: Second Stage
Question proposed: “That the Bill be now read a Second Time”.
The purpose of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 is to provide for the number of members of Dáil Éireann and the European Parliament, the revision of Dáil and European Parliament constituencies and the number of members to be elected for each of such constituencies in the light of the results of census 2022, and having regard to European Council decision of 22 September 2023 establishing the composition of the European Parliament.
In broad terms, the Bill we are debating provides for the total number of Members of Dáil Éireann to be 174 and the number of constituencies to be 43 in accordance with the recommendations in the Constituency Review Report 2023 published by An Coimisiún Toghcháin on 30 August 2023. It also provides for the election of 14 Members to the European Parliament across the three constituencies of Dublin, Midlands-North-West and South in accordance with the recommendations in the Review of European Parliament Constituencies Report 2023 published by An Coimisiún Toghcháin on 20 November 2023.
In debating and deciding upon this Bill, the Oireachtas will meet its constitutional obligation to review and revise Dáil constituencies with due regard to population change and its distribution around the country. To support the Oireachtas in this task, the Electoral Reform Act 2022 provided for the establishment of An Coimisiún Toghcháin and assigned it responsibility for, among other matters, the review of Dáil and European Parliament constituencies. Under section 30(3) of the Electoral Reform Act 2022, An Coimisiún Toghcháin is "independent in the performance of its functions."
Since the report’s publication, the Government has given due consideration to the recommendations of an coimisiún and, in accordance with accepted practice since 1980, has agreed to implement them in full and without change. The Bill before this House provides for this.
Our Constitution sets out clearly and distinctly the overarching requirements that apply to the membership of Dáil Éireann. In addition, and complementary to these constitutional provisions, chapter 7 of Part 2 of the Electoral Reform Act 2022 provides for a constituency review following each census of population and establishes, among other things, the terms of reference for such reviews. The constitutional provisions require that Dáil constituencies be revised whenever population change, as ascertained in a census, leads to population to Member ratios in individual constituencies that are significantly out of line with the national average or the limits set in the Constitution of one Member to every 20,000 to 30,000 of population.
It has been six years since Dáil constituencies were last revised, by way of the Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Act 2017, which gave legal effect to the recommendations in the Constituency Commission Report 2017. The results of census 2022 show an 8.1% population increase on the 2016 population, with population growth tending to be stronger in the eastern side of the country. A total of 5,149,139 people are now resident in the State, the highest the population has been for 171 years. The population is such now that the ratio of Members to population, at 32,182, is outside the constitutional upper limit of 1:30,000. While this does not make the composition of the Thirty-third Dáil unconstitutional, since it was formed on the basis of total numbers set with reference to the census of 2016, there is now an imperative to legislate for revised Dáil constituencies to bring them into line with the requirements of Article 16.2 of the Constitution in good time for the next general election.
In the High Court case taken by then Deputy Finian McGrath and Deputy Catherine Murphy in 2007, Mr. Justice Clarke stated he was satisfied there is an "urgent burden" on the Oireachtas to review constituencies following a census. In effect, he concluded the Oireachtas must act promptly to bring constituencies in line with population once a census reveals significant population change.
Chapter 7 of Part 2 of the Electoral Reform Act 2022 provides for the review of Dáil and European Parliament constituencies to be undertaken by An Coimisiún Toghcháin. Under these provisions, an coimisiún's report on the review of Dáil and European Parliament constituencies must be published within three months of the publication of final census results. Final results for census 2022 were published on 30 May 2023, with an coimisiún's Constituency Review Report 2023 subsequently finalised and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas on 30 August 2023. By now, I am sure all Members are familiar with its content. In short, the main recommendations are as follows: the number of Members of Dáil Éireann should be 174, up 14, which will give rise to the largest Dáil in the State's history; and there should be 43 constituencies, up four, of which 15 will be five-seat, up two, 15 will be four-seat, down two, and 13 will be three-seat, up four. Overall, an coimisiún reported that it was satisfied, in light of the constitutional requirements and its terms of reference, that the recommended Dáil constituencies meet the constitutional requirements and provide for equality of representation across constituencies.
The commission was also required to report on the constituencies for the election of Members to the European Parliament. While an coimisiún's report of 30 August 2023 recommended no change, subsequently, a European Council decision on the composition of the European Parliament was adopted on 22 September. This provided for, among other matters, 14 Members to be elected to represent Ireland in the next European Parliament. Against this background, An Coimisiún Toghcháin commenced a further review of European Parliament constituencies and published its European Parliament Constituencies Report 2023 on 20 November 2023. In that report, an coimisiún recommended a three constituency configuration, with Dublin at four seats remaining unchanged. South will retain five seats but will transfer the counties of Laois and Offaly to the Midlands-North-West constituency. The Midlands-North-West constituency, with the addition of the counties of Laois and Offaly, will increase to five seats, up one.
I will now outline the provisions in the Bill before us today. Section 1 provides for the definition of particular references in the Schedule to the Bill.
Section 2 provides that once the Act is passed there will be 174 Members in the next Dáil Éireann. Section 3 provides for those 174 Members to represent the constituencies specified in the Schedule. There will be 43 constituencies, of which 15 will be five-seat, 15 will be four-seat and 13 will be three-seat.
Section 4 provides that each constituency shall return the number of Members specified in relation to it in the Schedule.
Section 5 amends the European Parliament Elections Act 1997 to provide for the election of 14 Members to the European Parliament from the revised constituencies of Dublin, Midlands-North-West and South.
Section 6 provides for the repeal, on the dissolution of the Dáil that next occurs following the enactment of the Bill, of the Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Act 2017.
Section 7 is a standard provision, which provides for the Short Title of the Bill and its collective citation with the Electoral Act 1992 and the European Parliament Elections Act 1997.
This Bill continues the long-established practice of implementing the recommendations of independent constituency reviews in full and without amendment, which has been an important factor in supporting the independence of the review process. It is a matter for the Oireachtas to revise the constituencies and I look forward to the debate on the Bill. I commend this Bill to the House.
Before calling the next speaker, I welcome to the Seanad Chamber the pupils of St. Felim's National School in Keadue, County Cavan. Cuirim fáilte rompu go léir. I extend a special welcome to their teacher, Ciara Farrell. I hope they will enjoy their trip to our Parliament and that they will learn something that will be of benefit to them.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I will not require the full ten minutes. This is very straightforward legislation. As the Minister of State said in his concluding comments, it is essentially about establishing the new constituencies for elections to Dáil Éireann and for the European Parliament elections which will take place in June of next year. We have a tradition of implementing those independent commission recommendations in full and without amendment and I am certain that will be the case in this instance also.
Comments from some Members of the other House are, however, unfortunate, which suggested that the independent commission was in some way biased in its deliberations and that it set the variants lower in certain areas of the country for various reasons. To be honest, I think that is an uncalled-for assertion. The independent commission, which we legislated for in this House, is a very important organisation. It had an unenviable task in setting the new constituencies for Dáil Éireann in light of the huge growth in population this country has experienced in recent years. It obviously made the decision to have higher and lower variances in different parts of the country to try to maintain county boundaries to the greatest extent possible. That was the right thing to do for the commission. Obviously, the higher the number of seats, the greater the difficulty in terms of redrawing those boundaries. It is fair to say there is probably a greater variance than many of us would have expected. The highest variance is in Clare at +8.08 with a population of 31,985 per TD, versus on the other end of it, -8.13 in Kildare South, which has a representation ratio of 27,186 per TD. There is certainly a greater variance there but the commission had a very difficult task.
With regard to the European Parliament, the changes, which are largely in the Midlands-North-West constituency, reflect the changing population and the increased membership for Ireland in view of the revisions.
I will not say much more than that. The commission is to be commended for the work it has done. It has a very important to role to play going forward in terms of education and information, the register and so on, although today is not the day to discuss that. I thank the Minister of State for bringing forward the Bill and I am certain it will pass without amendment.
I welcome the Minister of State and his officials. As we come to the end of another calendar year, if not perhaps a political one, I particularly thank the Minister of State for his work in the area of electoral reform. As Senator Cummins said, we are members of the Oireachtas joint committee on housing, planning and local government, so we have a very close interaction with the Department. I take this opportunity to pass on my thanks to the other two Ministers in the Department. Electoral reform is very important and I know the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, is passionate about it.
The Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023 provides for an amendment to the number of Members of Dáil Éireann, the revision of constituencies and the number of Members to be elected for such constituencies, and the repeal of the Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Act 2017. It seeks to give effect to European Council decision 2023/2061 of September 2023 establishing the composition of the European Parliament and for the purpose of the revised parliamentary constituencies, provide for the number of members to be elected to such European parliamentary constituencies, amend the European Parliament Elections Act 1997 and provide for related matters.
At the outset, I congratulate the Electoral Commission. We established the commission and it was part of the programme for Government. There was a lot of engagement at committee level, with the Dáil and Seanad and with Oireachtas Members generally. I believe it has done very good work in a short period of time and, of course, is ably led by its chairperson, Ms Justice Marie Baker. In the context of what we are doing today, as the Minister of State has already outlined, the Bill provides for 174 TDs, which is up by 14. While some people balked at the idea, this is an independent commission. I am fully supportive of this, although I want to pass on some comments.
Either we have an independent commission to do work or we do not. In this case, we have a very able one and we should absolutely support it and never call into question its independence. When we think of past arrangements and how the whole thing was manipulated or gerrymandered, or at least it was suggested or alleged that might happen, this is totally independent of any parliamentarian. I accept there were winners and losers in the shake-up of the constituencies, and there was pressure on people, but that is democracy. None of us are here forever, which is a great thing. We are only passing through. We are custodians and guardians in this Parliament. While it is a great privilege and many of us will robustly compete and seek re-election, others will opt out for various reasons. There is always room for fresh ideas and fresh people in these Houses, which is to be encouraged.
It is important that I share some issues with the Minister of State. When the Electoral Commission report on boundaries was under way, there was some discussion. At the launch of the commission's report, when it was finally published, the chairperson, Ms Justice Marie Baker, outlined the challenges that she encountered in preparing and finalising the new electoral boundaries. Among the issues she cited that day was that six-seat constituencies were not allowed. Let us be clear. The Government took a decision to set the terms of reference, which is its prerogative, and it did not permit that. However, Ms Justice Baker decided to take the opportunity to raise this when delivering the commission report. She said that six-seat constituencies were not allowed but “if permitted would allow the commission a greater degree of flexibility in trying to limit the number of county boundary infringements”. There has to be learning in all of this too. That is a wake-up call from the very eminent, able and capable Ms Justice Marie Baker, who was ultimately charged with chairing this commission. She put down that marker.
After the report, many people were talking about boundaries and the possibility of six-seaters, but we must remember that the tripartite Government, with its three groups, agreed the terms of reference. There were restrictions and she was right to point them out. However, she got on with her work and she was not complaining. That was what she was asked to do and she fulfilled the task. Her report also stated that addressing the constitutional and statutory constraints with regard to our election processes is an imperative that requires to be tackled and sorted before the next constituency review by the Electoral Commission. Again, that is a learning. She is telling us something and we have to listen to her. I fully agree with all of the recommendations. It is important that if someone of this stature chooses to make these very concise and considered statements, we need to take them on board.
It is great that there is independence. We are increasing the number of Dáil Deputies and I have no difficulty with that. Of course, there will be challenges around all of that in terms of the infrastructure here, but that is not for today. I will close by commending the commission and its team on their work. It has just published a research paper and it is inviting members of the public to contribute. There is a tight timeframe because it is near Christmas and the closing date for submissions is 12 January 2024, by which date the commission wants feedback on a number of issues dealing with research and the electoral process. That is a positive. Its publications have been very impressive. It is sending a clear message to the public beyond the realms of Leinster House that, as a commission, it wants to engage with and strengthen the electoral processes. It will do the work that it is tasked to do by the Government and it will stay on message within the terms of reference that it is asked to follow, and while there may be limitations, that is not a call that it makes. It is important that the Electoral Commission wants to hear from the public outside of Leinster House. I would encourage people to contribute. The commission wants to prioritise a schedule of research that will support the work of the Minister of State in regard to electoral reform.
I commend the commission on its very successful work it in getting this up and running. Again, I fully support the legislation. It is timely, well articulated and independent. That is what we have always fought for and what we have always sought. We have it now, so let us endorse it.
Fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. He is very welcome, as usual. I agree with much that has been said by Senators Cummins and Boyhan. I am very much of the opinion that this is an independent commission and we must have trust in an independent commission. Tinkering with what an independent commission has done, when it seems to have done a good job, would not be a good thing, so I am glad that no amendments will be accepted on this.
On 30 August last, the Electoral Commission made its independent recommendation to the Oireachtas on the make-up of Ireland's electoral constituencies for the next Dáil and European Parliament elections. As we have heard, when the report was released, the commission recommended that the next Dáil would see 174 TDs representing 43 constituencies, up from the current 160 TDs and 39 constituencies.
If I have been asked about anything over the past weeks, it is why we are increasing the number of TDs in Dáil Éireann. We need to explain this to people because it is valid for them to ask why we need 14 extra TDs. The reality is that it is in the Constitution and we have constitutional responsibilities. When we explain that to people, they realise it, but it is certainly something that is exercising the minds of people. Everywhere I went, I was asked why we need an extra 14 TDs. We have to explain to people that there are issues that we need to deal with, there is the Constitution and we need to have a certain number of people represented by each TD. With the population increasing quite rapidly, it is important that those adjustments are made. Of course, as we now see, the constitutional requirements on representation mean that each TD in a 174-seat Dáil would represent an average of 29,593 people, down from the current 32,182.
The recommendations also meet the statutory criteria set down for this review. It is only fair to say there has been a real attempt here not to have too many constituencies tied up in an electoral division. At the last election, my own area of north Roscommon was in a constituency with Sligo, Leitrim and south Donegal. It would take you a fair while to get from one end to the other in a gluaisteán and longer on a bicycle but I can tell you one thing, it would not be an easy tour. With all respect to my colleagues there, the former Minister of State, Deputy Feighan and Deputy MacSharry and Marian Harkin TD, the people represented that area and they did a good job but it is literally impossible to get around from one end of that constituency to the other. It probably cost me my seat as well, to be honest. But I am glad to see the 8,000 votes that went out of the area I represent have come back into Roscommon. Now we have a reduction in the size of the vote from Galway but we need that vote to make up the numbers. We have to be realistic about that. It is not going to be a situation of being able to put three TDs into Roscommon at the moment. In saying that, we should also look geographically at counties because Roscommon, from a rural perspective, is a hell of a long county. The biggest town in county Roscommon is just 6,500. It is very rural and for TDs to get around it is a significant difficulty. I made this recommendation to the review committee although I knew it would not be accepted. However, I am glad that it put Roscommon back as one county. That is really important.
In that regard, I must welcome the work of the commission. It is very important that we deal with it now and have it in place for the next election. There are now changes to the European situation too. In our area we have an extra seat and it is now five seats instead of four. Following the confirmation, An Coimisiún Toghcháin carried out a further review of the European Parliament constituencies and published its European Parliament constituency report 2023 on 20 November. It recommended a three-constituency configuration with Dublin to have four seats, which is unchanged; South to have five seats; and, with the transfer of Laois and Offaly to Midlands-North-West, which is the area I live in, that constituency to have five seats, which is an increase of one. The Bill, as amended in the Dáil, will also provide for the recommendation of the commission in respect of the European Parliament constituencies.
In all, it is good for our democracy. I think there is a genuine effort to tidy up the constituencies and focus them on one county, if possible. As I said, in cases such as Roscommon-Galway it is just not possible because there are not enough votes in the county of Roscommon for three TDs. I welcome this, support it fully and look forward to it moving on quickly and being in place for the next election.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Acting Chair. I will not use all of my time. I commend the work of the Electoral Commission. It is a matter of public record that Sinn Féin argued for six-seaters and to maintain county boundaries where possible but we think the Electoral Commission should be as independent as possible and I think it did a very good job.
As this Bill comes before us, I would like to raise one thing that was not in the terms of reference. The Irish language did not feature in the terms of reference for An Coimisiún Toghcháin and that should be rectified before the next report on constituency boundaries whenever they are revised. In any future redraw, constituencies should be named in the first official language of the State, particularly if we are committed to increasing and normalising use of an Ghaeilge in public life. Gaeltacht areas, in particular, are being effectively being Anglicised. We should be looking to put Gaeilge to the fore right across the country. In places like Wales, we see Welsh-only or at very least bilingual names for constituencies, while here English-only names are being created in law. We should be moving towards Gaeilge amháin where possible, and at least bilingual where necessary. Even if Irish-only names were used officially, that would not stop anyone using the English during the campaign if they wanted to. However, to comply with Article 8 of the Constitution, Irish should be accepted as the first official language. Now that this is on the record, I hope it is borne in mind for the future reports.
I will not be taking the ten minutes either. I want to raise something that was in one of the amendments. I am disappointed that they will not be accepted. I ask the Government to take another look at it and speak to the Electoral Commission. This relates to candidates’ addresses being published and the anonymity that some candidates should have. I questioned the Electoral Commission on this when it was at the housing committee last week. It seemed unwilling to move from the situation where candidates are required to publish their addresses and those addresses are required to be made publicly available. The problem is where the addresses are made publicly available. People are getting more concerned about the security of those involved in public life. As incitement to hatred is directed towards certain individuals and public debate gets more robust and, in some cases, dangerous, it is certainly putting an awful lot of people off coming into public life. This is an issue particularly for people who may be victims of domestic violence where they wish to keep their specific address private. I ask that the Minister of State look at it and that the Electoral Commission consider this. There is no reason for us not to provide for a candidate’s address to be on file but not released to the public. It could be made public that they live in a certain constituency or ward, but without their personal address being made available to people. This is a real concern for some people, particularly those who do not feel safe having their address made public. A change is essential. We are cutting off their access to public life by maintaining the current position. I ask the Minister of State to look at it, or to direct the commission to do so, and to get feedback from the wider public on how we can proceed while protecting people’s safety and addresses.
I agree with Senator Moynihan's comments about the importance of protecting people’s home addresses. The Minister of State is welcome to the House. There has been much discussion about the role of the new Electoral Commission in devising these boundaries. I will not rehash what has been said. I will be tabling amendments on Committee Stage which do not relate to the schedule but to substantive procedural issues and the ways we should look to improve the process.
We should reflect on the number of Members allocated to Dáil constituencies. The number of three-seat constituencies is being increased by four. We will now have 13 three-seat constituencies. Frankly, the Electoral Commission’s terms of reference, as set out in section 57 of the Electoral Reform Act 2022, were extremely short-sighted. Specifically, the provision in section 57(2)(b) that “each constituency shall return 3, 4 or 5 members” lacked foresight in respect of population growth and our broader goal of electing a more diverse Parliament. There were clear and concrete calls for the abolition of three-seat constituencies and allowing six-seat constituencies, but the opportunity to do this was not taken. Forthcoming research for Women for Election by Claire McGing notes that PR-STV in Irish general elections has strongly influenced candidate selection and party strategies and has had a gendered effect. She notes that while constituency magnitude does not influence women’s Dáil representation to the extent that political science literature suggests, the effect is strongly mediated by individual political party strategies. The report finds that three-seat constituencies are less favourable to women than those electing four and five Members. Ms McGing concluded that the research to be carried out by the Electoral Commission on six-seat constituencies must have a strong gender lens.
As the gender quota thresholds rise to 40% at the next general election, parties should use larger constituencies as an enabling tool for effective quota implementation, and simultaneously ensure that new women are selected to run in winnable seats and not simply to make up numbers alongside more favoured candidates. Research on constituency size needs to look at other issues, including diversity of political views, diversity of race and ethnicity, diversity in respect of disability, diversity in social class, LGBT diversity and diversity in political parties. These Houses still do not reflect or represent the experience of many and this needs to change. We need an electoral system which does not reward ingenuity in vote management, but serves as a vehicle for the expression of collective views and experiences of the public we serve. Working-class voices, Traveller voices, disabled voices, ethnic minority voices and trans voices are too few in these Houses and in many cases completely missing from them.
On Committee Stage I will table an amendment on another issue that arose in the Dáil, that is the requirement for candidates home addresses. In the same vein as Senator Moynihan, I note that there has been much talk in recent months about safety in public life, yet we still require candidates to disclose where they live. Not only are there safety concerns in this regard, there are also issues about privacy. I urge the Minister of State to amend the current requirement before the upcoming elections take place, perhaps with the requirement for Dáil candidates that the constituency a candidate lives in is named, but the home address is not listed.
I may raise more issues on Committee Stage, but the final one I raise today is the fact that we are reforming both Dáil and European constituencies but are yet, after many years of delay by successive Governments, to implement meaningful reform in this House and a constituency franchise. The Minister has brought proposals to the Cabinet to legislate in light of the Supreme Court ruling on the seventh amendment to the Constitution. On the basis of the information in the public domain, however, it seems the Government is opting for a minimalist approach that is not true to the spirit of either the 1979 referendum or the 2013 referendum. The Seanad Bill 2020, which was sponsored by my colleagues, Senators Higgins and McDowell, is agreed cross-party legislation, which would give every citizen a vote in Seanad elections regardless of whether they have a third level qualification or not. I urge the Minister of State, between now and Committee Stage, to reflect on the issues I raised today. The Civil Engagement Group has engaged throughout the process of the establishment of the Electoral Commission and we will make submissions to the commission research programme, but we also need engagement from the Minister of State on those amendments between now and Committee Stage.
I welcome the Minister of State. I congratulate the Electoral Commission on its work and the news of the report as well as on the secrecy it maintained. While there were rumours, many of which were not accurate, we did not see comprehensive leaks in the newspapers, which is unusual. I suspected that there would be something at least in the Sunday papers in advance of the Monday or Tuesday morning - I do not remember which it was. Well done to the Commission on that.
I take this opportunity to thank the voters and members of Fine Gael in the area of south Mayo that is part of the Galway West constituency, where I was elected in 2016. I also thank them for their support in 2020. They indulged us because they were not happy - and I understand that - to be part of the Galway constituency. I remember canvassing at a house just over the border in Mayo. When I said I was canvassing I was asked where I was from. When I said I was from Galway, I was told I was in Mayo. I said I knew that but that it was part of the Galway West constituency. I was then asked about Michael Ring and explained that he was running in the Mayo constituency, to which the person responded "But this is Mayo". I acknowledge that there was a little confusion. They are back where they want to be, namely, in the Mayo constituency.
As part of our submission, we talked about the naming of constituencies. To have any inclusion, the names of counties should be included. Roscommon-Galway includes both names and there are other examples, such as Carlow-Kilkenny, which includes the full County Carlow in it. Why is the north-west part of the Minister of State's county, Kilkenny, not included in the new name for the Tipperary North constituency? If we are trying to encourage people to vote, they should at least be able recognise the name of the constituency. The commission is independent. The chair of the commission said on the radio that the name of the constituency would not exactly roll off the tongue. What does that matter? It makes no sense that we are encouraging people to vote and they are voting in Kilkenny in the constituency of Tipperary North. Similarly, in the case of south Donegal, what is wrong with the name Sligo-Leitrim-Donegal South? It might get more complicated if Roscommon were also included in it, but I do not see why the county names cannot be included. Perhaps it should be an absolute requirement, when the next boundary review comes around, that county names are included in constituency names.
The commission is independent. That does not mean we cannot criticise it or disagree with some of its recommendations. For example, I do not understand why Galway West will have a population of 30,059 per TD and Galway East will have 28,314 voters per TD. I wonder why that was not balanced to make it closer to 29,000 each. Why was the opportunity not taken by the commission to look at that? It is a simple thing that does not make sense because there is a higher variance of minus 4% in one and it is plus 1% in the other. I assumed that would be done.
It also strikes me that when a small bit is taken out of county and citizens, voters and political parties are not happy about it, they will immediately start a campaign for the next commission to reverse it. It will perhaps become obvious that it will be reversed if the mathematics allow. That reduces representation. If TDs know that the small bit of a county is likely to be removed from the constituency at the next election, they might be less likely to serve it. I would be concerned about that if small bits and pieces are being taken out. Perhaps six-seater constituencies would allow for some more discretion. The question is whether to stop at six seats. Why not have seven-seat constituencies? Perhaps six seats would be final and might make sense. I do not know, but I have concerns.
I am also concerned about some of the decisions made. When looking at the maps, I was immediately struck by the fact that the town of Mallow - but not its hinterland - was taken out of Cork. That would immediately impact on the sitting Labour Party TD in the area, who I texted at the time. I wonder whether it is fair to take a town but not the hinterland. It is the same with Enniscorthy. The line is just above it. The constituency should include either the northern or southern hinterland because the hinterland serves the town and vice versa. There is a connection between the two. If a line is drawn just above Enniscorthy, you are not getting fair representation. The commission looked at a number of issues. It has been said that it is all a question of maths and ratios and so forth, but there should be some recognition of the relationships between towns and their surrounding areas to give some chance. The urban areas of some towns have been moved into a constituency and their rural areas left out and shoved in with another area. Those are some of my points on this Bill. I respect the commission's independence, but in future some of the points I raised about names and relationships could be taken on board.
I thank the Senators for their contributions. Before closing, I will respond to some of the points they raised.
The overarching thing I will say relates to the point made by Senator Boyhan on the draft research programme and the 12 January deadline. We might be able to write submissions with the Christmas pudding. It is important. I cannot stress how important it is that political parties and individual members of the public bring forward submissions because it is broad. There is a stream called the blue sky stream of research that the commission is proposing. It is all hugely significant and important. Any of the points raised by Senators could certainly be addressed in the draft research programme. The commission could give consideration to them as it finalises its research programme for the next few years.
Specifically, Senators raised the issue of three-, four- and five-seater constituencies. That was the decision that was made. The commission and Ms Justice Baker have given a commitment to reviewing that in the next research programme, not least in respect of six-seaters. Some Deputies raised in the Dáil the issue of capping the number of TDs, and it was noted that our country is growing at a population increase of two TDs per year, so at some point we will have to give consideration to how that is managed and look at other jurisdictions in that regard.
I thank Senator Cummins for his positive comments on the commission and its impartiality. That is sacrosanct, and it is very important that it not be questioned. The commission is already proving its worth.
I accept the points raised by Senator Ruane and others regarding three-seater constituencies. As a member of a smaller party, I agree in the sense that with four-, five- and six-seaters, there is greater diversity and greater opportunities, but there is also an onus on political parties to ensure gender balance in their candidate selection and to provide supports for women and minority candidates to get them elected. That is important too.
Senators Moynihan and Ruane both raised the important issue of candidates' addresses in light of the significant challenges in that regard. I know, at least from our party’s perspective, that for any potential candidates who would consider running, when they have seen events unfold in recent weeks and months and online, they would be fearful of having their address published. Guidance is provided, however, by the Department to returning officers in advance of elections and it states that a candidate's address may not necessarily need to relate to their residence. It could, for example, be their place of business or a constituency office, and a certain vagueness can be applied to that. I have given a commitment in the Dáil, during the discussions on this, that-----
I am sorry to interrupt but if you have never been elected, you will have not a constituency office.
Yes, but the commission will be able to offer guidance to returning officers. Addresses can be quite vague. It could be listed, for instance, as Swords, County Dublin. It does not necessarily need to be a specific address. Again, to give assurance on that, we have given a commitment to trying to change the legislative element of that, but the commission will issue guidance to returning officers such that when a candidate is registering, they do not have to be as specific about their home address. I met representatives of Women for Election a number of weeks ago and gave that assurance as well. This is an important issue and we are taking it on board.
A number of points were raised about the naming of constituencies. I know Tipperary North with north-west Kilkenny might not roll off the tongue but, again, these are issues that could be considered in the research programme that has been raised by Deputies as well as by Senators during this debate.
On the general issue of representation, I stress the point about representation at a local level. We are talking about the hinterland, where our councillors are still very important in terms of the representation of their electoral areas. I know it is not the same, but they play an important role.
I again thank the Senators who contributed on Second Stage. Based on the contributions I have heard, there is a general appreciation of the need to respect the independence of the newly established Electoral Commission, An Coimisiún Toghcháin, and to accept the recommendations of the commission's report without change. The Bill, when enacted, will bring Dáil constituencies into line with population change, as ascertained in census 2022, and will ensure the requirements as set out in Article 16.2 of the Constitution have been met by the Oireachtas in full. As Senators will be aware and as I mentioned in my contribution, the constitutional requirement is for the total number of Members of Dáil Éireann to be no less than one member for each 30,000 of population and no more than one member for each 20,000. The Constitution also requires that there be the same ratio of representation in constituencies throughout the country, insofar as this is practical. Senators may be aware that An Coimisiún Toghcháin published its draft research programme recently. In the draft programme, the commission sets out its intention to carry out research into the issue of representation and the manner in which the overall number of TDs is determined in the context of the rising population and the current constitutional and legal provisions in this area. I look forward to the outcome of this work, as I am sure we all do.
While some could argue it may have been possible for the commission to suggest alternative solutions to those recommended in its report, the process itself is independent in its application, takes cognisance of the views of interested parties via a consultative process and, ultimately, is designed to ensure Dáil constituencies will fully comply with the requirements of the Constitution. I appreciate that some of the commission's recommendations may give rise to concerns for those who may be directly affected by the changes proposed. As Senator Boyhan noted, there are winners and losers throughout the country. There will always be swings and roundabouts, however, following a constituency revision. All we can do is ensure that the best arrangements, insofar as is practicable, will have regard to the legal imperatives of the Constitution and the statutory requirements prescribed in our electoral Acts. I thank the chair and the members of An Coimisiún Toghcháin for completing for what was, I am sure, a huge task for them and the body's first big challenge since its establishment. I look forward to further consideration on Committee Stage of the specific provisions of the Bill.
Question put and agreed to.
When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?
Next Tuesday.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 12.17 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 1.17 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 12.17 p.m. and resumed at 1.17 p.m.