We are back in public session. The next item on our agenda is the Supplementary Estimate for Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I thank the Minister for the briefing material provided. This has been circulated to the members. While the committee has no role in approving Estimates, there is an opportunity for it to make the process more transparent and to engage in a meaningful way on relevant performance issues. I call the Minister to make his opening statement.
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Supplementary Estimate)
I will keep my contribution relatively brief, particularly as quite a lot is happening today. I welcome the opportunity to be with the select committee to discuss the Supplementary Estimate for 2023. I am joined by Marguerite Ryan, assistant secretary, corporate and business support, and Sinead Kehoe, finance officer. They will be assisting us this afternoon.
In February, I met with the committee and discussed the 2023 Estimate for my Department in the round. I again thank the members for their engagement at that meeting. I will keep these remarks as brief as I can in the interests of time.
The Estimate I set before the committee in February detailed the Department's budget for this year and totalled more than €5.9 billion for year's end, comprising €2.8 billion in current funding and €3.5 billion in capital funding. This was supplemented by €340 million in capital carryover from 2022. Additionally, my Department's housing programmes have benefited this year from non-Exchequer funding of €168 million made available from the proceeds of the local property tax. This represents a substantial element of the overall Government expenditure in 2023 and is instrumental in funding core areas of activity under the remit of my Department, particularly housing, water, local government and heritage.
The Supplementary Estimate before the committee today covers substantive and additional funding and a reallocation of funding within my Department's existing resources. Briefly, the substantive elements of the Supplementary Estimate include €113 million in programme A, housing, and €33.2 million in programme C, local government. The technical elements of the Supplementary Estimate include €339 million for programme A, housing, and €21 million for programme F, heritage, for the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS.
I will go into these allocations in a little bit more detail. Regarding the housing element, budget 2023 has made significant funding available for housing delivery in line with the targets set out in Housing for All. Following the very challenging situation during Covid-19 and the new challenges around cost delivery that emerged in 2022, I assure members that my Department continues to work very closely with delivery partners to increase delivery in 2023, and beyond, in all other areas of expenditure as well.
For the information of the committee, because the members may not have seen that the commencement notices for October 2023 were published at 2 p.m., we had 2,624 new homes commenced in October, an increase of 42.5% on October 2022. This means just over 26,500 homes were commenced in the first ten months of this year, which is a record. This speaks to the progress being made with regard to the initiatives the Government has brought forward on housing delivery.
In April, we approved a package of new measures to address the housing supply shortage and to supplement the actions of the Housing for All policy. These measures, along with the existing and amended measures, impact capital and current expenditure. They are providing the necessary drivers and resources to continue to increase housing output. Two examples, which I am sure we will go into in further detail, are the secure tenancy affordable rental, STAR, investment scheme and the significant changes we made to the cost-rent equity loan, CREL, scheme. This latter scheme has seen a significant increase in applications and this is also one of the reasons for this Supplementary Estimate and the reallocation of funds.
There are very clear indications that we are going to meet our housing target for 2023 and actually exceed it. However, while the supply is ramping up, we still have the more immediate issue of provision for the most vulnerable in our society, those who do not have a home at all and who are being supported by the State in emergency accommodation. While progressing the long-term goal of having a sustainable housing supply to address our housing needs is crucially important, we must also ensure we have the resources in place to look after those who do not have a home and are in homeless emergency accommodation. This is a large part of this Supplementary Estimate.
The housing element of this Supplementary Estimate is focused on substantive additional funding, as I mentioned, for accommodation for homelessness and for the social housing current expenditure programme, SHCEP. Additional supply is being supported through the reallocation of funds to the capital assistance scheme, CAS, in respect of Traveller accommodation, where I am glad to see additional funding is required because the capital provided here is being expended again this year, private housing grants and the Housing Agency land acquisition fund, which has been incredibly successful and helps us to build our future land bank. On voids and planned maintenance, there is additional funding for the CREL scheme and the new STAR investment scheme I mentioned already.
I provided an advance briefing for members through my Department in respect of each of these aspects. As a result, I am not going to go into each element in the opening statement, but I will focus on a few areas in particular. The main priority area is, obviously, homelessness. Funding under section 10 of the Housing Act 1988 is essential to ensure that local authorities are in a position to deliver critical services to households experiencing homelessness. The vast majority of local authority expenditure is on the provision of emergency accommodation, but a range of other essential services are also provided through Housing First supports, homeless prevention day services, supports to households and emergency accommodation and tenancy sustainment measures. The increased expenditure in the context of section 10 is mainly driven by the increased spending on providing emergency accommodation, which, in turn, is driven by the increased cost of accommodation and the increase in the numbers of people being supported.
As already noted, the Department is focused on accelerating social and affordable housing supply through a combination of new builds together with some targeted acquisitions and leasing supports. In the shorter term, however, we must ensure that all who require shelter receive it and this expenditure will fund this essential accommodation.
Turning to CAS, this important funding programme is one of the main sources in the Department's Vote to fund approved housing bodies, AHBs, to provide for the construction and acquisition of homes for priority categories and also support delivery in emerging areas of housing need and the provision of emergency accommodation for single homeless individuals. As a result of very strong activity in the year to date, additional funding of €80 million is being reallocated from within the housing capital programme and this will assist with approximately 800 units of accommodation being delivered this year. The existing pipeline of approved CAS construction projects is very strong for 2024 and 2025.
Last year, the members of the committee will recall that I secured approval to introduce the Housing for All land acquisition fund, and we allocated €125 million to the Housing Agency to establish that fund. This was about building up our land banks and it is specifically focused on social housing. As I mentioned at the start, there has been very strong engagement on this measure, with sites valued at €85 million having been approved for site acquisition and sites valued at approximately €35 million now being evaluated for acquisition. It is also encouraging to see that the fund has approved sites for development by approved housing bodies. We also wanted to ensure this happened, and, so far, this will deliver 500 new-build homes.
The provision of sites for AHBs under a longer-term leasing model is important to ensure local authorities can direct the types and locations of homes being delivered by AHBs in a greater collaboration between the AHBs and the local authorities. The Housing Agency has indicated to me that all the funds allocated in that context will be fully committed in the first quarter of next year. This will be within a matter of a few months. In light of the performance of the fund to date in addressing local authority land requirements, and in some instances, quite a severe deficit of development land, in addition to supporting the strategic objective of increasing AHB construction, from the ground up, I have approved the allocation of an additional €114 million to the land acquisition fund to continue activity in 2024.
Very importantly, to continue to broaden the scope of the fund, €50 million of that will be for affordable housing delivery. On the cost-rental equity loan, members will know that I recently approved more than €424 million since 1 November to support the delivery of more than 1,650 cost-rental homes by AHBs. These are large, significant developments. The increase in the number of cost-rental home approvals shows that the changes we made to the cost-rental equity loan in the summer of this year are having the desired effect. Taking into account the additional applications coming in every week and the ones that we recently approved, with the increased crowdfunding and extending accelerated crowdfunding, additional funding of €60 million is required this year to deal with that increased demand to ensure these cost-rental homes are delivered. That is a very good thing. The majority of the crowdfunded delivery in Drogheda is targeted towards December. Increased funding will be required to allow for increased delivery of cost-rental homes this year, 2023, and to increase the delivery pipeline between 2024 and 2026.
I was very pleased to launch the new initiative of the secure tenancy affordable rental, STAR, investment scheme, during the summer, which is a key action in the updated Housing for All plan. Increased supply of cost-rental units at scale is crucial to improve the conditions in the housing rental market. It is a very popular form of tenure and it has been oversubscribed substantially for every development that we have advertised. That shows the demand that is there and we have got to try to meet it. That was the purpose of bringing in STAR as well. The scheme aims to bring forward cost-rental units at rent levels that are more affordable, a minimum of 25% below market value with secure tenure, in the main for 50 years, and sometimes longer. The scheme will assist eligible households in the private rental sector that are unable to attain housing in current market conditions and are experiencing acute affordability pressures in the private rental sector, particularly in urban areas and in cities. As this measure is new and because it was not provided for earlier on this year, a technical Supplementary Estimate is required to fund what we will spend on STAR this year. I am estimating that to be €60 million. We have 20 applications in under the scheme, which came in just at the end of July. We have four or five schemes that have moved to the next stage, which will be fully approved, and we expect drawdown in that regard this year.
Turning quickly to the local government element to the Supplementary Estimate, it is focused mainly on key areas to support local authorities in delivering the critical services they provide at a local level and across each of the areas of local government. I am confident and content that the additional funding will provide much needed support to local authorities to enable them to continue to deliver their services for the remainder of this year. As members know, the country has experienced higher than normal periods of rainfall from early July, saturating the ground throughout the country. Rivers are also at high levels and following three particular storms that all members will be aware of - Babet, Ciarán and Debi – to date, much of the country has experienced some level of localised flooding. The most acute flooding has been in the south, east and west. Members will be aware that the Departments of Social Protection and Enterprise, Trade and Employment provide funds for homeowners and for businesses for the effect of flooding. There is no specific line item for local government to assist it in the additional costs that local authorities bear and have borne because of these weather events. An estimated figure of €12 million is sought to meet the exceptional unbudgeted costs of the local authorities most severely impacted. That is based on the widespread nature and scale of the damage to date.
I will refer to a couple of specifics. I welcome the transfer of Shannon Heritage sites from the Shannon Group to Limerick City and County Council and to Clare County Council. That has happened over 2022 and 2023 and it is good that they are directly back under the control of the local authorities. I am pleased to support these transfers, which will secure the future of these important sites and realise their full potential, as well as complementing and augmenting the tourism offering in the mid-west region. Members will see in the briefing that there is additional funding provided for those specific sites, including King John's Castle in Limerick.
I will explain stranded costs. The Supplementary Estimate will provide funding towards water sector transformation costs in 2024. This transformation represents significant reform of our water services. As members know, our objective here is to deliver a world-class publicly owned water services authority. We are on course to deliver that. Progress is being made and a very significant milestone was reached this year when we concluded agreement with the unions on water transformation - a single publicly owned utility under Uisce Éireann. We are seeing the transfer of plans happening right across the country. I thank the unions for their very constructive engagement on this process that I was directly involved in. It is good to be able to see us move forward with this. By 2026, effectively, Uisce Éireann will have assumed full responsibility for water services delivery. That is why we are here speaking about stranded costs this afternoon. The majority of these costs relate to water services, central management charges, CMCs, for which local authorities will have no source of funding. It is essential to ensure their budgets are balanced and they can provide the services. In 2024, we will continue to fund payroll costs for those staff. The CMCs are central corporate costs. They relate to HR, finance, IT and buildings and they cannot be directly related to a particular service. They form a very significant part of the delivery of services. CMCs are embedded in local authority budgets for 2024. Other stranded costs relate to staff who currently work less than 50% of their time on water services and are not eligible to transfer to Uisce Éireann.
I briefly want to mention retained fire services. As members will see, this year we are seeking to provide an additional €8 million for local authorities to fund the first phase of the implementation of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, agreement that will support much needed improvements to work-life balance and pay for retained firefighters and for retained fire services right across the country. I directed the management board of the National Directorate for Fire and Emergency Management to review the delivery and the sustainability of the local authority retained fire services, with a particular emphasis on recruitment of new personnel and retention of existing personnel by improving the pay and conditions and work-life balance that I mentioned. The Government has always recognised the challenges in this space and that is why I sought the report and recommendations on the retained fire services and why I immediately got to work with the Department on these recommendations. There was intensive consultation between my Department, the Local Government Management Agency, and, importantly, the union representatives over the summer. Thankfully, we are now in a position to move forward with better pay and conditions, as I always said I would do. I will continue to advocate for additional advances in the national pay talks. Because we were implementing those improvements in this year, there will be approximately €8 million worth of additional costs. Approximately €28 million will be provided for next year as well.
I will conclude by referring to the heritage elements of the Supplementary Estimate. The aim of the programme is to conserve and manage Ireland's heritage for the benefit of current and future generations. The investment, through the 2023 Estimate, will allow us to accelerate planned investment, particularly in the area of strategic land purchases and to support visitor services, the removal of invasive species and nature conservation work in all of Ireland's 78 national park and nature reserve locations, as outlined in the strategic plan.
Of particular note was the purchase of the 552 acre world heritage lands at Dowth Hall and demesne, including Netterville, in County Meath. The purchase of that is falling entirely in the 2023 costs, so we must provide for it in this year. That was an opportunity that could not be missed. It is only the seventh national park in the country, and the first in the north east of the country, the Brú na Bóinne National Park, which is very significant.
In 2023, we completed several major projects. There is an additional €21 million for heritage in that space, not all of it is for that purchase but a sizeable portion of it, approximately €11 million, is provided for it in this year's accounts. We have completed other projects, including car parking facilities at major parks, restoration work on many buildings, including the restoration of famine cottages in Wild Nephin National Park, the work on the glasshouses at Muckross House, and the general repairs and maintenance of trails and facilities that arise from poor weather conditions.
The supplementary allocation will allow for strategic investment in building and improving our capacity, with significant benefits arising from initiatives such as providing and improving staff facilities and updating our ageing fleet of vehicles.
I have tried to keep my remarks as brief as possible while covering the main points of the Supplementary Estimate. Of course, I will be happy to deal with matters that members wish to raise. If we do not have the answers today, which I expect we will have, we will certainly revert to committee members. I thank members for their time and attention.
We will go to the members. I call Deputy McAuliffe.
I have just come from the Committee of Public Accounts so I will allow the rotation and I will come back in later.
In that case, I call Deputy Ó Broin.
I thank the Minister and his staff for the briefing notes and explanation. I have a lot of questions about where the money is going and I might come back to some of those in the second round. The first thing I want to look at is where the money has come from. On the Revised Estimates sheet that we have been given, of the €586 million in additional money, €432 million is coming from what are called “savings on subheads”. I presume “savings on subheads” means money that was allocated to subheads in the revenue estimate that is not going to be spent on the relevant subheads and, therefore, is being redistributed. That would mean they are underspends. I am interested to know exactly which subhead that €432.9 million is coming from because it is not at all clear from the sheet in front of us. Where that money is being underspent, does that mean certain things that were to be delivered with that money now will not be? That is the first question, and I will have a few supplementaries on that issue as we proceed.
There are additional moneys of about €146 million.
I am going to come back to that and I have queries around that.
I am just putting my answer in context. It is important that the committee knows that there is additional funding coming into the Department and that the vast bulk of that will be for homeless services. If we look, for argument’s sake, at the reallocation to the capital acquisitions scheme, CAS, we can provide the exact amounts and they are detailed in the capital amounts here. We have reallocated within it. To take the tenant in situ scheme as an example, we set a target of 1,500 for this year and we are going to exceed that target this year, so there will be accelerated spend there. With regard to STAR, there is €60 million that we did not provide for. There is also additional spend with regard to CREL, which is real delivery, and the land acquisition fund because that has been expended.
What we are looking at on the capital decrease side is that what is across A3 stays within A3. On local authority housing, we will exceed our output of last year quite substantially and we intend to be very close to exceeding, if not actually exceeding, our social housing output this year as well. This is a reallocation within the housing subhead as opposed to taking anything out of housing. For argument’s sake, we can take affordable housing at subhead A31. On affordable housing direct build, it is very important that we are able to allocate moneys and we are allocating €50 million from there to the land acquisition fund, although the land acquisition fund heretofore did not provide for the purchase of lands for affordable housing. All of it remains within the housing subhead and it is being reallocated within that.
On social housing in particular, we will have a very strong outturn. I do not have the quarter 3 figures verified yet but I take it the Deputy will be asking me about that too, so I wanted to say that. However, quarter 4 will be very significant for delivery. We are about €500 million ahead of spend compared to this time last year.
That is all very interesting and some of it is what I would have come to, but it does not answer the first question. Again, I want to come to those other issues because they are important. There is within housing, at head A, an underspend of €432 million, which the Minister is then reallocating within the subhead, which I accept. We do not have the REV broken down by each individual subhead and we are trying to get that at the moment. What I want to know is this: for that €432 million, which specific subheads are the underspends under? That is the first question. I am sure Ms Ryan has the list in front of her.
I have the list here myself.
It is not a trick question. It is just a run-through as to which subhead and how much of an underspend on each.
All of this remains within A, within housing. On local authority housing, there will be a real allocation from the direct build from the local authorities. There will be a reallocation on the mortgage to rent-----
My apologies, the very first question, and it honestly is not a trick question, is this: in each of the revenue subheads, there is a portion of underspending which the Minister is now reallocating. What I am asking is where the non-spending is taking place.
I was just going through it before the Deputy came back in, so he might let me do that. I will go specifically through each of the items that have been reallocated. The Deputy knows where we are reallocating to. On local authority housing, there will be a reallocation.
Is there an underspend on that? That is what I am asking.
We have not outspent. The last quarter is obviously a very heavy quarter for housing delivery, so we have to be aware of that too. I cannot be too specific with the Deputy but I am telling him-----
The Minister does have-----
I am going to tell the Deputy where we are going to reallocate from. Just let me conclude this and he can come back in.
To look at A3 on local authority housing and A10 on mortgage to rent, and there will be a very small reallocation on housing for people with disabilities and older people-----
Which subhead is that?
It is A14. For A15, again, there is a very small adjustment there.
Which is A15?
Do you not have that?
Our problem is that we are not given the REV.
I know that. A15 is estate regeneration and refurbishment, for which there is a small reallocation. There will be an underspend in regard to defective home remediation.
Is that A17?
That is A22.
What about A17?
That is the repair and lease scheme, which is minute. For argument’s take, I want to go back to where we are increasing. As I mentioned, there will be a reallocation within the affordable housing fund to the land fund so we can buy land for affordable housing. There will be a reallocation from the Croí Cónaithe fund. We have got our first three Croí Cónaithe schemes out and there will be a reallocation within that because of drawdown, which is a matter the Deputy keeps going on about, and that is because we only pay grants when the work is included. They all stay within housing. Where do they go? The capital-----
I am out of time. I just want to repeat the question because I am going to come back to it. I want to come back to where the money has gone because I have questions on that and the Minister still has not told us. What I want to know is how much the underspend is within each of those heads and what that otherwise would have been spent on. For example, on A3, local authority housing, what I seem to be hearing, although it is not clear, is that a portion of money was allocated in the revenue for 2023 under A3. Some of that money is now being reallocated. I want to know how much and, therefore, what it is not going to be spent or what was the original intention.
I understand the point. I will come back in on the supplementaries.
I am out of time but I will come back in on the second round.
My questions are in a similar vein. Under subhead A3, local authority housing, last year the underspend was €237 million in the Supplementary Estimate.
Excuse me, I am afraid I missed that. I ask the Deputy to start again.
That is no problem. Under subhead A3, local authority housing, last year the underspend was €237 million in the Supplementary Estimate. This year, my read of it is that it is €220 million. Is that correct?
It will be in that region. It is being redistributed.
Does it not say €220 million?
It does, but we still have the last period.
I understand. It is an estimate.
Exactly, because we still have the rest of November and December and the last two months, in particular, are very strong months for claims to come in and for moneys to be spent. The Deputy should remember that this is on a multi-annual basis too, so we have carryover from last year into this year. What I will say very clearly is that there will be no surrender this year. The spend is very strong. This year, we are €500 million ahead of where we were last year.
It is worth saying that the Estimates last year were relatively accurate in this regard, were they not? The €237 million underspend last year, when these Estimates came in, was held to, was it not? It was accurate, so there is no reason-----
They are Estimates. That is what we are here for: Estimates.
Exactly, but the Estimates have been relatively accurate so there is no reason to expect otherwise. Between the two years, that is almost €500 million in underspend under subhead A3, local authority housing, at a time of unprecedented numbers of homeless people living in emergency accommodation and record numbers of children growing up without a home. Why is here such a high level of underspend year after year on local authority housing and building social homes? What is the Minister doing about it? How come, given this came up last year and we asked what the Minister would do about it, we are in the same situation this year? There was a €237 million underspend last year and now we are looking at a €220 million underspend in local authority social housing provision. How come we are in the same situation 12 months later?
We are actually not in the same situation. I take the Deputy’s point but a number of stakeholders deliver social housing. The reallocation to CAS is significant. There is €80 million additional to CAS because we are looking at where we can deliver homes this year and where the pipeline is coming through. In some local authorities there has been slower delivery while others will exceed targets. We do not have the final figures. It is an estimate.
A case in point is CAS under subhead A7. There is an additional €80 million going in there, which is for delivery of social homes. Traveller accommodation is small but still important. Additional moneys are going in there also. The subhead for planned maintenance and voids is about bringing additional stock back in this year. We are allocating €15 million for those social homes. We set ourselves overall exacting targets for this year on social housing delivery and I project we will deliver significantly more than last year. We will get close to target, if not exceed it.
I have a question on CAS, the Housing Agency land acquisition fund and the budgetary process on the housing budget. Last year’s Supplementary Estimate was €125 million for the land acquisition fund. This year, am I correct there was no allocation in the budget for that fund?
There was.
How much was it?
Last December, €125 million was transferred to the Housing Agency and-----
Yes, in the Supplementary Estimate.
The Housing Agency, as I said in my opening statement, has informed me that in quarter 1 – literally in a matter of months – €85 million has been effectively spent and €35 million-----
I heard that in the Minister's opening----
Then I do not understand. I am saying to the Deputy that-----
In the budget for 2023, apart from the Supplementary Estimate, was there funding for the land acquisition fund?
We first had to see what the demand was. It is the first time we have done this where we are purchasing land for local authorities and AHBs. That has been heavily subscribed and taken away a lot of the burden from the local authorities of purchasing good development land. We have €85 million approved, €35 million is being assessed and it will all be spent in quarter 1. I want to continue that. The majority, or €60 million of the €114 million, is to purchase land for social housing delivery and €50 million is to purchase land for affordable housing.
I will go to three subheads to point this out. Last year's Supplementary Estimate for the land acquisition fund was for €125 million. This year, there is another Supplementary Estimate for €114 million-----
Because it has been very successful.
Absolutely, but the Minister is effectively repeating this year the Supplementary Estimates of last year. Why is he not doing this in the budgetary process proper?
I might come back to the Deputy in the supplementary-----
I will give two other examples. Under the subhead on accommodation for homelessness, A13, there is an allocation of €102 million. The original budget this year was for €215 million. That will be a total spend this year of €317 million on homelessness, yet the budget for next year does not reflect the €317 million figure; it is just €242 million. We will almost definitely have another Supplementary Estimate next year on accommodation for homelessness. For CAS there is €80 million, similar to the Supplementary Estimate from last year. Why is the Minister underbudgeting in these areas and then coming back with a Supplementary Estimate towards the end of the year? Why not get the budgeting process relatively correct at the start? It is a similar pattern each year.
First, the land acquisition fund was established last year so we had to make sure through the Housing Agency there would be demand for it, which there was. It was appropriate to do that. It was allocated last December, transferred to the Housing Agency and will spend out by quarter 1. We have found through that process that there are additional lands and, particularly, strong demands from our AHBs. Let us consider what the impact of this will be. We are purchasing the land for the AHBs, social and affordable housing and our local authorities, so we are taking that land cost out. It is not just on the resourcing. We are actually paying for that land, which will have the effect of reducing the build cost because the land cost is out. That was the right thing to do, because it is a new fund, in order to see how it would work, how it would be administered and, importantly, even though there was projected demand, to see what would happen out there and what sales would conclude. It has been very successful. That should be welcomed. We knew we needed to increase the land banks we have to develop across the country. We have done that.
On homeless services, I was clear on budget day on this. We have seen a significant increase in those accessing homeless emergency accommodation for various reasons. All of us agree those people need to be supported for as long a time as necessary, though hopefully it is a short time in emergency accommodation. We will spend €300 million this year and that is not just down to the increase in numbers but to the substantially increased cost of providing that accommodation. I said on budget day our allocation for next year will be approximately €242 million, that we would review that this year and that if we require additional funds in mid-year, we would get them. All the NGOs and service providers are acutely aware of that. My desire is to see the numbers decrease. Thankfully, we are seeing significantly more people exiting homelessness now. I will dig out the exact figures and come back to the Deputy in the supplementary replies. From quarter 1 to quarter 3 this year, more than 2,000 adults exited. That was 16% up on last year. There were approximately 2,500 preventions in that period too, 26% up on the year before. Any additional resources, if they are required this year to provide funding for emergency accommodation, will be provided exactly as I have done this year.
The reason CAS has increased further is we brought through new initiatives like the purchase of home with tenant in situ, which has been successful after a slow start. That is a heavy additional spend. There is reallocation within cost rental. All Deputies here support the delivery of cost rental. Because of the changes we have made, we have to bring forward a Supplementary Estimate because of the demand for new cost-rental projects. That is a good thing. STAR did not exist but it opened 27 July for applications. We estimate we will spend €60 million this year on a scheme that only came in five months ago. That is a very good outturn. That is one of the reasons we have to bring forward Supplementary Estimates. We have to be allowed flexibility in our Vote to look at where delivery streams are stronger, how we can support them and where we need to provide additional funding.
One of the things we wanted to see when we passed the legislation and delivered Housing for All was delivery. Some of the frustration around underspend stems from the desire to deliver what was intended in the legislation. I know from speaking to the Dublin housing delivery group and our local authorities that work is being done on all the vast array of schemes and different models of delivery. Will the Minister take us through some areas where he believes large delivery of public housing might be taking place, and the indicative timelines for those?
Sure. As I said in response to previous questioners, we will have very strong social housing delivery this year.
It will be a record year for delivery as regards new schemes that have come forward. Taking cost rental for argument's sake, since the start of November we have approved an additional 1,650 homes and they are large-scale developments in our cities. There are apartment developments. I will not mention specific areas but we will publish that shortly once the contracts are signed. We will see sites commence, and some have already commenced. We are looking at developments in our cities of hundreds of really good-quality cost-rental and social apartments. We were able to get them due to the changes we made to the cost-rental equity loan, CREL, increasing the cost-rental equity loan facility but also bringing that equity piece further. It has helped to unlock developments, particularly in areas where planning permissions were paused. The State is investing in them to deliver safe, secure, affordable rents for working people. Also, the changes we made to the net income limits - in Dublin it is €66,000 and outside of Dublin it is €59,000 - have meant that more people are able to access it. We are looking at very significant apartment delivery now. Schemes have been approved and will be announced in the next number of weeks. For some of them, we partnered with tier 3 housing bodies and ones that all of the Deputies here will be familiar with. This is a very good thing because we are delivering apartments for the first time.
I am interested in a particular site in my own area near Charlestown. Fingal County Council has mooted that it would have some involvement in it. Does the Minister have any update on the mix there and what the likely offering will be?
Charlestown is a very significant apartment development that is part of the new round of schemes we have approved. It will be 50% cost rental and 50% social housing. There will be a really good mix there. That is a very significant apartment development. We have also managed to get our first three Croí Cónaithe schemes going, which were apartments for purchase. There are two in Cork - one, in Blackrock, will be the largest apartment scheme in Cork in 15 years, with 240 apartments in one development, and the other will be in Douglas. There will be another scheme in Glencairn in Dublin, and there is more to come with that as well.
That is one method of delivery. The other one is those sites that are owned by local authorities. The local authority is delivering affordable purchase properties on a large number of sites in the Ballymun area, and I welcome that. I am concerned about the Ballymun shopping centre site, which inevitably will have a significant housing element to it, because the retail will be on the ground floor and we have scope for multiple storeys there. I do not see any development from the local authority side on that. I really think we need to be looking at an alternative vehicle to try to deliver on a site that is really a prime site.
It is a very prominent site and is very desirable also. I have discussed this directly with the Land Development Agency, LDA, and asked it to scope that out. We need more delivery for affordable purchase or affordable cost rental in particular areas. There will be another significant site in Cromcastle, which is close to the Deputy and he has advocated for, and there are more in Fingal too. The LDA will deliver significant developments and housing completions this year. Shanganagh will continue. Barnageeragh in Skerries will be getting on site very soon as well.
Across all the different initiatives, we are seeing a substantial increase in momentum. That is borne out, again, in the commencement figures I mentioned to Deputies this morning. We have seen a 42% year-on-year increase in October commencements. Part of that is driven by the development levy waiver to make schemes that were not viable viable. Part of it is due to the momentum that is being built up within the sector. We are still very focused on affordable housing delivery through our local authorities. That is why the allocation within this subhead to provide €50 million to purchase lands for affordable housing delivery is very important. More than 60 schemes with local authorities have been approved already to deliver 4,500 affordable purchase homes. South Dublin County Council has started the most significant local authority cost-rental-led scheme as well. We are doing all of this while having a high-cost environment out there. Funding costs are much higher because of interest rate increases, in development funding as well. That is why the State needs to be involved and why we need schemes such as secure tenancy affordable rental, STAR, and the Croí Cónaithe cities scheme. We need to continue with the CREL changes we have made. That is why we made the reallocation for quite a significant additional spend for cost-rental homes.
I thank the Minister. I may have to go to the Dáil shortly.
I thank Deputy McAuliffe. I will take my question slot now. I thank the Minister for presenting the Supplementary Estimates. One of the things we always try to get across is how many houses we have built in a year. It is not like we start every single house in January and have to finish it by December. Of course this is a rolling process and depends on when we start. Will the Minister confirm the figures he mentioned in his opening statement with regard to commencements for October? Was it 2,624?
Is the figure for this year so far 26,600?
I can give those figures now.
I just want them for my own notes.
The number of commencement notices for October was 2,624. That was an increase of 42.5% on the number of new homes commenced in the same month last year. That brings us to a rolling total of 26,547 commencements in the first ten months of this year. That is an increase of 16.6% on the same period last year. Effectively it is 4,000 more homes that we have been able to commence. On completions, on a rolling basis in the year to September, for the third quarter in a row we have exceeded 30,000 new homes completed. In the year to September the relevant figure was 31,500 homes, which is a very significant increase in performance in a difficult environment, particularly on the funding side.
I have visited some of those sites. I am sure we have all visited some of the new housing estates that are being built. I see hundreds and hundreds of houses being built. Every time I go to my constituency, there are more houses being built in it. I know from previous work experiences I have had that the quality of houses being built these days is incomparable to what was built in previous decades. I refer, for example, to the quality of construction and the energy efficiency of those homes. When we talk about the affordability of a house, if the energy rating and energy costs are affordable, that must be factored into it. The same applies when we provide good transport links. A house can be affordable, but if a person has to drive three or four hours every single day, that is a cost factor in housing as well. We need to recognise that.
When we talk about an underspend, we try to estimate at the start of the year how much we will need to provide the social housing target we have. What are the factors that create an underspend? To me, if a budget is allocated to do such an amount and when we come to the relevant time of the year we have underspent but we have hit our target, we are getting good value for money and have not spent it all.
That is a very good question. The Supplementary Estimate is giving just short of €150 million to the Department, which is not insignificant. We have looked at some areas where developments may not conclude in December but in January. That is always a risk where the historical dependence on quarter 4 delivery, which we are turning around, continues. What we have done here is that any of the reallocations have been reallocated within housing delivery. For example, the additional €80 million for capital assistance scheme, CAS, delivery is delivering social homes, which is very significant. Taking the additional void money we have brought in as well, the social and affordable housing delivery that I am projecting for this year will be very strong. There will be a significant increase on last year, particularly on affordable. The next number of weeks will be very important because we need to make sure we conclude the year as I am projecting, but we will exceed the overall housing target of 29,000 that was set this year. That is a good thing. We have spent more than €500 million to October this year on capital than we did last year.
Deputy Darragh O'Brien: That is a good question. First, the Supplementary Estimate is about giving and extra just short of €150 million to the Department, which is not insignificant. We have looked at areas whereby we estimate some developments may not conclude in December and may conclude in January t dna That is why there is always a risk, particularly with there still remains a historical dependency on Q. 4 delivery which we are turning around. What we have done here is, any of the reallocations have been reallocated within housing delivery. Taking the example of the additional €80 million for the capital assistance scheme, CAS, delivery. That is delivering social homes very significantly. There is the additional void money we brought in as well. I am projecting that our housing delivery this year on both social and affordable will be very strong and there will be a significant increase on last year, particularly on affordable housing. The next number of weeks are very important because we need to make sure we conclude the year as I am projecting but we will exceed our overall housing targets of 29,000 that were set this year. That is a good thing. We are spending more. We spent approximately just over €500 million more on capital to October this year than we did this time last year.
I want to move on to some other parts of it. The Minister mentioned the firefighters. It is an issue that is very pertinent in my constituency. The first phase of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, recommendations has an €8 million allocation to it. I did not catch what the Minister said after that about the secondary, further phase. Will the Minister give me the detail of that?
We wanted to expedite the implementation because we worked hard, and everyone did, to conclude a deal that worked for our firefighters and our personnel across the country. There will be €8 million in additional expenditure this year because the payments are backdated to July as part of the deal. This is additional pay and other allowances for training, turning out at incidents and things like that.
There will be an additional cost this year that would not have been there had we not concluded the deal. Next year we are providing for an additional €28 million in the full year, 2024. It is a good thing that we are able to front-load the implementation of the recommendations and to front-load and get payments out quicker to those firefighters - the men and women serving us in the retained fire services.
I absolutely agree with that. There is a mention of voids in this briefing paper. There are 2,500 voids in 2023. What will be the total number of voids? I think the last time we were talking about it, there was a figure of something more than 6,000 over the past two or three years.
It will be closer to 8,000 in total, if we go back to 2020, which was the year we came into office. This year we are providing an additional €15 million in this Supplementary Estimate for this year's expenditure. Some of that is due to increased cost, but it is targeting additional homes to come back in. This year we targeted about 2,300 vacant dwellings to bring them back into use in our social housing stock. At this stage I project that we will bring back in between 2,550 and 2,600. That will require an additional €15 million, and we got that on the basis of specific submissions from certain local authorities, including the Chair's local authority in Wicklow, Dublin City Council and Longford County Council, as examples. Seven or eight local authorities made submissions to the Department seeking additional funding for stock they could bring back into use this year.
There is a variance with the voids and the cost in local authorities too. Some are doing very deep retrofits where we are looking at the average cost in one county of about €90,000 per home to bring voids back in. One could argue that significant changes are being made by bringing older homes back to an A2 rating. When that is done, it has to be balanced against the length the time the home is actually vacant before it is re-let. Something that is rightly discussed in this committee is how we make sure, when we are upgrading homes, some of which I have seen have been in bad shape, the re-letting times to get vacant homes back into use are short. I am estimating we will do about 2,550 to 2,600 voids this year, and the €15 million is provided for that today.
Where a long-term void that has been boarded up is brought back into use, is it counted as social housing?
No, and I never have.
To me, it would make sense if it is a house that has been out of use for a long time. It is almost like a Croí Cónaithe type thing, a house that was not lived in and it is now back as a dwelling.
They were previously in stock. It is still important they are brought back in. Some are in really bad shape. I will not mention the county, but I was there recently and the homes had been four or five years out of commission. That is the county that was spending €90,000 per home. That is good stock coming back in. I do a report on them separately. They are real homes for real people. Our focus is to deliver new homes and get the vacant stock back into use. On Croí Cónaithe and the vacancy grants, we are looking at an almost 50-50 split between grants given to deal with vacancy and with dereliction. That is obsolete stock coming back in at an affordable rate for lots of people. That is not included in new housing delivery, but we will report on it and it should be taken as that. It has been an incredible success. We have had approximately 5,500 applications so far, with 2,800 approvals.
The other area we look at is repair and lease, where we set targets. That is something Deputy O'Callaghan and others had asked for. There are targets for local authorities for their conversion of commercial premises like empty shops to be brought back into use. They are categorised and brought back in as social housing stock. They were never social housing stock before. That is good. Waterford and Limerick are two counties that do it extremely well.
It is important to remember that the majority of voids are casual re-lets, not voids.
That is why I asked about the long-term voids.
That depends which county you go into.
They are existing in real terms, but that is not the point. Just so I am clear, because I am understanding this document a bit better. A total of €220 million of the underspend is from the local authority line, €10.8 million is from mortgage to rent, €800,000 is from older persons disabilities, €10 million is from regeneration, €1 million is from repair and lease and €24 million from defects. Is subhead A31 the affordable housing fund?
That is what we are putting into the land acquisition fund.
I will come to that. There is a €70 million underspend in the affordable housing fund. This is just so we understand it. This is not me picking a row with the Minister.
That will make a change.
If the Minister answered the questions, I would not have to pick a row,
I am quite happy to.
I want to go through three of those because they are significant. I want to go through the €220 million underspend in social housing for local authorities, the €24 million underspend in defects and the €70 million underspend in the affordable housing fund. I accept the Minister is reallocating that money elsewhere, and I will come to that. Am I correct to say that the €220 million underspend within the local authority subhead is local authority new builds, which are not going to get built within this year and therefore the money is being moved to other areas?
You have to manage the budget you have, and yes-----
Yes-----
I am going to come in, okay. So I am not rushing off-----
It is just that I only have a few minutes, and I want to understand the document.
You are basically looking at some projects that will not conclude this year and that will conclude next year, so we are allocating the money into areas where there is room for more houses. It is pretty clear.
A significant number of local authority new builds will not conclude this year and therefore the money is being moved elsewhere.
For other social housing builds.
Absolutely.
Will the Deputy hold on and let me clarify this? We deliver social homes in different ways. In Dublin, which all of us here represent, 50% of social homes, and it is targeted in Housing for All, are delivered through AHBs.
I am literally coming to that question if the Minister will give me the opportunity. There is €220 million for local authority new builds, for which the local authorities will not meet their targets. The Minister is therefore moving that money to a number of other subheads. Where exactly is that €220 million going? The Minister said the-----
I have gone through it.
He has not gone through it in the way I am asking. There is an underspend of €220 million in the delivery of new build social housing by local authorities. I want to know exactly where that €220 million is going, first of all. Second, where it is going, will it increase the output in those areas of just cover increased costs? The Minister has represented the capital assistance scheme, CAS, in the document as an extra €80 million. That is great. However, the Minister is saying that is to complete units this year and next year.
It will, yes.
Will we get more CAS units this year than were originally targeted and how many?
Yes. We are in November. The next six weeks will be important for housing completions. These are projections. I cannot tell the Deputy how many. I am telling him that, from what we estimate, and what has come in on CAS-----
The CAS output will be bigger than the original target.
That will be spent this year to deliver additional stock.
That is accepted and read. I have two quick additional questions. A third of the defects budget has not been spent. The Minster knows there is huge demand for the emergency funding. How come some of that money has not been made available for that emergency funding, and will any emergency funding be made available this year? The €70 million underspend in the affordable housing fund for affordable purchase is of an allocation of €90 million. Does that mean the affordable housing fund purchase targets will be badly missed this year?
The affordable housing fund purchase through local authorities in their delivery will be substantially up on last year, but will be behind-----
I am asking if it will be actually below the target.
If the Deputy is asking me a question, he should let me answer it. It will be substantially up on last year and will be-----
That would not be hard.
It will be substantially up. Every home is important to the families who get them, so do not be trite about it, okay?
Will it be substantially behind this year's target?
What I am saying to the Deputy is, I am projecting the local authority element of delivery on affordable purchase will be below delivery target, but the overall-----
It is below as two thirds of the funding is being withdrawn.
This is not a virement; this is a Supplementary Estimate.
The Minister knows it is a straight question. There is a target for affordable purchase funds this year and €90 million was given for it. The Minister is now taking €70 million of that out. That means he is surely significantly behind that target.
The Deputy will see in quarter 1 next year when we have concluded the year.
The year is not concluded yet. We will be providing-----
It is the Estimates I am asking about.
No, it is not.
It is and the Minister will not answer the question.
I am trying to answer, if the Deputy would just stop jumping in and interrupting me. This is really important.
I have been incredibly restrained during this session-----
I am not sure whether-----
----but the Minister is still not answering my questions.
It depends on one's definition of restrained. About €50 million of the funds moved from the affordable housing fund will be going into the purchase of land for future affordable housing delivery. What I said earlier on at this meeting, but maybe the Deputy was not listening-----
That is not relevant to the question.
-----is that we have approved over 62 schemes across the country for over 4,500 affordable homes.
I heard that but the Minister has a target and this is a reasonable question. The Minister has a target for affordable purchase homes this year. He allocated money in the budget and in the Revised Estimate but two thirds of that money is now being moved somewhere else. It is completely legitimate that the Minister is going to spend it in a different way but it does suggest to me that he is going to miss his affordable purchase targets by two thirds, if he is taking two thirds of the money out.
First, we have not concluded the year yet. Second, our affordable target is an overall target of 5,500 through various affordability-----
We are talking about A31 and the move of €70 million.
What I am saying to the Deputy is that the local authorities-----
The Minister is avoiding the question.
I am not; the Deputy just will not let me answer it. The local authorities will deliver significantly more affordable units this year than they did last year. Let us remember where they were starting from. Before Housing for All, they were starting-----
In fairness, that is not the question.
They were starting from zero.
This is a session on Revised Estimates. The Minister is revising down an Estimate for a key scheme and all I am asking is him to say is what that means in terms of the delivery of that scheme.
No, what the Deputy is asking me to do is to give him a definitive answer on what the output will be at the end of the year when the year has not concluded. It is a ridiculous question.
Can the Minister even give us an estimate?
It is a ridiculous question.
He could give me an estimate on the basis of his Estimate funding.
I have just told the Deputy but he does not even want to hear the answer. We will deliver significantly more affordable housing through the local authorities, the LDA and the first home scheme than we did last year. We will deliver significantly more.
The Minister missed all of this targets last year so that is not the issue.
I could pick through Deputy Ó Broin's housing policy if I actually saw one published.
It is frustrating that when we ask very simple, reasonable questions, we do not get straight answers.
It is a little bit frustrating when Deputy Ó Broin keeps interrupting.
I am sorry but we have to move on. Deputy O'Callaghan is next.
He is a much more reasonable man.
I am trying to get a handle on the €220 million that is not going to be spent on local authority housing. We know that €80 million of that is going into CAS so where is the rest of that €220 million, the €140 million, going? That is my first question. Rather than doing a back and forth, I will ask a second question now and give the Minister the space to respond. Let us say the €220 million allocated for local authority social housing had been spent. That funding for local authority homes can be matched by lending from the Housing Finance Agency. That is not 100% capital grants but just pays for a portion of the build. If the €220 million was spent on homes, what percentage would go into capital and how much is matched through loans from the Housing Finance Agency? Is that equivalent, in terms of the €80 million on CAS?
Just to be helpful, the Deputy is mixing up CAS and CAF. CAS is the capital assistance scheme which is essentially straight purchase.
It is the tenant in situ------
Yes, but not just that. There is other delivery too-----
Yes, but a lot of it is tenant in situ-----
-----and that is 100% funded.
A lot of that is 100%, the €80 million.
Yes, CAS is 100% funded.
No, it is not.
Yes it is.
Yes, but the €220 million for local authority-----
It is 90% funded.
It is 100% funded.
The local authorities are 100%.
It is 100% State funded.
Yes, but CAS is 90% funded.
On the €220 million-----
Deputy Ó Broin is coming back in again.
Is that 100%? If that was being spent, is that 100% capital funding or what is the-----
The €220 million is capital-----
Is it 100%?
We are talking about our gross voted capital provision. That is what we are talking about here. We are not on the current side. That is all staying within the A housing Vote. It is being reallocated within the Vote to help us to deliver in areas where we are delivering. Local authorities will still deliver more direct-build housing this year than they did last year. The AHBs will be delivering more and we have also had to make provision for the purchase of homes with tenants in situ, which has been very significant this year, at around 2,200.
Can we get to the nub of my question? I appreciate that delivery this year is going to be better than the very poor performance last year.
It is going to be much better.
I appreciate that but all of €220 million would be capital funding if it was spent. Is that correct?
It is going to be spent.
If that was spent under A3 local authority housing, would that be 100% capital grants?
This is the gross voted capital provision. It is capital. All of these subheads here that we are talking about are capital.
Yes, I get that but none of it is matched by HFA funding in terms of delivery of homes.
That is CAF. CAF is matched by HFA funding but CAS is not. Deputy Ó Broin and I can argue about this but it is 100% State funded. It is not borrowing, it is capital. I am genuinely trying to be helpful here. Let us take Dublin City Council for argument's sake. There are some large developments in Dublin City Council that we are estimating will not conclude this year but will conclude next year, in some cases for very good reasons. There are complications within the developments and that happens. That is the real world. It happens that some projects are delayed. There is one particular project in the Deputy's constituency where there were significant issues with water ingress on the first build. I will not mention where it is here but that development took a lot longer to conclude than expected. What we have done here, and it was the sensible thing to do, is to look at the money we have, ascertain where there are pressures and opportunities to deliver more, to make sure that we are going to hit our target for social housing delivery and look at how we can deliver that. We had a significant capital carry over last year, as the Deputy knows. Deputies Ó Broin and O'Callaghan, as is their right, criticised me and the Department for that, even though given the year that was in it most people understood there were issues with supply chain and delivery. We will not surrender any of the allocation this year. We have spent €500 million more this year on the capital side than we had at this time last year. We have to ramp up the capacity to do that, so what we are doing-----
Where is the other €140 million out of the €220 million going?
It is going to the land acquisition fund.
So instead of building homes, it is buying land.
We should take a long-term view. We are building more social housing now than we have built for 50 years. We will have a record year this year. It is right and proper, where we see opportunities for AHBs and local authorities to purchase land to deliver social housing, that we facilitate that. The land acquisition fund-----
The nub of my question on that-----
-----if I say so myself, was an extremely successful initiative. It was very much welcomed by local authorities and AHBs because it means they can build up their land bank and pipeline and plan ahead.
Why not budget for that properly rather than taking the money that has not been spent on building social or affordable homes towards the end of the year and transferring that into the land acquisition fund?
I take the Deputy's point.
That is the point I am making.
In the simplest terms, I have given the Chair the figures for what we are doing in housing delivery overall. It will be a successful year in relation to housing delivery. It will be a good year for social and affordable housing delivery. In areas where we see that there will be under-delivery, we are right to look at where we can reallocate that money to ensure we are delivering more homes in other categories, such as CAS, or that we are buying land to be able to improve the pipeline we have into the future. That is the beauty of a multi-annual programme and that is how we know, as I speak here today, that we have about 23,000 social homes in the pipeline and under construction. We never had that before now. It is building up, year on year.
I am not referring to Deputy O'Callaghan, but some Deputies do not want to recognise the progress that is being made. It is moving in the right direction quite significantly. We have to be flexible within our Vote, to see how we can spend our money better. In the real world, schemes get delayed. That will always be the case, regardless of who is Minister, whether it be Deputy O' Callaghan, Deputy Ó Broin or Deputy Matthews. There will be real life issues that arise, which means that some schemes do not conclude on time. That means we are not going to pay them out fully in that year. We need to have the flexibility to be able to look at what we are spending, determine how we can spend it to the best effect and make sure we are building a pipeline for delivery into the next year. That is the sensible thing to do.
I will be brief because I know the Minister has to leave shortly. There are three issues which are not mentioned in the documentation, so the Minister can come back to me on them later. First, we talked about the serviced sites fund previously. Five good town-centre sites were advertised in Wicklow recently. I would be interested in hearing the Minister's response at some point on the serviced sites initiative. I know it will only make a small impact on housing but-----
Is the Deputy referring to the Croí Cónaithe towns initiative?
I am talking about the serviced sites initiative, where there is departmental support to purchase serviced sites through the local authority.
It can create that attention for people who want to live in a rural area but within that kind of rural town centre as well. It is a good scheme.
We referred to community-led housing in the Act in 2021.
We did the first time, yes.
Has there ever been a budgetary allocation or support? Have we advanced that? I met with a community-led housing group and, again, it is quite a small impact on housing. It is quite important as well. The Minister might respond to me when he has time to research that.
We did quite a significant report here on modern methods, low carbon technologies and volumetric and modular housing. Does the Minister foresee where we would be able to invest more in that to signal to industry that is a direction we want to go in future budgets and maybe even set targets for low carbon delivery? We are one of the biggest providers of housing in Ireland and the biggest provider in procurement of building services. We should try to go for that low carbon technology. I do not expect the Minister to have those three answers because we are dealing with supplementary questions.
I can come back very quickly on-----
Can I ask two technical questions along with the Chairman's?
The Deputy may go ahead.
It would be very helpful for the committee if we were given as a matter of course the full subhead breakdown of both the abridged Estimates volume, AEV, and revised Estimates volume, REV. I am making a request through the committee. Could we get a full subhead breakdown of the REV for 2023? That has never been published. Could we get a full breakdown of the AEV with all the individual subheads? Could we get the full AEV for 2024? When the final REV for 2024 is complete, could we get that?
The second technical question concerns the stranded cost for local authorities as they move towards a single utility. In that allocation of €74 million, is there any opportunity for a local authority manager - where a water services staff member decides to remain in the local authority but, for example, had overtime opportunities as a water services worker that are no longer available as a general operative somewhere else - to continue a person's current full rate of pay or will they only go back to the base rate of pay as, say, a general operative? Do the managers have any discretion within that €74 million?
There are two things. The AEV is programme only, by the way. It does not go into individual subheads. The AEV-----
It does. I have to put in a freedom of information request each year. It takes an awful long time. That should be given to the committee.
It is an internal document so-----
However, I will get it.
The Deputy can get it next year when he puts in a freedom of information request.
No, I will get it in December but it wastes the Minister's staff's time. Could he not give us the AEV and then the REV? These are really important public documents.
It is not finalised.
The REV is not going to be finalised until the end of December but the AEV is finalised.
We will come back through the Chair of the committee on that.
This is a really important transparency issue. I will raise it with the Chair separately.
It is my slot. The Deputy was going to raise small technical matters. I will let the Minister respond.
Interrupting me is interrupting the Chair in his question time. With regard to the Uisce Éireann transformation, we have concluded those negotiations with regard to those who would have had allowances in a previous job to give the opportunity for allowances in their reallocated role should that arise. That agreement has been concluded with the complete-----
Having come from that €74 million.
The stranded costs are mainly pension and salary-related ICT. It needs to be done because if we did not conclude the deal, we would not have the stranded costs. To get back to the Chair and answer the question, I met a community-led housing group recently - it might be the same group we are talking about - and we offered advice and assistance. We have not had any request on the community -led housing in that space that I have seen. We had a good meeting with the group a number of months ago and offered advice with officials, if it is the same group about which we are talking. They are very committed people.
We have set targets for local authorities and MMC delivery with 1,500 additional social homes. The Chairman might recall that they were the encumbered sites where we took the deck last year from the local authorities on the basis that they would deliver those sites through MMC only. We will have three of those sites commencing very shortly. The local authorities and the State, indeed, need to catch up on the private sector on parts of the MMC piece. There are some big developments. Mulhuddart in my area is all MMC delivery. It is a very large scheme of 1,500 affordable and social homes being done through the local authority. A lot of them are doing it, but we have set specific targets on these sites for MMC delivery. We are actually seeing more producers. If we look at the old Braun factory in County Carlow now, there are new homes there. We have the capacity to be able to deliver homes off-site, not just off-site but through MMC, that are far more carbon and climate friendly and more efficient. They are not necessarily cheaper but they are certainly more efficient with regard to time delivery and they are less labour intensive too. There are real opportunities for us there. We have set targets for local authorities in that regard. The Minister of State, Senator Hackett, actually set up a group on the use of cross-laminated timber, CLT, that we have been involved in, in particular. There are real opportunities for us on developments or buildings over 12 m, in particular, that cannot be built right now using CLT, which I believe they should be. That work is under way, however.
I will get the Chairman details on his query regarding the serviced sites in Wicklow to see how many have come in. I have been in Meath where they have had a few through.
It is just generally country-wise because it is a good scheme with good opportunities
In conclusion, when we talk about town and village regeneration, genuinely, the Croí Cónaithe grant is transformational now. We are seeing that in every town and village, and cities now as well, and we have got to fund that out. We expect next year that we will have a drawdown of close to €100 million because it actually takes time for people to do the work. We should only pay a grant when people can certify the work has been done. If we were to add in additional steps and give stage payments, which some have suggested, we would actually prolong the process. Unless people are suggesting that we just provide a grant upfront on the trust that someone will carry out the work, I do not think that would be a good mechanism or way to do it. It is certainly not. However, it will make a massive difference to the people who have responded to the grant so far and the families I have met. We have approximately 2,700 approved already. There have been over 5,500 applications and that number is growing every single week, supported by our vacant homes officers in every local authority. This Government has ensured that we have vacant homes officers in all 31 local authorities who are focused on tackling the scourge of vacancy and helping to rejuvenate and regenerate our towns and villages.
I thank members for their input today. We will come back with any additional items and any reasonable additional requests members have made, where they are reasonable.
It is not unreasonable to ask for a breakdown and information on allocations.
I thank the Minister and his officials. That concludes our consideration of the Supplementary Estimate Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage, which were referred by the Dáil to the committee in accordance with Standing Order 101. A message to that effect will be sent to the Clerk of the Dáil.