Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Select Sub-Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 21 Jan 2015

Aviation Agreements: Motion

This meeting has been convened to consider the motion that Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the following agreements: No. 1, agreement on air transport between the European Community and its member states on the one part and Canada on the other part, a copy of which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 11 December 2014; No. 2, common aviation area agreement between the European Union and its member states of the one part and on the Republic of Moldova of the other part, a copy of which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 11 December 2014; No. 3, common aviation area agreement between the European Union and its member states of the one part and Georgia of the other part, a copy of which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 7 November 2012; and No. 4, Euro Mediterranean aviation agreement between the European Union and its member states of the one part and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan of the other part, a copy of which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 12 December 2012, and which motion was referred to the Select Sub-Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport by Dáil Éireann in accordance with Standing Order 82A(3)(b) and (6)(a) on 16 December 2014. Members will have received briefing material prepared by the Department.

I welcome the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, and his officials to the meeting. I invite the Minister to make his opening statement.

I thank the Chairman and the committee for facilitating consideration of this Dáil motion to approve the terms of four important aviation agreements between the European Union and Canada, Georgia, Moldova and Jordan. The European Union’s external aviation policy has developed gradually, particularly over the past decade since the European Court’s so-called open skies ruling in 2002. This ruling clarified that the European Union had legal competency in some matters relating to the Union’s external aviation relations. In particular, the ruling has allowed the Union to negotiate a range of EU aviation agreements with third countries since 2002.

The provisions of such agreements prevail over the relevant provisions of any existing bilateral air services agreements between individual member states and these countries. Ireland has always been supportive of the European policy of negotiating such agreements with neighbouring countries. The Dáil has approved the terms of a number of very similar agreements in the past, such as the EU aviation agreements with the United States, Israel and the Balkan countries.

The agreements with Canada, Georgia, Moldova and Jordan were negotiated over a number of years and were signed between 2010 and 2012. The agreements have been applied provisionally since signature pending full ratification by all 28 member states of the EU, which can take several years to complete. The European Commission led the negotiations leading to the four agreements and consulted with stakeholders throughout the process, including the member states, airlines, airports, and labour organisations.

Ireland is among a number of member states that still have to complete domestic procedures to allow the agreements to be fully ratified. The purpose of the Dáil motion is to allow the Government proceed with such ratification as soon as possible. The agreements are largely based on existing European aviation law that is already in force in Ireland. For this reason no additional Irish legislation is required to allow Ireland ratify the agreements. For administrative efficiency and to minimise the Dáil time required, Dáil approval is being sought for all four agreements in one motion.

International aviation agreements generally follow a prescribed format and these EU agreements are no different in that regard. The four agreements are quite similar in content. The main issues that the agreements provide for are as follows: market opening in terms of access to routes and capacity, on a reciprocal basis; promoting regulatory co-operation in the field of aviation; promoting air services based on competition among air carriers with minimum government interference and regulation; and promoting non-discrimination and a level playing field for air operators.

The agreement with Canada is by far the most significant for Ireland. The development of the market for air services between Ireland and Canada since the agreement was signed is a good example of how such agreements stimulate growth and facilitate competition in the market. In 2014 Aer Lingus launched direct services to Canada for the first time since the 1970s. In addition, three Canadian airlines now operate direct scheduled services between the two countries – Air Canada Rouge, Air Transat and Westjet. Westjet, is a successful low-cost Canadian airline and the seasonal service it launched to Ireland in 2014 is the airline’s first transatlantic route. This new choice of routes and airlines is obviously of huge benefit for tourism and trade, and also the many Irish emigrants in Canada.

In the case of the other three countries, there are only very limited direct services to and from Ireland. Air Moldova operates a seasonal service between Moldova and Ireland, but there are currently no direct routes between Ireland and Jordan or Georgia. However, even without direct services to or from Ireland, the agreements with these countries can still be beneficial to Irish airlines, as they allow Irish airlines to freely operate services to these countries from any EU member state.

All four agreements are mixed competency agreements. This means that as well as the EU being a party to the agreements, Ireland and the other EU member states are also parties in their own right. Hence the need for all member states to ratify the agreements individually.

There is a standard clause in EU aviation agreements dealing with dispute resolution procedures. This stipulates that the expenses of any arbitration under the clause will be shared between all the parties, including Ireland. Such arbitration expenses arise very rarely under such agreements and in any case such expenses would not be high. Nonetheless, this clause of the agreements is deemed to create a potential charge on public funds and this is one of the reasons the approval of the Dáil is required under Article 29.5.2° of the Constitution.

I avail of the opportunity to give the committee a short update on national aviation policy. As an island nation, aviation plays a crucial role in Ireland’s economy. It is essential for our tourism industry, for our trading relationships and fundamental for connecting Ireland with the rest of the world. We are far more dependent on aviation than many of our continental neighbours and trading partners. This is why I believe it is so important to provide an appropriate policy framework within which the sector can continue to develop and grow to underpin Ireland’s economic recovery. With this in mind, a new national aviation policy has been under preparation and is close to finalisation. I intend to publish the new policy document in the near future. This will address all aspects of aviation policy from safety, security and economic regulation, to competition and connectivity issues. It will reiterate Ireland’s support for the EU external aviation policy and for EU aviation agreements such as the ones before the committee today.

I thank the Chairman for his time.

These matters are relatively straightforward. I thank the Minister for his presentation. While these agreements are being updated and accepting their existence, is there any potential benefit other than what we are already gaining from them from Ireland's perspective? As a new Minister in the Department perhaps he would take a look at our relationship with the various states outside Europe to see whether there is potential for future business in any of those regions? Obviously it would be a matter for individual airlines to exploit any potential commercial interest. Notwithstanding that, with his tourism hat on, is there anything more we could do in terms of the Canadian market in particular? From a tourism point of view a great deal of effort has gone into the Asian market in recent years. Are there any other benefits we may be able to gain for the State arising from those European agreements?

I will take a couple of questions.

I thank the Minister for appearing before the committee. Canada is the most important in terms of these agreements. Does Ireland conduct an audit of all the countries where we are not up to speed in regard to agreements and particularly the countries with which we trade most? Is any country being left outside the loop from an EU point of view and from Ireland's point of view? The Minister mentioned that he is drawing up a new national aviation policy and, obviously, that will come before the committee for debate. However, we need to get it well in advance in order that we can study it. Given the way aviation is moving, the new aviation policy is very important. As markets are opening up across the world, is Ireland targeting specific countries with which we want to conclude new agreements? When the issue arises at EU level, do we make suggestions about different countries with which we would like to conclude agreements or do we have an input?

As Deputy Patrick O'Donovan is the only other member indicating I call him also.

I appreciate the Minister said the development of the Canadian market is very important from an Irish point of view. In that context our national carrier especially in terms of the development of further transatlantic routes out of Dublin and Shannon is of huge importance to the economy. There has been much recent commentary on a possible sale of a Government stake in Aer Lingus. The Minister referred to the development of North American markets and routes, and that the Government is mindful of the connectivity between Shannon, New York, Boston and the greater North American continent but even more particularly the connectivity between Shannon and London and onwards into the far East, Asia and such places. There is much comment in regard to what would happen in the event of any proposed sale of the Government stake.

Certainly in my region, we ask for an assurance that any action taken is based on the greatest possible due diligence. The perception is that it did not happen last time.

If I may digress to something that may be parochial, the issue of Cork Airport is a source of concern in my region. We have lost a considerable number of flights from the airport and there is a need to restart the Cork-Dublin service. The issue has been raised in Topical Issue debates and parliamentary questions. I ask the Minister to take these concerns on board. I may raise them as a Topical Issue matter at some stage in the near future.

I thank members for their questions. Deputy Dooley asked about our plans to make the most of our agreement with Canada. This was also referred to by Deputy Ellis. This is a good example of the importance of finding common ground between the transport and tourism parts of my Department. One of the most important insights I have had from my role pertains to the fundamental importance of aviation policy to tourism, not to mention the broader area of foreign direct investment and our ability to develop as a trading country. Tourism Ireland has prepared a marketing plan specifically for Canada, which I launched just before Christmas. Its marketing plans and funds are aimed specifically at what it wants to achieve from the Canadian market. Our tourist figures from the Canadian market are doing well but we believe they can do even better in future. The fact that we have seen an increase in the number of visitors from Canada shows how the two can come together. With the passage of this agreement through the Dáil, I hope it will provide a foundation on which access can be improved in the future.

In regard to the point raised by Deputy Ellis on the audit of other countries and the role we might play when the European Union seeks to open negotiations, the decision on the parties with which to enter discussions is primarily led by the European Commission. It is currently involved in discussions with Australia and Brazil in regard to the further agreements that might be reached. The people who are best aware of the possible opportunities in this regard are those who run our airports. I refer members to the work done by the airports to develop access to other destinations, and the successes and setbacks they have encountered. My Department supports the airports in that work, and the Irish Aviation Authority is also aware of it. In terms of making the most of our access to new routes, that can be achieved by co-operation between our airports, my Department and Tourism Ireland. I have been impressed by the extent of co-operation to date. The work that has been done in Canada is a clear example of such co-operation.

Deputy O'Donovan raised the issue of slots at Shannon Airport. Last night I responded to a Topical Issue matter tabled by Deputy Dooley and others on the issue. I am limited in what I can say at present because the Irish Takeover Panel has deemed this to be a takeover period. As a representative of a shareholder in the Aer Lingus company, I am limited in what I can say for fear of being seen to be playing a role in influencing the share price. As I pointed out in the Dáil last night, the kinds of issues raised in previous takeover bids for Aer Lingus included connectivity, competition, bases and brand development, as well as the value of shares in the company. It is fair to assume these criteria would be uppermost for the Government in its evaluation of what may happen in the future. At this point in time, however, a formal takeover bid has not been received by the board of Aer Lingus.

Deputy McCarthy asked about the development of Cork Airport. I assume he is referring to recent changes in the passenger figures in and out of the airport. The body with direct operational responsibility for Cork Airport is the DAA and it has been engaging directly with the airport to support its business. I expect the DAA to develop plans to respond to the issues arising, and I would be happy to reply in more detail to any questions the Deputy might care to raise in the Dáil.

Further to Deputy Dooley's comments on Shannon Airport, we lost our airport in Galway, albeit not under the Minister's watch. The PSO was removed and no carrier is willing to fly to the airport in its absence. People in Galway also consider Shannon as a local airport and its flights to Heathrow make it an important hub for the west of Ireland. I acknowledge that the Minister is constrained in what he can say but does he have the power to use our shareholding in Aer Lingus to make it a condition of sale that the slots in Shannon cannot be disposed of? We have a minority shareholding of 25%. Is that sufficient to give the Minister power to block the sale of the slots?

As I stated a few moments ago, I am required by law to be extremely careful in what I say on that and other matters given that the Irish Takeover Panel has deemed us to be in a takeover period. Perhaps it would be useful if I rehearsed the comments I made to the Dáil last night in regard to any potential disposal of Heathrow slots. I stated:

A specific mechanism was built into the company's memorandum and articles of association whereby any proposal for the disposal of slots over which the airline had rights at the time of listing on the Stock Exchange may be subject to a requirement for a resolution approved by shareholders voting at an extraordinary general meeting, EGM. Where a resolution by shareholders is called for, the voting threshold to prevent a disposal of slots proposed by the company is such that the percentage vote against disposal at the EGM must be greater than the percentage of the company's shares held by the Minister for Finance plus 5%, or 25% if greater. The ability of the State's shareholding to block a disposal of slots is not guaranteed under this mechanism, as the support of at least another 5% of shareholders is required. This mechanism also relates only to a proposed disposal of slots. Aer Lingus does not require any shareholder approval to change the routes for which it uses the slots.

I remind Deputy Walsh that he is spoiled for choice, as there are two local airports in his area. There is one in Knock as well.

There is one north of us as well. Fair play to the Chairman.

There is a fine big port in Foynes as well.

I have a final question for the Minister before we wrap up matters.

In the run-up to an election, lands get very territorial.

In the context of this motion, can two countries bilaterally make an agreement in regard to flights? What seems to be suggested by this is that the EU can dictate connectivity between member states. If countries can make bilateral agreements, how is this vital? It is a point of information.

It is a very important point. The direct answer to the Chairman's question is that we can and do negotiate bilateral agreements. I could give a number of examples of the importance of that. One of the factors that any general business involved in aviation, such as aircraft leasing, would point to when asked why Ireland is such a strong location to do business in is the breadth of treaties we have negotiated with other countries. We have the ability to do it, we can do it and we have already done it. We have a very extensive suite of arrangements in place, but the European Union has the competency to develop those relationships with other countries, which we then ratify through this. I hope it will give a further spur to the development of markets such as Canada, to which we already have access. Regarding the other countries referred to in the motion, if the demand is there, it would enable the development of routes and access to those.

I thank the Minister and his officials for coming in this morning and also the members of the committee.

Barr
Roinn