Special Committee Factories Bill, 1954 díospóireacht -
Thursday, 27 Jan 1955

SECTION 12.

Mr. Dockrell

I move amendment 15:

To add to the section a new sub-section as follows :—

(4) Except where the Minister in any particular case otherwise requires, the provisions of this section shall not apply to a saw mill.

This is a further extension of what I mentioned earlier about the saw mills. I thought the best way to deal with it here was to add a new sub-section and put in the proviso "except where the Minister in any particular case otherwise requires " to give him that power. The question of heating a saw mill is almost impossible: Any saw mill I have ever seen has been at least open on two ends and sometimes it is open at the side. In many of them it is impossible to work and shut the doors because there is no room inside to keep both the planed and unplaned sawn timber. Further, the question of heating could easily be dangerous with the dust in suspension in the air which you might get near the big saws or planers. You could have certain risks there. For these reasons the trade feel that this provision would be almost, if not entirely, impossible to carry out effectively.

Mr. Norton

Section 12 requires that a reasonable temperature will be maintained in each workroom. It is only where a substantial portion of the work is done sitting down that a specification of a minimum of 60 degrees applies. Your amendment is designed to grant complete exemption for saw mills.

Mr. Dockrell

I put in: " except where the Minister in any particular case otherwise requires".

Mr. Norton

I do not think we can do better than leave it to the inspectors to interpret what is reasonable, in the light of the particular trade concerned. I do not know how you could do it otherwise.

Mr. Dockrell

It is always very difficult to argue for complete exemption for any particular type of trade from the provisions of an Act because there are bound to be certain parts which, whilst it would be unreasonable to carry them out, it would be unreasonable to omit entirely. That is why I gave the Minister that proviso. I still feel that it is almost impossible to do it in connection with a saw mill.

Mr. Norton

Similarly, it would be almost impossible to define a saw mill because there is such a variety of them.

Mr. Dockrell

To put in hot pipes and have the necessary firing, and so forth, would not be an easy thing. Sometimes there is a furnace, but it may be a long way away.

Mr. Norton

You have the forest mill also.

Mr. Dockrell

I am thinking of the city mill.

Mr. Hilliard

I have seen most of the work carried out in the open. There is just a cover—a long open shed in which the log timber is cut into planks before it is taken into the rooms to be cut down and worked upon.

Mr. Dockrell

The city saw mills are all covered and, in many cases, have two sides : the ends are all open. The ideal thing is to drive in the lorries.

Mr. Hilliard

And take in the long timber on a pulley.

Mr. Dockrell

I want to make quite sure that the Department realise the special circumstances of a saw mill.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. Lemass

On the section. It occurs to me that the paramount consideration in this Bill should be the reasonableness of the conditions under which workmen are asked to work. This section deals with the temperature of workrooms. I do not know what the Minister would have to say about cold storage plants. Clearly, where necessary, there should be power to provide for clothing of a suitable kind. I think some consideration should be given to the possibility of regulations being made which will provide for reasonable conditions for workmen irrespective of the temperature of the workroom or if the temperature of the workroom, because of the process carried on, had to be maintained at too low or too high a point for the workman to work comfortably, that he would have some special protection.

Mr. Norton

There is provision in Section 56 to make welfare regulations. In sub-paragraph (c) of paragraph (2) of Section 56 you will see that there is reference to the supply of protective clothing. I suppose that is about the best way in which we can deal with the problem.

Mr. Larkin

I think regard might be had to it from the point of view of temperature. Take the case of cold storage. Quite clearly, we could not deal with that by adjusting the temperature. Normally, the workers are provided with some type of heavy clothing. However, there are other employments where even protective clothing will not be of great benefit to the worker. I have in mind, at this moment, the fish trade, bottling stores, garages, and so forth. There are employments where the nature of the work does not require such heavy physical effort as to keep the workmen warm. In the winter-time, such workers suffer very severely from the cold in their hands and feet. I am not clear, myself, how to deal with that so I did not touch the problem. We must be mindful, however, of the open garage or of a shop where men are engaged on the cleaning and filleting of fish and have their hands in cold water all the time. Such conditions might be more serious to their health than conditions in other employments where the workers can put on protective clothing.

Mr. Norton

If it is, we can meet the situation under Section 56 by putting in a provision, in the alphabetical arrangement of matters to be dealt with, to ensure that certain physical comforts will be among the matters for which it will be possible to legislate.

Mr. Lemass

It may be possible to vary the temperature and the Minister may not have to exempt the factory at all. If he does that, there should be an obligation on the owner to make other arrangements, but there should be general power to exempt.

Mr. Norton

We can look at that in relation to Section 56. We can also look of it under Section 70 in which power is given to make special regulations for safety and health.

Section 12 agreed to.

Section 13 agreed to.