I trust we have the required reporting facilities available to-day to allow us to proceed.
Procedure
Are we live here?
Yes. I have confirmed that and there are people here to log what is being said. We discussed item No. 1 on the agenda — procedure generally — at our last meeting and unless somebody wishes to raise any other matter regarding procedure we will proceed. Another matter which we have to agree on is, the fixing of the latest date for the receipt of amendments. I think we will see how the meeting is going to progress first. There is provision in Standing Orders for the nomination of substitutes. Regarding the admission of the press and visitors — the meeting is public unless the committee decide otherwise.
I think there will be a proposal that Deputy Fergus O'Brien will take my place on the committee.
You are leaving the committee because of your appointment to the Cabinet?
Yes. Deputy Fergus O'Brien will be replacing me in the capacity that I had as Minister of State and the party balance will be altered accordingly. I am informing you as a matter of courtesy. The matter will be dealt with by the Committee on Selection later.
Is there any other matter on procedure before we move on to consideration of the Bill?
I would like to suggest before closing off the procedure item that we may want, at some stage, depending on what way the committee discussion advances, to make a recommendation at the end of our deliberations on the various sections of this Bill and from the point of view of procedure it may be necessary for us to make a collective report or a majority report back to the House which will be taken in the normal course on Report Stage. There is a convention in relation to it from Erskine May, whose book is the standard text book in relation to parliamentary systems, and says that if a committee fails to reach agreement or where a committee is of the opinion that a Bill should not be further proceeded with it has made a Special Report to that effect. I am quoting from Erskine May's Treatise on the Law of Privileges, Proceedings and Usage of Parliament which is a kind of driver’s manual for parliamentarians in the English speaking world.
Are you suggesting——
I am suggesting that under the heading of procedure without closing off procedure at the end of our deliberations we may have a situation where——
I think we should argue that if and when we come to it I am sure there must be an Irish precedent available.
Is that a British precedent? I am interested to know. I wonder would we hear a bit more of it. I agree with Deputy O'Malley that maybe the time to worry about it is if it arises.
I was anxious to see what steps we could take procedurally after we conclude the Committee Stage.
The Commiteee Stage may be short.
What is the position of this committee in regard to seeking legal advice? If this was in the Dáil obviously the Minister moving the Second Stage, or on Committee Stage, would be acting on legal advice. Do we as a committee of the Dáil have the right to call for legal advice or do we go on whatever advice we have got?
As I understand it, a special committee of the House is not empowered to send for experts or papers but it proceeds in committee as if the Bill was being discussed in the House. The only people entitled to contribute to the Bill are the Members of the Oireachtas who have been appointed to the committee.
So if a situation arises that is conflicting——
We could always decide to adjourn and get our individual advice and then return. We will proceed and use our common sense as we go along. We will move on to consideration of the Bill. We can take it section by section.
Section 1 agreed to.