Special Committee Wildlife Bill, 1975 díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Jun 1976

SECTION 29.

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

I move amendment No. 14:

In page 26, subsection (3), lines 1 and 2, to delete " under subsection (1) or subsection (2) " and substitute " or renewal under subsection (1), subsection (2) or subsection (6) ".

With the permission of the Chair, I shall take amendments Nos. 14 and 15 together.

Section 29 provides for the granting of licences to hunt game birds and game animals, that is, hares and deer, with firearms. Subsection (3) provides that in dealing with applications for such licences the Minister shall have regard to the conservation needs of game birds or game animals for which open seasons will have been declared under sections 24 and 25 and to the suitability of the applicant having regard to those needs. Amendment No. 14 provides for a necessary cross reference to the renewal by the Minister of licences under subsection (6). Obviously, the same considerations I have just mentioned should apply to applications for renewal of licences as apply to original applications. This was an oversight in the drafting of the section.

Similarly, amendment No. 15 in effect provides that when a person is applying to the Minister for a renewal of a hunting licence he must make a formal declaration of his qualifications under section 28 as he is obliged to do it when making his original application. This is a necessary amendment to cover, for example, a situation where a person was qualified to apply originally for a hunting licence on the grounds that he had lawful access to sporting rights over a specified tract of land but by the time he comes to apply for a renewal of the hunting licence the location of his sporting rights had changed.

They are two technical amendments to tidy up the section and to impose the same obligation on an application for a renewal of a hunting licence as to the original application.

If the amendments are accepted I propose to give the Committee a brief résumé——

Chairman

We will deal with the question of the amendments now.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

I move amendment No. 15:

In page 26, subsection (6), to insert " who when making the application referred to in subsection (1) of this section " after " licence " in line 33.

Amendment agreed to.

Question proposed: " That section 29, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

Section 29 is concerned with the actual granting of licences to hunt, for example, game licences, and provides for three categories of licence holder: (1) the resident sportsmen wishes to shoot game birds and hares. He is what might be called the traditional Irish shooting man. (2) The resident sportsman who wishes to shoot game animals. For practical purposes these will be deer rather than hares. The number interested in this type of shooting is relatively small. (3) The non-resident sportsman or visitor to the State for game shooting irrespective of whether game birds or game animals are involved.

The expression " resident in the State " and " resident outside the State " rather than, say, " native " and " foreigner " are used here to tie in with the terminology regarding firearm certificates, of which the hunting licence is really an extension. The former relates to the holding of a gun. The latter is concerned with one particular usage of that gun, game shooting.

A person in any of the three categories, when seeking a game licence, will be required to declare his qualification status within the meaning of section 28, that (a) he is at least 16 years of age and (b) has legitimate access to sporting rights. The requirement of (b) is aimed at cutting out the poacher. In addition, it will be a condition attaching to all licence holders that they use appropriate firearms. In this connection, various restrictions on the use of certain firearms are provided in section 33. The weapon used for game birds would not be at all suitable for, say, deer shooting.

The theory of section 29 is that all game licences should be granted by the Minister for Lands, having regard to his overall responsibility under the Bill, for the game scene generally. However, strict application of this theory presents difficulties and it is proposed to operate on the basis that (a) a proportion of the licences will be granted and issued directly by the Minister and (b) others will be issued through the agency of the Garda Síochána but will be deemed to be granted by the Minister.

Mr. Tunney

The Minister has said that the applicant must be 16 years of age. Is there any regard for what might be described as the " competency " of the user?

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

No, Deputy, there is not. We regard that as a matter for the issuing authority, which is the Garda Síochána under the Department of Justice.

Mr. Tunney

Earlier on I indicated the concern I would have with developments in this regard. I think the time has come when anybody who holds a licence, or any applicant for a licence, should be able to produce what might be regarded as appropriate insurance coverage. Would the Minister see any obligation on himself, under the terms of this legislation, to have regard to the fact that there could be third-party injury arising out of this?

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

I would not. There are two interested agencies here, the Department of Justice and the Department of Lands. I am concerned only with the use of a gun in so far as it is used as a hunting instrument. The Minister for Justice has regard to the qualification of the person who holds a gun. He would have regard to whether a person, having regard to his standing before the law, is entitled to be a fit person to have a gun. If a shooting test is to be imposed, or if an insurance policy is to be required, then I would think that would be a matter for the Department of Justice and not for me or the Department of Lands.

Mr. Tunney

For the purpose of this legislation reference is made to visitors, those born in the State and born outside it. I think the resident would enjoy certain liberties that the continental visitor might not. For the purpose of the legislation is there any special privilege given to the visitor from Northern Ireland? How would he be categorised in this legislation?

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

The question of citizenship does not arise here. That question was raised by the late Deputy Cunningham by way of parliamentary question to me within the last couple of years. I understand there is a problem about it. We are not dealing here with the question of citizenship. We are dealing with an outsider, someone who does not own land here and who is not an ordinary resident here. That is the context.

Chairman

Could I draw the attention of Deputies to the time? Could we fix a time for the next meeting?

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

I suggest next Tuesday, 3.45 p.m. to 6 o'clock. I would ask the Committee to think about a second day next week. I suggest that we meet on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Mr. Brennan

3.45 to 5 o'clock would be long enough.

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

That is only an hour or so. If there was a division we would not be back at all.

Mr. Brennan

What about those of us who have to get letters out in the post? If we miss the 6 o'clock post they would be a day late.

Chairman

We all have.

Mr. T. J. Fitzpatrick (Cavan)

Donegal is beyond redemption.

Mr. Brennan

This is the most controversial section of the Bill. A section of the National Regional Game Council Association take exception to it.

The Committee adjourned at 6 p.m. until 3.45 p.m. on Tuesday, 29th June, 1976.