Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 19 May 2004
2 Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs his views and those of the other European Union Foreign Ministers on the establishment of a high level independent international tribunal to examine compliance with the Geneva Conventions on all sides since the invasion of Iraq. [14777/04]
Amharc ar fhreagra5 Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a clear protest against the torture of Iraqi detainees by US soldiers when President Bush visits Ireland in June 2004; if he has already made such a protest to the US administration; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14865/04]
Amharc ar fhreagraI propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 5 together.
The Government has publicly and strongly condemned the mistreatment and abuse of prisoners in Iraq by US and UK forces. It made its concerns known directly to the US and UK authorities when the allegations first came to light.
The Government fully supports the recent insistence by UN Secretary General, Kofi Annan, that all detainees should be fully protected in accordance with the provisions of international human rights law. Moreover, Security Council Resolution 1483 of 22 May 2003 calls upon all concerned to comply fully with their obligations under international law. The treatment of prisoners of war is specifically covered by the third Geneva Convention.
On Monday, the EU Council of Ministers, acting on the initiative of the Irish Presidency, adopted the following conclusions. The Council expressed its abhorrence at recent evidence of the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraqi prisons. It condemned any instances of abuse and degradation of prisoners in Iraq, which are contrary to international law, including the Geneva Conventions. It welcomed the commitment by the relevant governments to bring to justice any individuals responsible for such acts involving the abuse of Iraqi detainees, and their commitment to rectify any failure to adhere to international humanitarian law.
I have also been active in ensuring that similar statements were included in the Presidency conclusions issued after last week's EuroMed ministerial meeting in Dublin and in the joint communiqué adopted at Monday's meeting between the European Union and the Gulf Co-operation Council.
The issue of the abuse of prisoners by US personnel was raised at last Friday's meeting between G8 Foreign Ministers and President Bush and the subsequent ministerial meeting, both of which I attended. President Bush and the Secretary of State, Colin Powell, condemned the mistreatment of prisoners in the strongest possible terms and expressed the Administration's determination that those responsible should be brought to justice. I am confident this matter will be raised next month at both the G8 summit and the EU-US summit.
Several formal investigations led by senior military officials are under way. The US military has filed criminal charges against a number of soldiers who are accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners and several senior officers have been reprimanded. As regards the UK, the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, briefed the EU External Relations Council yesterday on his Government's investigation into allegations of prisoner abuse. He made clear that such abuse would not be tolerated, all allegations were being thoroughly investigated and anybody found to be responsible for the mistreatment of prisoners would be brought to justice. He confirmed that recent photographs published by the Daily Mirror showing abuse of Iraqi prisoners by British troops were forgeries.
In addition to these inquiries into the specific allegations of abuse, an independent report on human rights in Iraq is being prepared by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. This report will examine the period between April 2003 and May 2004. It will cover, among other issues, the treatment of prisoners in detention. Given that the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights is regarded as independent and that preparation of its report is already under way, I do not consider it timely to seek an independent international tribunal to examine compliance with the Geneva Convention since the invasion of Iraq. I await with interest the publication of the high commissioner's report. In addition, the US and UK Governments are now clearly focusing on their own internal investigations.
The recent evidence of prisoner abuse in Iraq has reminded the entire international community of the need to respect and maintain international law regarding the treatment of prisoners. The Government will continue to work to reinforce this point and thereby ensure that something positive may yet come from this appalling episode.
On a point of order, did the Minister indicate that he was answering Questions Nos. 2 and 5 together?
Yes.
He certainly did not answer Question No. 5.
The matter does not arise.
It is not the first time he has failed to answer a question.
I am grateful for the Minister's long reply. In one sentence, he disposed of the substance of the first question which asked whether he favoured an independent international tribunal, as favoured by Amnesty International and others, to examine compliance with the Geneva Convention on all sides since the invasion of Iraq.
While his statement on behalf of the Presidency on Monday evening is welcome, the absence of a statement by the Department of Foreign Affairs or the Presidency for such a long time after the atrocious acts in question took place caused great concern. Was the Minister aware of the report issued by the International Committee of the Red Cross last year? Does he agree the report suggests systematic abuse, rather than aberrant behaviour by a few individuals or those who have already been punished, to whom he referred? This raises a further question as to why, in the long period since the publication of the report, during which the Minister informed the House that he could not provide figures on the number of prisoners being held in Iraq, the issue of the systematic torture and abuse of prisoners was not addressed.
Is the Minister in a position to state that all those detained by US and British forces have available to them the protections of the Geneva Convention? He quoted the Secretary of State, Colin Powell, who has indicated that many people are citizens in disguise and that he will not accord the protections of the Geneva Convention to all of those detained. Is the Minister indicating that the Secretary of State's position has changed or that all prisoners are now in the same category of protection? Is this not a matter of interest to the Presidency of the European Union?
Is it the Minister's view that a female reservist aged 21 years from West Virginia who lived in a trailer park before joining the US army has suddenly invented these horrors with a couple of other people, given that photographs are available showing people standing around supervising torture and breaches of the Geneva Convention? The Minister is unable even to indicate how many people are being held prisoner in Iraq, the prisons in which they are being held or the level of protection they have been afforded.
Is the Minister suggesting that because the photographs which appeared in the Daily Mirror have been proved to be fake, British soldiers have not committed abuses? The British Ministry for Defence has sat on cases reported to it last year in breach of every known convention. Is it not disgraceful that we have been silent and waited so long to express an opinion?
I do not agree with the Deputy. The Government has publicly and strongly condemned the mistreatment and abuse of prisoners in Iraq by US and UK forces. I made the point regarding the statement by the British Foreign Secretary, Mr. Straw, on the photographs in the Daily Mirror for the purpose of providing information to the House. Mr. Straw also clearly stated that any member of the military under UK command would be answerable for any mistreatment, abuse or non-compliance with Geneva Convention requirements. I made the same point regarding the United States.
As regards the question on whether I support an independent tribunal, I simply made the point that the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights, which is regarded as independent, is conducting such an investigation and I await the findings of its report.
I did not personally have the contents of the Red Cross report but as soon as these matters came to light, the international community demanded that they be dealt with in a proper, transparent and comprehensive manner. Democracies must respond in a manner which shows that those who do not comply with requirements or meet their responsibilities will be held to account. We must also ensure that such incidents never happen again.
I share Deputies' abhorrence at what happened. I am simply informing the House that independent investigations are taking place, the outcome of which we await. We also await the results of the current congressional investigations and the manner in which countries whose forces have been involved in this type of behaviour deal with it.
Instead of using mealy-mouthed words in the House, will the Minister and the Taoiseach condemn these acts of abuse and torture to George W. Bush's face when he arrives here in June? There seems to be a pattern whereby the Minister claims, on the one hand, that he is on the side of the Americans while, on the other, that he is representing the values of the European Union.
Let us get to the nub of the issue. Does the Minister accept the reports published by the International Committee of the Red Cross and Amnesty International? In particular, does he accept the most damning evidence provided by Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker magazine who has stated that abuse and torture were systematic and part of a secret operation approved by Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice of which George W. Bush was aware? If that is the case, does he agree the best possible protest he could make would be to withdraw facilities at Shannon Airport for the American war effort in Iraq? What will it take for the Minister to act in a responsible way and to show he totally abhors this abuse and torture?
I will probably never be able to compete with the level of indignation the Deputy experiences while he questions everyone else's sincerity when they do not engage in the semantics and rhetoric in which he engages all the time.
It is not rhetoric.
I represented the EU Presidency correctly on this matter. I have had no criticism from colleagues about it. I stated our position clearly at every meeting and engagement the EU had with Arab countries, the Gulf Co-operation Council and President Bush and Secretary of State Powell. When the EU-US summit takes place in Ireland, these matters will be discussed, as they will at the G8 summit. We will make that clear consistently, as we have done.
Processes are in place to deal with these appalling events. Six congressional investigations are taking place in respect of the country concerned. The human rights commissioner's report is independent and I hold the International Red Cross in the highest esteem. I met the director general both here and in Geneva before Ireland took up the Presidency, and possibly during it, if I recall correctly. I need no lectures in this regard. I accept there has been an appalling breakdown, which needs to be addressed transparently. That is what democratic societies do.
Why will the Minister not withdraw the facilities provided at Shannon?
Shannon is a constant fixation of the Deputy's. The present political and diplomatic effort at the UN is to bring forward a resolution that will address the hand-over to an interim Government in Iraq from 1 July, consistent with transitional administrative law and to be decided upon by Iraqis themselves, and how the UN can create a political transition to end occupation and restore sovereignty to Iraq.
What has that got to do with Shannon?
Exactly.
I call Question No. 3. Twelve minutes were allotted for the two questions and they have concluded.
The Minister did not answer the question about Shannon.
The Chair has no responsibility in that regard.
3 Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the action he can take to help ensure the safe repatriation of the Colombia three following the recent trial verdict. [14784/04]
Amharc ar fhreagraSince the judge's decision in the case was announced on 26 April, officials from our embassy in Mexico, which is also accredited to Colombia, have been in close contact with the Colombian authorities, as well as the Dutch Ambassador in Bogota, who is representing our interests, and the Irish Honorary Consul in Bogota and they have reported back to me on a regular basis.
The judgment permits the men to be released from prison under "conditional freedom", on payment of a bond which is refundable at the end of their sentence. The amount of the bond for the three men is approximately €17,000. My Department has indicated that, to secure their early release and at the request of the defence team, it is willing to advance the funds to facilitate the payment of this bond, to expeditiously secure their safe release on the basis of a firm undertaking to repay this sum.
The present position is that the Attorney General of Colombia has lodged an appeal against the judgment in the case. The men's lawyers made a petition to the judge to allow them to leave the country after their release from prison while the appeal was being heard. Both the Taoiseach and I sent personal messages to the Colombian President and Foreign Minister respectively reiterating the desirability of facilitating the men's early departure from Colombia as the best way of ensuring their safety.
The judge ruled against the petition of the defence and, consequently, the men are required to remain in Columbia for the duration of the appeal. I have asked the Colombian authorities to expedite the hearing of the appeal so that this case can be concluded as quickly as possible. I assure the Deputy that, as from the start of this case, the Department of Foreign Affairs will continue to do its utmost to ensure the safety and well-being of the three men.
Both I and the families of the three men are appreciative of the work of the Minister and his officials. I have followed this case at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. The Minister has been interested in it and has done everything to the best of his ability, as have other Members, including Deputy Finian McGrath, who attended the trial. Appeals in Colombia can take years and there is no safe place for the men there. They have been found innocent of the main charge and they have served two years and nine months in appalling conditions in prison for a relatively minor offence. Does the Minister agree justice demands the men should be permitted to leave Colombia pending an appeal?
Will he clarify whether he or the Taoiseach has made direct contact with President Uribe or members of the Colombian Government? That is required to ensure the men are repatriated. Given that they have been found innocent of the main charge and have spent a long time in dreadful conditions in prison, will the Minister and the Taoiseach take the next step, which is to contact President Uribe directly and ask that these men be repatriated?
Contacts have been made on the basis of instructions from us and they are made through our ambassador and the Spanish. It helps to ensure that is done properly. The person making contact speaks with the full authority of the Government.
The problem in this case, as always, is the Colombian Government cannot interfere in the judicial system in the same way I cannot in Ireland. By the same token, given that the case has been sent to three appeals judges and the previous judge is no longer in the picture, I will make representations in every effective and appropriate way I can to convince people they should allow for the conditional freedom to be effected in a way that will enable them to come home and return to Colombia when the appeal is ready to be heard. I share the legitimate concern of people about the time an appeal will take and we also are making our views known on that matter. The question of influencing the situation for the better remains our top priority and we will continue to do everything we can.
