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Electricity Generation.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 29 June 2004

Tuesday, 29 June 2004

Ceisteanna (11)

Thomas P. Broughan

Ceist:

9 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources his views on the implications for energy policy of the recent suggestion from the chairman of the ESB that the company would require a double-digit increase in electricity prices in 2005; the amount of the dividend to be paid by the ESB to the Government in 2004; if the Government has considered forfeiting any of this dividend in order to reduce the financial pressure on the company and avert the need for an increase; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19193/04]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (25 píosaí cainte)

I am aware that the chairman of the ESB, when recently announcing the 2003 financial results of the company, intimated that higher electricity prices could be a possibility in the short term given the increase in oil, gas and coal prices over the past six years. However, I do not have a function concerning the pricing of electricity. The Commission for Energy Regulation was given responsibility for regulating ESB tariffs to its franchise customers under the European Communities (Internal Market in Electricity) Regulations 2000. Previously, the ESB would, by custom and practice, have sought Government approval before increasing its tariffs.

The CER set about a process of rebalancing tariffs ahead of full market opening in 2005, which is required to ensure that all tariffs fully reflect the cost of supplying different categories of customers and to prevent the under-recovery of generation costs. I am advised that the CER has commenced its review of the tariffs to apply from 1 January 2005 and it intends to announce the outcome of this review in September next.

The operations of State companies such as the ESB are increasingly taking place in the context of liberalised competitive markets and they are also increasingly engaged in activities outside their core business. In these circumstances, it is appropriate that they pay dividends to their shareholders out of their profits.

The Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) Act 2001, while providing for the establishment of an employee share ownership plan, ESOP, also repealed the company's break-even mandate which had existed since 1927. This, in essence, means that the ESB may declare and pay dividends in a manner akin to a commercial public limited company.

An agreement was reached between the ESB, the Department of Finance and my own Department on the question of ESB dividends. The agreement provided for a payment of 25% of profits for 2002, growing to 33% by 2005. It should, however, be pointed out that decisions on annual dividend payments to shareholders are ultimately a matter for the board of the ESB.

As regards the 2003 results, the board declared a total dividend of €67.1 million for the year. Some 95% of that amount, €63.7 million, is appropriate to the Exchequer and the remaining €3.4 million, representing 5%, is appropriate to the ESB ESOP.

The CER allows reasonable returns in the regulated segment of the ESB's business. There is no direct link between the CER's decision on prices and the ability of the company to pay dividends. In the circumstances, the question of forfeiture by the State of its portion of the 2003 dividend payment is not on the agenda.

Deputies were disappointed that the Minister was not present in the Chamber for the recent debate on Second Stage of the ESB Bill. His presence would have given us an opportunity to discuss with him in detail the future shape of the electricity market. Is it not true that the €67 million dividend operates as another stealth tax on consumers? The Minister needs to examine this in the context of future pricing, given that during his time in office we have seen a massive 29% increase in electricity prices, which amounts to a price explosion. There is a threat of more price increases to come, particularly concerning the Kyoto accords.

Last weekend was a bad time to be the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, given the bad news about the interconnector to the UK. The Commission for Energy Regulation has asked the Minister to scrap one of the two interconnectors. In the near future we could be threatened not just with amber alerts but also with blackouts because the workforce might withdraw its labour due to major industrial relations concerns. The crux of these concerns is the fact that workers, business, industry and consumers do not know what the Minister intends to do about the electricity market because he will not tell us.

The Deputy is widening the scope of his question.

The likelihood is that when next we meet we will have another Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

The Deputy has exceeded the one-minute limit allowed for his supplementary question.

We will never know what Deputy Dermot Ahern felt about the most important part of his portfolio.

The Deputy has taken nearly two minutes.

As usual, the Deputy is talking through his hat. The fact is that the taxpayer owns 95% of the ESB. Is the Deputy saying that the taxpayer should forgo a dividend in circumstances where that dividend can be used in general taxation to fund schools, roads and hospitals? This company is making a reasonable profit and we should be encouraging companies to do so. It is a pity more semi-State companies are not performing as well as this one.

Others are too.

The Labour Party appears to want it every way. The party should spell out how else we would get this money if not by means of the dividend.

The interconnector project has not been abandoned. That was a totally erroneous headline. I made it clear at the outset that the CER should investigate the possibilities of a merchant or revenue generating operation. There has been huge interest in the building of the interconnector or interconnectors. Although some companies will state we should only proceed with one at this time, it is Government policy that we proceed with two.

Will the Minister tell the CER?

I will listen to the experts in regard to whether we should build one at this time, with a view to building a second.

We must proceed to the next question.

Nonetheless, this is a significant development and I would not wish it to go out that the Government is not behind the building of an interconnector, because it is.

We have exceeded the time allotted for this question.

May I ask just one question?

A short question, very briefly.

The information from the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources is that gas prices will increase significantly in the short term no matter what happens on the world market because the long-term contracts into which Ireland entered are unfortunately coming to an end. Given that fact, what will the energy companies do to keep prices down if we do not raise prices? The Minister stated that the ESB is engaged in outside core business activities. Will he outline what those activities are?

If we could get the Corrib gas on stream it would help.

Preferably safely.

In that context, perhaps the Deputy will get some of his cohorts to withdraw their unreasonable objections to it.

The objections are totally reasonable.

In such circumstances, we might as a nation become self-sufficient in gas, which would reduce gas prices, particularly if we can discover more and more indigenous gas.

Will the Minister answer the question?

The ESB is involved in wind and other renewable energy projects and is investing in generation in other countries, thereby increasing its portfolio. Thankfully, all the company's decisions have been profitable for taxpayers and have lead to the company's increased profits.

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