Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 15 December 2004
28 Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if he will extend free travel to older Irish emigrants, at the very least to Irish pensioners living in the UK, when they return here on their holidays (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33766/04]
Amharc ar fhreagraThe free travel scheme is available to all people living in the State aged 66 years and over. It is also available to carers and to people with disabilities who are in receipt of certain social welfare payments. It applies to travel within the State and cross-Border journeys between here and Northern Ireland. There have been a number of proposals for extending entitlement to free travel to people living outside Ireland, including a proposal in the report of the task force on policy regarding emigrants, which was submitted to the Minister for Foreign Affairs in 2002.
This issue was examined in the review of the free schemes, which was published by the Policy Institute, Trinity College, Dublin, in 2000. The review considered that the main objective of the free travel scheme is to encourage older people and people with disabilities to remain independent and active within the community, thereby reducing the need for institutional care. It noted that extending the scheme to visitors would have significant administrative and cost implications, even if it was confined to those in receipt of Irish social welfare pensions. In 2000, it was estimated that the extension of the free travel scheme to EU pensioners could incur expenditure in the order of between €10 million and €19 million, depending on the level of concession granted.
The free travel scheme, in conjunction with the Northern Ireland concessionary travel scheme, provides free travel on cross-Border routes for pass holders of both jurisdictions. This scheme applies to cross-Border journeys and not to travel exclusively within either jurisdiction. There is a commitment in the programme for Government to put in place an all-Ireland free travel scheme for pensioners resident in all parts of this island. Implementation of the scheme will require detailed discussion and agreement with the relevant authorities and transport providers in both jurisdictions.
My predecessor met the Minister of State at the Department for Regional Development in Northern Ireland to explore the potential for co-operation between the two Departments in regard to the proposal. They discussed the options and scope for co-funding the scheme and considered various technical issues that arise. Shortly after taking up this post, I wrote to the Minister indicating my wish to move the issue forward. I recently received a response and I am considering its contents.
The Deputy's proposal to make free travel available to persons in receipt of Irish pensions, but living in the UK, would have to be examined in a budgetary context, taking account of the other demands for extension of the free travel scheme, the cost, administrative and legal, and the possible wider implications involved. However, I am mindful that this matter has been raised in the House a number of times recently and I will continue to examine carefully the issues involved.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive response. The usual reasons given for not doing something in this regard are economic reasons. Our people who went abroad as economic migrants never used the excuse of a budget or economic circumstances to forget us, even though they had every reason to do so. Between 1975 and 1995, in excess of £2 billion sterling was sent back in emigrants' remittances, which is a lot of money. On the administrative aspect of the scheme, people are receiving pensions, partial pensions and pre-1953 pensions, therefore, they are already in the system. I recently met a delegation of older people from the DUP in Northern Ireland who travelled down here free of charge, while an impoverished group of people from London who travelled to Ireland this week had to pay for their travel. That is wrong considering the wonderful contribution these people made to this country.
On the issue of EU citizens, the reason for non-inclusion of these people should be overlooked. There is a common travel area between Ireland and England. We got an EU derogation in that regard, as did the UK, because of the arrangement that already existed. This arrangement enabled our emigrants to travel to Britain to help that country to run its farms and factories and build its roads, rail network and so on. The derogation should also allow our citizens to return to Ireland. There are compelling reasons the free travel scheme should be extended to these people.
The task force report recommended strongly that the scheme should be widened because it would be of symbolic significance. Article 2 of the Constitution provides a new definition of the Irish nation. It provides an opportunity to put in place a new approach to looking after Irish citizens. Does the Minister believe that, as the task force suggests, Irish citizens are being denied their constitutional rights if this facility continues to be refused to them?
I pay tribute to Deputy Cowley for his well known work with emigrants and his leadership in this area, which is much admired. I said in my reply that I will continue to examine the matter. I do not have a closed mind on the matter, I just need to do some more homework on it. Some figures would help us to move the matter forward. The number of Irish people throughout the European Union in receipt of Irish pensions is approximately 40,000, about 30,000 of whom live in the UK or Northern Ireland. The cost of including these people in the scheme would be in the order of €10 million to €20 million. The aspect that must be considered is that free travel in this State is universal. Everyone over the age of 66 is entitled to free travel, irrespective of their means or whether they are in receipt of a pension. If one were to move in this direction, one would have to limit free travel to the 40,000 pensioners living abroad. One could not make free travel available to each citizen over the age of 66 throughout the European Union who travels here.
Another issue arises as to whether the EU would permit us to apply limitations outside Ireland that we do not apply in Ireland. I must research this matter because it is a tricky legal issue. In Ireland, free travel is not confined to pensioners, any citizen over the age of 66 is entitled to it. Confining free travel to 40,000 people at a cost of up to €20 million is obviously a policy option for the Government. The legal issue I must examine is whether we would be permitted to stop there. I do not think anyone would want to extend the scheme further, not that people would turn up in large numbers. I am conscious of the example the Deputy gave and I would like to facilitate emigrants who return home for particular reasons.
To clarify the issue, as there is a residency requirement, residents of the country are entitled to free travel in any event. Leaving aside the €20 million and the capacity of transport companies, the basic question is whether one can ring-fence the provision on a satisfactory legal basis, which is the issue I would like to research.
