Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 23 February 2005
62 Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of persons with disabilities, resident in institutions, who are in receipt of full and partial payments of the disability allowance; the number of persons with disabilities, residents in institutions, who do not receive the disability allowance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6227/05]
Amharc ar fhreagra64 Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if he will consider introducing controls to ensure that social welfare payments given to those in institutional care cannot be abused. [6340/05]
Amharc ar fhreagraI propose to take Questions Nos. 62 and 64 together.
Disability allowance is a personal allowance payable to people between 16 and 66 years of age who satisfy certain medical eligibility conditions and a means test. Under existing social welfare legislation, disability allowance is not payable where a person is resident in an institution and where the cost of his or her care and maintenance is being funded in whole or in part by the Health Service Executive.
Since the introduction of the scheme in 1996, the restriction on payments to people in institutional care has been progressively relaxed. For example, the Social Welfare Act 1999 made provision for the retention of entitlement to disability allowance where a person is on disability allowance and subsequently goes into institutional care. My Department does not hold precise figures on the number of people who are resident in institutions at any given time and who are in receipt of disability allowance. There are many such institutions and recipients may move between institutional or community-based settings and their home, depending on their circumstances. My Department's role is, in the first instance, to ensure payment of the allowance to the person concerned or their appointed agent.
With regard to the number of people with disabilities who are resident in institutions and who do not receive disability allowance, the Deputy will be aware that in the context of budget 2005, I announced that I would remove the restriction on entitlement to disability allowance in such cases. With effect from 1 June 2005, I will introduce a new weekly personal payment of up to €35 to people resident in institutions who are not getting a disability allowance payment. This allowance will replace the existing pocket money allowance which is paid to such residents by the Health Service Executive. My Department has already completed an information gathering process with the Health Service Executive with a view to arranging the payment of this new allowance. This process has identified that 2,469 persons with disabilities between 16 and 66 years of age, who currently reside in an institution on a permanent basis, do not have a disability allowance. The provisions for this allowance are contained in the current Social Welfare and Pensions Bill which is before the House.
In regard to payments to people in institutional care, the practice generally has been that when social welfare pensioners took up residence in long-stay residential care centres operated by the health boards, the board was appointed as an agent for the purpose of cashing the person's weekly pension or allowance and any charges towards the maintenance of people in institutions were normally deducted from these payments. Following instructions in December to the Health Service Executive, no maintenance charges for long-stay care are now being levied. Until such time as alternative arrangements can be made, the Health Service Executive has continued, in a temporary capacity, to act as an agent for the purpose of cashing pension or allowance books. These pension payments are being lodged in all cases to a patient's private property account which is being maintained by the Health Service Executive for each individual resident. Pensioners have full access to this account whenever they wish.
I understand that the Health Service Executive is in the process of writing to all social welfare pensioners in its care to advise them that maintenance charges no longer apply and that pension payments belong in full to pensioners themselves. Where a pensioner is unable, for whatever reason, to manage his or her own financial affairs, the Health Service Executive is making arrangements to inform the next-of-kin of the position. The HSE is also advising pensioners of the various options open to them for receiving their pension payments. These comprise continuation of the existing arrangement whereby the HSE cashes the pension book on the pensioner's behalf and lodges the payment to the patient's private property account; payment of the pension into a bank or building society account or a post office pensions savings account; and cashing the pension at a post office by the pensioner or appointment of another person, such as a relative, to act as an agent to cash the pension book on the pensioner's behalf.
A national implementation group of the HSE is responsible for ensuring that pensioners are fully advised of these new arrangements and my Department is represented on this group. My Department has primary responsibility for issuing payments to pensioners and ensuring that they are satisfied with the method of payment and the security of their payments. I have asked my officials to liaise with the Department of Health and Children and the Health Service Executive to ensure that all appropriate arrangements are made in this regard.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. Will he agree with me that two people with disabilities in adjoining beds in one of these institutions will receive two separate payments? One will be entitled to the full disability allowance and the other person, who is currently receiving a pocket money allowance, will receive €35 a week after 1 June. Both of these people are citizens of the State, yet both are being treated differently. Will the Minister agree that this is inequitable and unfair? Is it his intention in the long term to move to a situation where all patients will get the full disability allowance and, if so, will he give a timescale for it? Will he consider treating equally all patients in residential care and extending aid to all those who would be eligible if they were outside at this point? Following the Supreme Court ruling, what are the implications for people with disabilities living in long-term care who had part of their disability allowance taken from them as a charge for their care? Will the Statute of Limitations apply in that instance? Is the Minister's Department making repayments to these people and their families?
The Deputy and I had a brief discussion on this matter on committee yesterday and no doubt we will return to it later. The Deputy will be aware that these people were not included prior to the 1999 legislation. After 1999, people who went into an institution could bring their disability allowance with them, therefore, they were entitled to the full disability allowance by virtue of going into an institution. What I did in the budget, and what I am seeking to do in the legislation, is to ensure that the 2,400 or so people who were in institutions prior to 1999 will receive the first instalment of what should ultimately become the full disability allowance. It is my ambition to bring the current rate of €35 a week up to what over time will be equal to the full disability allowance, because these people have been left behind from an income point of view.
The Department of Health and Children is dealing with the other issue to which the Deputy referred. It relates to the proportion of one's allowance or pension that can be retained by the institution. The Department of Health and Children is drawing up legislation to deal with this issue. It will apply across the board, irrespective of the pace at which we get the €35 a week up to the full disability allowance level. I want people in adjoining beds in the same institution, with the same means, to get the same income, which is theirs alone. The proportion of that income which can be taken by the institution will be laid down in legislation. The payment of up to €35, which is a means-tested payment, is a step in the direction of catching up for these people who were pre-1999 and, therefore, did not have a disability allowance in the institution.
My questions to the Minister are threefold. While he has already answered some aspects of them, I will ask again in order to get more detailed information. Given the differing rates of payment he intends to introduce under the new Social Welfare and Pensions Bill, is the Minister satisfied that any constitutional implications have been satisfied? In light of the difficulty in which the Government has already found itself following the court decision, is he satisfied that the different rates of payment to people with similar entitlements will not cause further trouble in the future? Is the Minister able to put a cost implication on the aspect of people in receipt of disability payments, in particular, and other social welfare payments, other than pensioners, who have been affected by the court decision? Will the Minister indicate the cost implication of that element alone because media reportage on this area to date has been solely on the pensioners issue?
My question is broader than abuse in which the Government might have been involved through poor regulation and poor management. Some family members and people known to the social welfare recipients abuse social welfare payments to people in institutional care. To what extent has the Department identified this to be a problem and what suggestions has it made to ensure that people cannot remove cheque payments from books, cash them outside the institution in question, pocket the money received and not use it for what it was intended? We are all aware that potential abuses exist and abuse is practised. Is the Minister and his Department aware of such abuse and what steps are being taken to prevent it occurring?
I thank the Deputy for those questions. There are two parts to this issue. One is the income part, which is the property of the person in receipt of the disability allowance or this new allowance. The other part is the amount the institution is permitted to have paid to it, which will be dealt with under legislation going forward. The first part of the issue is not involved in the constitutional debate we have had because these are income payments made to individuals under law. Different payments are made to people under law depending on their various circumstances at the time. There are many cases where different rates of payment are made to people in broadly similar, but not identical, circumstances. Different rates can be paid in what appear to be similar circumstances but which are not quite the same. That is governed by legislation. Social welfare legislation laid down certain regulations in 1999 and prior to that such legislation laid down different rates.
The first part of this issue concerning disability allowances in residential institutions is the income side and in so far as that has been governed by law, it is legal and above board to have different rates. The second side of the issue, the charges for such care, is the side with which the Department of Health and Children deals. We have to separate those two issues. In so far as the second part of the issue has constitutional implications, they are the same as those that have been discussed by the Tánaiste and by other Members of the House in regard to payment for care. We have to separate the income side from the expenditure side, which is the constitutional area, and that is being dealt with.
I condemn any abuse by family members or anybody else — I assume that was what the Deputy was getting at — who do not play it fair with persons in residential institutions, be they relatives or persons for whom they are responsible or over whom they have some charge. I do not have any great statistics or information on that area. My Department tries to monitor, as best it can, how these arrangements work on the ground, but we do not have a great deal of information on that area.
