Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 29 September 2010
110 Deputy Simon Coveney asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills in view of the review carried out by her Department into possible areas for the transfer of school ownership, the further discussions she has had with stakeholders on the matter; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [33597/10]
Amharc ar fhreagraOn 3 August 2010, the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills published the outcome of work undertaken by her Department, at the request of the Catholic Church, to identify areas that may offer potential for the church to divest its patronage of certain primary schools. The possibility of the Catholic Church divesting itself of certain primary schools was raised by the church with her predecessor and discussed at a meeting in November 2009 with senior representatives of the church. At the request of those senior representatives, the Department undertook to identify possible areas where the demographics and existing school configuration was such that there might be potential for the Catholic Church to consider divesting patronage.
This report is now being considered by the Catholic Church authorities. They may now wish to identify some areas to trial the modalities by which the number of Catholic schools could be reduced, thus releasing some schools for other patrons. The decision on the identity of the particular Catholic school or schools to be trialed will ultimately rest with the local bishop, as patron, and the Catholic community in the parish or parishes concerned. It must also follow consultation with the parent body and staff of the schools.
Should the Catholic Church identify any such schools, there will be a need to put in place a range of processes, including appropriate consultation with staff, to address the implementation issues that might arise, such as ownership of buildings and transfer of staff. These will include the necessary arrangements to consult and decide on the future patronage of identified schools.
A meeting with representatives of the Catholic Church authorities is planned for today to explain the technicalities underpinning the information which was published. While the Department has had no further discussions to date on these matters, issues around the recognition of new primary schools are being considered by the Commission on School Accommodation Needs for which the Department provides the secretariat. Following consideration of a draft report from its technical working group at a meeting in June, the commission's chairperson, supported by a secretariat of staff from the Department, has had several bilateral meetings in August and September with groups which have nominated members to the commission.
Why are these discussions being held behind closed doors? What progress has been made in identifying possible schools to be handed over? Is there a timeline for the possible transfer of those identified schools?
The church does not do time.
Yet it will make people do time.
We are talking about thousands of years. I hope it will not take thousands of years in this case.
A list of areas identified is contained in the departmental report. There is no secrecy attached to this process. A meeting has already taken place at the Department's offices in Marlborough Street. No secrecy is attached to this matter as the results of this, and other meetings, have been made public through various press releases and statements. A meeting is taking place today with the representatives of the Catholic Church to discuss the report's technicalities and how it will operate. This is a long-standing and, possibly, sensitive issue. Arising from an initiative made by the Catholic Church, and in particular the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Diarmuid Martin, the process has been set in train and is continuing.
Does the Minister of State agree the process was initiated by the archbishop, Dr. Diarmuid Martin, who said having 92% of schools managed by the Catholic Church was untenable and that 50% would be more appropriate to cater for the Catholic community? Will the Minister of State confirm, as has been stated in publicly released documents, that the deputation from the Irish Catholic Bishops' Conference which met with the Department said it would only consider surrendering the patronage of schools in certain areas in return for the granting of patronage of new schools in built-up areas? This is tantamount to the Catholic Church asserting it will hold what it has already.
All that is a matter of opinion.
It is a matter of record.
I am endeavouring to put the facts on the record of the House. Implementing this on the ground will be problematic. As I mentioned, there will be a need for widespread consultation and a range of issues will need to be clarified. It is my understanding that the Department is dealing with the Catholic Church on this issue.
Will the Minister of State offer his opinion as to whether we could have a better outcome for everyone involved if such discussions were conducted in the public domain at a forum in which all stakeholders could participate and the rest of the public could observe the proceedings? Will he agree there should be no more secrecy behind closed doors in the negotiations on this matter between the Catholic Church and the Department of Education and Skills?
It is not the Department's intention to have any secrecy attached to this process because it is a controversial issue in some respects for some people. From our point of view, there is no need for secrecy in these discussions.
So the Minister of State is saying "Yes" to such a forum.
The House had a day-long discussion about this particular issue. That was a good debate which allowed for full public interaction on the issue.
It also led to a refusal to have a forum.
