Departmental Officials’ Remuneration

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 3 May 2011

Tuesday, 3 May 2011

Ceisteanna (9)

Shane Ross

Ceist:

32 Deputy Shane Ross asked the Minister for Finance if he will provide the names of the most highly paid officials in his Department over the past three years; the basic salaries paid to them; the bonuses paid to them; the expenses incurred by them; the details of any bonuses not paid to top officials for which they were eligible; if officials in his Department are better paid than equivalent grades in other Departments and the reason this is so and if he will continue this practice. [9894/11]

Freagraí ó Béal (15 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Michael Noonan

In my Department over the past three years, the following are the highest paid officials in the Department of Finance, in addition to officials in the newly established Department of public expenditure and reform.

Grade	Current Salary
	€
Secretary General, Department of Finance (salary on retirement — January 2010)	228,466
Secretary General, Department of Finance	228,466
Secretary General, Public Service Management Division	215,590
Secretary General, Department of public expenditure and reform	200,000

In April of 2009, the then Minister for Finance asked the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector to undertake a fresh review of top level public service pay, to take account of the changed budgetary and economic circumstances, the changed private sector pay environment, and to compare pay against that of other countries of comparable scale, particularly in the eurozone. The report was published in December of 2009.

Previously, the review body completed its last general review of top public service pay in September of 2007, but relevant increases recommended by that review were never implemented.

As a result of its 2009 examination of top level public service pay, the review body report of 11 December 2009 recommended reductions in pay varying from 8% to 15% generally. It also recommended that there be no increases in the pay of the higher public service groups, including any adjustments that might otherwise arise under national agreements before the end of 2012. For Secretaries General, the review group recommended a reduction of 15% for level 1 Secretaries General, that is, Secretaries General of the Departments of the Taoiseach and Finance. The Secretaries General concerned volunteered to accept a reduction of 20%. This resulted in a reduction in the salary of the Secretary General in the Department of Finance from €285,341 to €228,466 — a decrease of €56,875. This salary of €228,466 was the same as the salary for the Taoiseach.

Upon receipt of the December 2009 review body report, the Government decided to introduce a new reduced pay rate for Secretaries General, level 2, appointed after 1 July 2010 to align with the then salary of a Minister. This level applies to the Secretary General, public service management division in the Department of the Finance. This resulted in a 15% reduction in salary from €253,635 to €215,590 — a decrease of €38,045.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

It should be noted that the Secretary General in the Department of Finance and the Secretary General, Public Service Management Division in the Department of the Finance both accepted a further voluntary reduction in their salaries, by way of a gift back to the Minister for Finance. This voluntary reduction reduces these salaries to €214,187 which is in line with other existing staff at the Secretary General, level 2, in other Departments. In order to provide an appropriate differential between levels, the Secretary General level 3 rate was also adjusted downwards for new appointees from the same date. This salary level, which applies to the grades of second secretary in the Department of Finance, was also reduced by 15% from €221,929 to €188,640 — a decrease of €33,289. The Department of public expenditure and reform is currently examining the salary levels of certain Civil Service grades.

Expenses and bonuses

In terms of expenses, it should be noted that the only expenses payable to the officials covered by the Deputy's question cover work-related travel and subsistence, or recoupment of certain other expenses on a vouched basis. The information in this regard for travel and subsistence of relevant officials in the Department of Finance and the newly established Department of public expenditure and reform, over a three year period, are as follows:

Grade	Expenses
	€
Secretary General, Department of Finance (until retirement in January of 2010)	0
Secretary General, Department of Finance	3,056
Secretary General, Public Service Management Division	2,376
Second Secretary	1,546
Second Secretary	32,489
Second Secretary	1,422
Secretary General, Department of public expenditure and reform	N/A*Department of public expenditure and reform

Bonus payments are not applicable to these grades. (Schemes of performance-related awards applicable to the grades of Deputy Secretary and Assistant Secretary were terminated in 2009).

Deputy Shane Ross

I am happy if the Minister does not want to read out the figures and just replies to the substantive issues I raised.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask a supplementary question.

Deputy Shane Ross

Will the Minister outline details of bonuses paid to top officials and say, in particular, if they have been paid recently? Are officials in his Department paid more than those in equivalent grades in other Departments? If so, why? Will this practice continue?

Deputy Michael Noonan

I understand that there have been Secretaries General on a finance scale, which also applied to Secretaries General of the Department of Taoiseach, and that was higher than the rate paid to other Secretaries General. However, bonuses have not been paid to these civil servants for several years. I am trying to find the reference but no bonuses have been paid.

Deputy Shane Ross

I do not understand why officials in the Department of Finance should be paid more than anybody else in the public service. The figures the Minister read out are pretty staggering even in their reduced form. Will he comment on the fact that officials in the Department, long regarded as the crème de la crème of the public service, are for some extraordinary reason paid more than other officials at the top level elsewhere in the public service? We need a response to that, particularly given media reports over the weekend suggesting that those who had a contrarian view to the predominant view in the Department during the property boom were silenced, their concerns were kept quiet and they were told not to raise them. Those who wished to raise them at a higher level were made to bury them and those who wanted to write articles for the newspapers had to withdraw them. We were paying these people more for results than anybody else in the public service.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

A question, please.

Deputy Shane Ross

Deputy Doherty raised the issue of Colm Doherty, the chief executive office of AIB, being paid outrageous amounts, which were obviously signed off by individuals at the highest level in the Department of Finance, who themselves are on this gravy train. Is the Minister satisfied with the continuing process whereby these people are paid more and, in turn, award more in redundancy payments to bankers? This circle has to be broken and a start must be made in the Department of Finance. What does the Minster intend to do about that at the top of the Department of which he is in charge?

Deputy Michael Noonan

The salary levels in the Department, according to the Department, reflect the grading structure of the Department, which, in turn, reflects the evolution of the Department over time. The structure of the Department represents the amalgamation of three separate Departments at various stages — finance, public service and economic planning and development. The structure also reflects the nature of the work undertaken by the Department, which is different. The system grew up over time. That is the position and it will change again as soon as the legislation comes in to put in place the Department of public expenditure and reform because we are dividing the Department. However, we are dealing with many historic issues and I am sure the Deputy will appreciate that. As long as I have been in politics, the Secretaries Generals and senior staff in the Departments of Finance and the Taoiseach have been on a higher rate of remuneration than their equivalents in other Departments.

Deputy Shane Ross

I have one quick supplementary question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

No, I have been generous to the Deputy.

Deputy Shane Ross

It is just one sentence. These are the people who have prime responsibility for the economic collapse and these are the people who are paid most for their actual performance. Is the Minister satisfied with that?

Deputy Michael Noonan

I do not agree that they have prime responsibility for the economic collapse. All the reports into the economic collapse apportion blame across sectors from the leading politicians to the leading bankers, developers, media commentators and civil servants. There is a fair burden of blame. I do not want to remind the Deputy of what he wrote in 2004 and 2005.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Only the socialists called it right.

Deputy Michael Noonan

Was Deputy Ross not the man who was promoting the candidacy of Sean FitzPatrick for the board of the Central Bank?