Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 13 November 2012
100. Deputy Willie O'Dea asked the Minister for Social Protection when she will publish the report of the advisory group on tax and social welfare; the conclusions of the report on child benefit rates; her future plans for child benefit rates; if the child benefit rate will be protected; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [49974/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraCreating jobs and tackling poverty are two of the key challenges that Ireland now faces and it is essential that our tax and social protection systems play their part in addressing these issues.
To this end and in line with commitments contained in the programme for Government, I established last year the advisory group on tax and social welfare, with the aim of harnessing expert opinion and experience to examine a number of specific issues and make cost-effective proposals aimed at improving employment incentives and achieving better poverty outcomes, particularly in dealing with child poverty. Total social welfare expenditure on children is some €3 billion this year. The group's overall method of working is based on producing modular reports on the priority areas identified in the terms of reference. The group commenced its work programme by prioritising family and child income supports and subsequently submitting its report to me. I am considering the findings of the group's report which I intend to publish n due course. The report is, therefore, not yet in the public domain and I do not propose to comment on it or disclose the recommendations of the group at this time.
The Government is conscious that child benefit, as a universal payment, is an important source of income for all families with children, especially during a time of recession and high unemployment. It is envisaged that any proposed change to the child benefit payment would be considered in the context of the annual budget and announced on budget day. Therefore, in line with normal practice, I do not intend to say anything about the Government's intentions at this time.
I remind the Minister about some of the sentiments expressed by her and her party leader in opposition. For example, in February 2011, in the teeth of a general election campaign, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, when asked what would be of central importance to the Labour Party in entering government, stated, "[Things] like not cutting child benefit any further. Enough is enough. Families can take no more." Exactly one year before he stated: "It is the only State recognition that there is of mothers because it is paid directly to mothers ... Does Labour see room for some cuts? No, we don’t." On 19 February 2011 he stated: "Fine Gael need to drop their plans to cut child benefit, that's one, so let's start with that one."
In 2010 the Minister, Deputy Joan Burton, stated: "There's a lot of big houses all around the country where, inside those houses, there's actually very little money because people are at the pin of their collar paying their mortgages and the child benefit is a critical income support to put food on the table."
A question, please.
At the launch of the Labour Party policy on 23 February 2011 it was stated child benefit was often the lifeline which helped to keep food on the table and the house warm and that any further cut would create a genuine crisis.
Despite these clear, definitive and unambiguous words, the basis on which many voted for the Minister's party in the general election, in last year's budget she imposed cuts. As she is aware, some of the cuts extend over a two year period and some have yet to take effect. People will move into 2013 with a cut already due as a result of the provisions included in last year's budget. I ask this question in response to a significant campaign and a considerable number of requests I have received from constituents and further afield. Does the Minister intend to impose more cuts on top of those already imposed?
The Deputy will be aware that when he was a member of the Government-----
We are talking about today and tomorrow, not yesterday.
-----one of the first actions of the Government of which he was a member in the context of the crisis it brought onto the country when it introduced the fatal bank guarantee was to cut child benefit.
"Enough is enough" is what the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, stated.
As I stated, child benefit is an important support, particularly for parents. It is paid to the caring parent. There is strong recognition in Ireland that it is an important payment to families because we do not recognise children in the tax system in terms of tax allowances. Child benefit accounts for a sum of €2 billion. Family income supplement accounts for another €200 million, while qualified child allowances amount to €700 million.
The back to school clothing and footwear allowances amount to €63 million. That is a total spend of €3 billion on child and family income supports. The purpose of the review group is to determine how we can best use that funding to maintain support for families and how we can target it in a way that produces better outcomes for children who may be at risk of poverty. I am conscious, because of what Deputy O'Dea's party did to this country, that there are many families for whom child benefit is an important part of family income.
The situation has not got any better in the last two years.
That is also true of the other payments to children. It is wrong of Fianna Fáil to decide that it is not even possible, given the way Deputy O'Dea is exclaiming here, to review or examine the entire set of payments to children and families to see if we can spend money in a way that is more targeted while retaining a strong universal element. We are trying to determine whether we can spend the funds in a way that is targeted particularly towards poorer families with children, whether in or out of work, so that poverty outcomes for children are improved.
The Minister stated that the spend is €3 billion, but it was also €3 billion two years ago - when one takes account of the change in the value of money - when Deputy Burton said that enough was enough and there should be no more child care cuts. The Minister spoke about what she said, but what she said does not have any meaning. I am reporting what she said, as opposed to what she did.
I am not opposed to targeting at all and neither am I opposed to making people who are earning colossal amounts of money pay tax, at the very minimum, on their child benefit. I wish to draw the Minister's attention to the fact that the Irish League of Credit Unions recently conducted a survey which showed that there are 1.85 million people whose disposable income, after all of their bills have been paid, is less than €100 per month. The survey also showed that 40% of households had to borrow money last year to pay household bills and almost one quarter of those had to resort to moneylenders. People have been subjected to increases in the cost of school transport, carbon taxes and a whole raft of other costs, including an increase in the third level registration fee, which was not supposed to happen, according to a solemn pledge signed in full view of the nation on television. There are now 750,000 people living below the internationally recognised poverty line and approximately 250,000 of those are children. Low and middle income earners have had their taxes increased by way of a reduction of 6% in tax bands and a reduction of 10% in tax credits. They are literally at the pin of their collars. Again, I ask the Minister to give people some reassurance today regarding child benefit, upon which so many families are dependent.
In her initial reply, the Minister said she would publish this report "in due course". What does that mean? Does it mean this year, next year or in five years' time?
I am just looking at Fianna Fáil's record, which shows that in 2010 its spend in government on child benefit was €2.2 billion. In 2011, the figure was €2 billion, and this year-----
I asked the Minister about tomorrow, not yesterday.
I ask Deputy O'Dea to allow me to give him the figures-----
The Minister's figures are as false as her statements in opposition.
-----because he is a bit free and easy with information which is potentially misleading.
She said there was no room for further cuts.
The spend by Fianna Fáil in 2011 was €2.076 billion and the estimated spend-----
The Minister was going to change all that.
The estimated spend-----
The Minister was going to change all that. What about her promises?
The Deputy should not be getting agitated. If we are going to have a debate-----
What about her unambiguous words? She was going to change all of it. Hers is the party the people voted for.
I ask Deputy O'Dea to allow the Minister to speak.
They voted for the Minister on the basis that she was going to change all of that.
Order, please.
I urge the Deputy to try to calm himself.
I am very calm.
His blood pressure must be sky high. He should try to calm down.
I am very, very calm. The Minister does not like having her own words quoted back at her.
This year under the Labour Party-----
Lie after lie after lie.
The Deputy should calm himself.
Could I be a calming influence?
The Deputy will scare the children of the country if they are looking in.
They will be scared when child benefit is cut again.
The Deputy should try to calm himself. This year under the Labour Party, expenditure on child benefit has increased.
Are they getting more?
The total is now €2.078 billion.
The Government cut child benefit.
They are the statistics. Fianna Fáil and the Deputy, in particular, have always been afraid of statistics.
Who does the Minister think she is fooling?
That is a significant level of expenditure. Supports for families and children amount to more than €3 billion. Expenditure on child benefit has actually increased slightly and the Deputy should be big enough to acknowledge this. On the work of the review group-----
We have not seen the report.
-----it is good policy to examine how money is spent on children and determine whether we can target it in a way that produces better outcomes for children and families, particularly those at risk of poverty, whether at work in low income jobs or entirely dependent on social protection.
When is the Minister going to publish the report? It is the people's report; they paid for it. Is that her concept of transparency?
