Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 18 June 2013
2. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien asked the Taoiseach the numbers of students who are currently studying or hold a degree based on the socio-economic groups as defined in the most recent census; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51336/12]
Amharc ar fhreagraInformation on the number of students by socioeconomic group is available from the census of population which was taken in April 2011. The results show that there were 156,599 post-secondary school students in Ireland at the time of the census, of whom some 24,187 hold a degree or higher qualification.
The following table shows the breakdown of students by age and socioeconomic group. The data in the table show all post-secondary school students aged 16 to 23 at the time of the census. A total of 11 different socioeconomic groups are set down by definition on the Central Statistics Office, CSO, website. The statistics were not compiled by the Minister. They are an independent socioeconomic group breakdown. The student data refer to post-secondary school students only, namely, those who have completed their leaving certificate. The table provides details of the total number of students in each category and shows where a degree or higher has been obtained. I will revert to the Deputy with further information which I have available.
Highest level of education of post-secondary school students by socioeconomic group
|
Age |
All socioeconomic groups |
Employers and managers |
Higher professional |
Lower professional |
Non-manual |
Manual skilled |
Semi-skilled |
Unskilled |
Own account workers |
Farmers |
Agricultural workers |
All others gainfully occupied and unknown |
|
|
Total |
Total |
156,599 |
24,679 |
8,196 |
15,753 |
24,662 |
6,893 |
7,362 |
2,612 |
4,048 |
3,799 |
272 |
58,323 |
|
Non-degree |
132,412 |
21,329 |
7,222 |
13,752 |
21,272 |
6,007 |
6,387 |
2,339 |
3,472 |
3,128 |
233 |
47,271 |
|
|
Degree or higher |
24,187 |
3,350 |
974 |
2,001 |
3,390 |
886 |
975 |
273 |
576 |
671 |
39 |
11,052 |
|
|
16 |
Total |
3,788 |
510 |
136 |
329 |
720 |
266 |
307 |
180 |
135 |
93 |
15 |
1,097 |
|
Non-degree |
3,788 |
510 |
136 |
329 |
720 |
266 |
307 |
180 |
135 |
93 |
15 |
1,097 |
|
|
17 |
Total |
8,689 |
1,270 |
311 |
822 |
1915 |
649 |
705 |
359 |
285 |
224 |
26 |
2,123 |
|
Non-degree |
8,689 |
1,270 |
311 |
822 |
1915 |
649 |
705 |
359 |
285 |
224 |
26 |
2,123 |
|
|
18 |
Total |
21,902 |
3,461 |
987 |
2,205 |
4,164 |
1,311 |
1,407 |
529 |
719 |
616 |
57 |
6,446 |
|
Non-degree |
21,902 |
3,461 |
987 |
2,205 |
4,164 |
1,311 |
1,407 |
529 |
719 |
616 |
57 |
6,446 |
|
|
19 |
Total |
33,621 |
5,874 |
1,915 |
3,622 |
5,548 |
1,527 |
1,612 |
508 |
938 |
827 |
56 |
11,194 |
|
Non-degree |
31,881 |
5,587 |
1,858 |
3,502 |
5,219 |
1,443 |
1,503 |
481 |
870 |
761 |
55 |
10,602 |
|
|
Degree or higher |
1,740 |
287 |
57 |
120 |
329 |
84 |
109 |
27 |
68 |
66 |
1 |
592 |
|
|
20 |
Total |
31,645 |
5,236 |
1,743 |
3,338 |
4,746 |
1,304 |
1,301 |
398 |
738 |
765 |
42 |
12,034 |
|
Non-degree |
28,108 |
4,727 |
1,649 |
3,053 |
4,168 |
1,116 |
1,117 |
351 |
644 |
645 |
37 |
10,601 |
|
|
Degree or higher |
3,537 |
509 |
94 |
285 |
578 |
188 |
184 |
47 |
94 |
120 |
5 |
1,433 |
|
|
21 |
Total |
26,257 |
4,071 |
1,477 |
2,628 |
3,639 |
853 |
952 |
285 |
605 |
668 |
30 |
11,049 |
|
Non-degree |
20,314 |
3,242 |
1,280 |
2,162 |
2,769 |
650 |
667 |
215 |
453 |
476 |
21 |
8,379 |
|
|
Degree or higher |
5,943 |
829 |
197 |
466 |
870 |
203 |
285 |
70 |
152 |
192 |
9 |
2,670 |
|
|
22 |
Total |
18,778 |
2,743 |
1,030 |
1,799 |
2,436 |
625 |
692 |
217 |
402 |
379 |
25 |
8,430 |
|
Non-degree |
11,743 |
1,756 |
718 |
1,158 |
1,512 |
383 |
444 |
144 |
240 |
214 |
13 |
5,161 |
|
|
Degree or higher |
7,035 |
987 |
312 |
641 |
924 |
242 |
248 |
73 |
162 |
165 |
12 |
3,269 |
|
|
23 |
Total |
11,919 |
1,514 |
597 |
1,010 |
1,494 |
358 |
386 |
136 |
226 |
227 |
21 |
5,950 |
|
Non-degree |
5,987 |
776 |
283 |
521 |
805 |
189 |
237 |
80 |
126 |
99 |
9 |
2,862 |
|
|
Degree or higher |
5,932 |
738 |
314 |
489 |
689 |
169 |
149 |
56 |
100 |
128 |
12 |
3,088 |
It is a pity I do not have the table to hand because it would be interesting to examine the statistics, but I understand the table will be circulated with the reply in due course. Data released in March by the Higher Education Authority showed the greatest increase in those entering third level are from families with jobs that tend to be better paid. The findings also show a drop in college entry from people from less wealthy backgrounds. That is unsurprising but it is worrying. In my area there is particular concern not only about third level education but also second level. It has been found that Traveller children are dropping out of education at a very early age once again, despite the cycle having been broken. The same is true of those who in recent years were encouraged to continue until the leaving certificate and, thankfully, due to grants, were able to continue on to third level. We find that there has been a drift backwards.
What steps could be taken to ensure statistics are updated continually because the gap between each census is a long one? How could we address the issue, other than relying on the Higher Education Authority? Could we take other steps to ensure that data from the colleges are analysed every year by the Central Statistics Office to confirm or deny the recent trend, which is reverting back to where we were before the boom?
The figures show that a much higher percentage of persons classified as being in the employers and managers socioeconomic group - 77.6% - were pursuing post-secondary school education compared with those classified as semi-skilled - 40% - or unskilled - 39.1%. As Deputy Ó Snodaigh correctly pointed out, a lot more people from a home with greater income or professional status are studying in post-secondary school education.
Improvements have been made to ensure students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds get into college. One of the main factors, going back a long time, was free education, which levelled the playing field for everyone. The grant system for third level was extremely helpful in helping students from disadvantaged communities to get into college. Although the non-manual group was the largest group in the country among the age group provided, it accounted for the second largest group of students in absolute numbers, with 24,662. However, 33% of persons in the non-manual group were students compared with, for example, 77% of those in the employers and managers group. The number of those studying was highest for those aged 19, with increasing percentages of those with a degree or higher as one moves up the age groups. Of those studying aged 23, nearly half had a degree or higher qualification, with higher professionals and farmers having more persons holding a degree or higher than those holding no degree.
Progress had been made and now society, but in particular the Government, is undoing the good work that had been done. That will have dire consequences unless it is addressed. There are a number of reasons for the decline in the number of people from lower income socioeconomic groups going to college. One reason is less disposable income. The statistics bear that out. The Minister of State referred to students from the socioeconomic category of non-skilled or manual being less likely to go to university. In some cases it is due to lack of hope and the desire to emigrate. Traveller groups and the long-term unemployed are other groups of concern in that regard.
Representation was made to me by a 21 year old woman who is going into her third year in college. She will be totally dependent for the duration of the summer on her parents who are unemployed. She has no access to any income. The difficulty she faces is trying to survive and to hold on to go back to college. She is from Ballyfermot, one of the areas that has had the lowest third level attainment for many years, and the cycle there was starting to be broken. She is trying to find a solution. The maintenance grant stops at the end of the university term. There is no encouragement for her other than the desire to continue to educate herself. She must try, like everyone else who is unemployed, to find a job. Some method must be found to address the competing demands on a young woman such as I outlined whose course of study would benefit community and society in terms of preventative therapies for children at risk, to which I referred earlier, and to help combat suicide. She was wondering whether she could afford to go back to college because she will have to spend three if not four months without any income. That is an illustration of the competing demands. In the past, at least one parent in a household might have been working and could have sustained a student during the summer, but the more the Government cuts, the less disposable income is available to families and the more likely it is that there will be a greater degree of drop-out from people among that cohort in society who are unemployed or in disadvantaged communities. Does the Minister of State have statistics on the number of students who drop out of college and their socioeconomic breakdown?
I regret that I do not have the figures the Deputy sought but I understand the Central Statistics Office will be happy to liaise with him on any further data it might be able to provide to him. It was incumbent on the office to answer the question asked but it would be happy to provide further information.
I agree that we must ensure particular supports are available to disadvantaged groups and minorities in society who have traditionally not participated fully in education.
In my constituency, an integrated Traveller programme for the county will be launched shortly, to which we have all been invited. It is very important for Members to be aware of this point of view for and, on behalf of groups of which the Deputy speaks, to be part of the progress they wish to make and to assist and help them in every possible way, given the difficult circumstances many of them are in. However, I will pass on the Deputy's comments to the Ministers concerned and to the Central Statistics Office.
All Members are seriously concerned about the plight of those who are less privileged, those lower income categories to which Deputy Ó Snodaigh has referred. It is good that on occasions such as this, Members have an opportunity to discuss what are the real impacts of the changes on the education system. I commend the Minister of State on his acknowledgement that successive Governments over the years have focused seriously on the area of educational disadvantage, in the realisation of what could be done were this challenge to be tackled. Equally, notwithstanding the pressures the Government is under at present, all Members must ensure the area of educational disadvantage is prioritised and they must consider the impact policies are having. There is no doubt but that the curtailment of the guidance service is having an impact, particularly on those who are less well off. Student fees have an impact, albeit perhaps not as much on those who are really disadvantaged as their eligibility for grants is pretty evident fairly early on. However, the speed at which the grants are being processed by the new agency was a problem last year and I believe everyone will agree to hope it will not be a problem in the current year. Larger classes are a problem, particularly for children who have learning difficulties and who come from disadvantaged backgrounds.
Moreover, difficulties are being encountered and problems are arising nationwide with the Youthreach programme and with the vocational training opportunities scheme, VTOS, and I will concentrate on the former. In areas of particularly high levels of youth unemployment, Youthreach provides an opportunity to deal with it in a constructive and positive way. Moreover, all Members have found the outcomes from the Youthreach programme predominately have been successful. The schemes have had a great level of success and many of them have encouraged their students to go on to third level education of some form. The point I am trying to make is notwithstanding the difficulties the Government and the Department of Education Skills are under, one must consider critically the real progress that was made in recent decades. Moreover, a superhuman effort must be made to ensure that, to paraphrase an old saying, we are not cent wise but euro foolish in respect of what is being done in this regard. It must be realised that were Ireland to continue to invest in people who are going into the education system from those sectors of society that are experiencing real difficulties by maintaining them therein and keeping them there into second and third level education - whatever the format of third level education might be - it would serve society's interests and would do a great deal to enhance the personal satisfaction the individual person will have, as well as the way in which he or she will be able to live his or her life into the future. While I acknowledge the Minister of State is committed in respect of this area, it is a subject the Government must consider afresh.
While it is not in the question, education research shows that for those from disadvantaged communities in particular, the preschool year and the associated additional education and resources put into it are the most important resources to those children and those homes. Moreover, the outcome from a significant investment in preschool, particularly for disadvantaged communities, is extremely significant. I understand the academic and research evidence shows that where this happens, and there has been significant investment in Ireland in preschool year, this has a significant outcome in bringing up that cohort of people to be the same as any other community. The Government and obviously the Minister for Education and Skills will be very interested in the comments made in this Chamber and I will make sure they are brought to his attention. However, if one can invest in preschool, one gets quality education for those who obviously would not normally be in a position to benefit therefrom. This is the key to the issue and is where significant progress will be made in the years ahead.
