Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 31 March 2015
1. Deputy Derek Keating asked the Taoiseach his plans to establish a national awards scheme; if he will now bring forward his plans for a national awards scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46775/14]
Amharc ar fhreagra2. Deputy Derek Keating asked the Taoiseach further to Parliamentary Question No. 9 of 25 October 2011, during which he committed to write to the party leaders and representatives on the establishment of a national civil award, if he will report on the responses received; the views expressed by those party leaders and representatives; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3280/15]
Amharc ar fhreagraI propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
The issue of a State honours system has been discussed many times in the past but there has never been all-party support to sustain its development. I believe that such support would be required if consideration of an honours system were to proceed. While I have no objections to all-party consideration of this matter, the timing of any such consideration would have to take into account other political priorities at the time.
I am aware that Deputy Keating has had an interest in this matter for some time and he has mentioned to me that he has carried out extensive research. If he wishes to forward that research, I will be happy to talk to him about it and have it examined.
I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss this issue today and I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. I am grateful to him for acknowledging the number of occasions I have raised this issue. The record will show that I raised it previously in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014.
I do not wish to use a pun but this proposal has considerable merit. Ireland is one of the countries that does not have an awards system to acknowledge the accomplishments and efforts of people, some of whom might be known and have a high profile and others who are unsung heroes in their communities. It is long past time to introduce such an awards system.
The Taoiseach referred to the fact that I have carried out research on this. I have spoken to diplomats, ambassadors and people from other parts of Europe. This is in place in a number of other states. I recall a debate on this issue in 2011 to which Members such as Deputies Martin, Adams, Mathews and Durkan contributed. Unless I misread the situation completely, there was a positive response to this issue and, frankly, I hoped that it might have been progressed to a further stage by now. Subsequently, I had a meeting with the Chief Whip and there was agreement that we would take it to a further stage and discuss it with the other party Whips and so forth. I am disappointed that we have not moved to a further stage, but I am anxious to continue to explore this option. I believe it would be in the national interest. It would give recognition to people, many of whom might be known and popular but many of whom might not necessarily have such a profile, are unsung heroes in their communities and make various efforts in their lives and in society.
I am interested to hear what the other Members say before I make concluding comments.
This is Question Time, not a debate.
I do not have an objection to this in principle. In fairness to Deputy Keating, he has raised the matter each year since 2011. He has been consistent in doing so. It is not the first time this has been suggested but the absence of all-party agreement is the deterrent or obstacle. Article 40.2.1° of the Constitution clearly states that titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State. The last attempt to do something about this was by my predecessor, former Deputy Bertie Ahern.
There are a number of schemes run by the State whereby the State recognises and rewards merit, distinction or bravery in particular cases. These include the President's Award, Gaisce, for young people. That is a scheme where young people are challenged to use their leisure time for positive development and the betterment of their communities.
Gold, silver and bronze medals are presented by an tUachtarán as a recognition of that achievement. That scheme has not been established on a statutory basis.
The second is the Presidential Distinguished Service Award for the Irish Abroad. This was introduced in 2012. The distinguished service award is presented by an tUachtarán to persons who live abroad. Primarily, these are Irish citizens who are entitled to Irish citizenship or persons of Irish descent who have made a sustained and distinguished service to Ireland or to Irish communities abroad. A total of ten awards are made each year. I understand you have attended a number of these, a Cheann Comhairle.
The third is Aosdána, the national scheme to honour artists whose work has made an outstanding contribution to the arts in Ireland. It offers to those who need it a basic level of financial security to enable them to devote their energies fully to their particular art.
The fourth is the National Bravery Awards awarded by the Deeds of Bravery Council. The council awards medals and certificates for deeds of bravery. A deed of bravery is defined as an effort to save human life involving personal risk. The council awards gold medals, bronze medals and certificates. It may also pay compensation to recipients or their dependants. Another example of this type of award is the Scott Medal awarded annually by the Garda Síochána for bravery. The gift is presented by the Garda Commissioner but awarded by the Minister for Justice and Equality.
The fifth is the Volunteer Ireland awards. These are presented in recognition of people who are unsung heroes and who have given time volunteering throughout Ireland. Nominations are forwarded by members of the public. The categories include arts, cultural media, sports and recreation, health and disability, children and young people, campaigning and awareness raising, community education and training, social work, animals and environment, and international development.
There are commercially sponsored awards ceremonies as well which recognise contributions to sport, business, charities etc., for example, the Rehab People of the Year awards, the Irish Film and Television Academy awards, the Irish Times InterTradeIreland awards, which are for young innovators and small businesses, the RTE Sports Person of the Year award, and the Entrepreneur Of The Year award, which is presented in three categories: engineering, industrial and international awards. There are 24 finalists and the winner goes on to participate in the World Entrepreneur Of The Year.
I know Deputy Keating has done some research on the matter. If he wishes to converse with me about it I would be pleased to do so. He may wish to engage with the leaders of the other parties with a view to this. Within the constraints of Article 40.2.1°, under which nobility and titles are not awarded by the State, we have a range of opportunities to reward people for exceptional performance and so on. Perhaps Deputy Keating might wish to take that up. I would be happy to converse with him further on the matter.
I am unsure whether the Taoiseach is aware of the comment by Napoleon when he was stabilising matters after the French Revolution, that he would rule mankind with baubles. We need to be careful. I have always had an open mind but, as a republican, I have a view that there is always a question mark around the State bestowing honours on people. Unfortunately, in Britain we have seen the system there abused by political parties. The system was brought into disrepute for electoral and political gain and there were allegations of fund-raising in respect of honours being bestowed on people. That is a significant issue as well.
We discussed this last as an Oireachtas or as a country in 1997, if I am not mistaken. The political parties discussed the matter at the time. Several awards, including the Gaisce and Aosdána awards as well as a number that are independently decided upon, are outside the political or State system. There are set criteria, particularly for the Gaisce award for young people. Has the Taoiseach looked at reviewing the Gaisce award? It is an excellent awards system that challenges young people to achieve certain objectives in certain disciplines and areas. It is a quiet, understated awards system that has significant benefits for the young people concerned as well as for communities of young people who engage in various challenges to attain either the bronze, silver or gold medal. We should not shy away from celebrating or supporting the Gaisce award and ensuring it is well-resourced in terms of the management and administration.
Does the Taoiseach accept the basic principle that those responsible for our Constitution took a deliberate decision? They did not want the State to have a direct awards scheme. Does the Taoiseach accept that principle? Does he accept that our Constitution provides for an explicit ban on the creation of titles of nobility? Is that something the Taoiseach agrees with?
There were citizens here who thought they had all the trappings of nobility. Let us put that to one side because that would be improper.
I trust Deputy Adams is not referring to republican royalty.
I think there is a good case to be made for a national award scheme. The Taoiseach has enumerated some of the awards that represent a recognition and celebration of people in sporting organisations, the arts and community activists. It is good that society reflects this. Members of the media deserve their just awards as well for the work they do. It is important to give credit and praise.
Is there any chance I might get one for my patience?
Indeed, a Cheann Comhairle. The Taoiseach referred to the Gaisce or President's award. This is a successful awards scheme that brings considerable benefits to the young people who participate. Tá fadhbanna leis sa Tuaisceart ós rud é go gcaithfidh daoine óga ann dul tríd an Duke of Edinburgh's award chun clárú le Gaisce. There is a problem in the North. I have made representations about this. Young people who wish to avail of the President's award or Gaisce have to go through the Duke of Edinburgh's Award. God bless the Duke of Edinburgh, but there are some young people there who do not want to apply for the President's award through the Duke of Edinburgh's scheme or system. We find, therefore, almost by default, that young people in the North are unable to apply for the President's award. We should perhaps tease this out and have a genuine debate. Whether people are in Ballymena or Ballycastle at the tip-top of Antrim or in the tip-toe of Cork, they should be able to be part of all this. This gives me the opportunity to draw the Taoiseach's attention to the matter. Will he review this arrangement in order that groups or individuals in the North can register directly for Gaisce?
It might be useful to give some consideration to an overall award, a unique award, for persons who may have made a unique contribution to society. These people could be broadcasters, journalists or even the odd politician. There are many people who would merit special recognition. Provision is made in other constitutions, such as the French Constitution, for an awards system, for example, la Légion d'honneur. In Germany there is a similar system. In the United States there is the Congressional Gold Medal. These awards are not handed out liberally. They are unique awards for unique service. Perhaps over the passage of time there has been something of an aversion to recognising a major or great contribution in society, apart altogether from the individual awards mentioned by An Taoiseach. Would it be possible, in conjunction with the other party leaders, to look again at the prospect?
We must not allow a system to develop in which it becomes everybody's award. Rather, it should be because a particular contribution to society merits a unique award. It would be for that purpose only.
For the information of the House, I will give some background details. In July 1930, Mr. Blythe, as Minister for Finance of the Executive Council, decided that unofficial negotiations on the matter of an Irish honours system should be opened with the British Government at the earliest convenient opportunity. This was not pursued prior to the constitutional changes in 1937, at which point it became entirely a matter for the Irish Government. The system he had in mind was the Order of the Legion of St. Patrick, of whom there would be 25 commanders, foreign persons chosen by the Executive Council to be honorary commanders, with not more than 50 to be officers and not more than 100 chosen by the Executive Council to be members.
Was that the official Blueshirts?
In January 1946, the Government decided that the then Taoiseach, Mr. de Valera, should examine the question of an honours list, as they put it, in the light of the relevant provisions of the Constitution and of the practice in other countries. A draft memorandum setting out those general lines for a State declaration of honour was circulated to the Departments of Finance and External Affairs for observations. The system they proposed comprised An Chraobh Ruadh and An tÓrdan Feibhe. The Taoiseach was to make proposals to Government. An Chraobh Ruadh - the Red Branch - would be limited to 25 persons, with An tÓrdan Feibhe, first class, limited to 100 persons, and second class limited to 250 persons, and distinctions to be conferred by the President on the advice of the Government.
In 1948, the draft memorandum was brought to the attention of the new Taoiseach, Mr. Costello, who decided that while the matter should not be abandoned entirely, it should be deferred for the time being. In 1953, a revised draft memorandum, based on the 1946 version, was brought to the attention of the then Taoiseach, Mr. de Valera, who, having consulted his Cabinet colleagues, decided that the time was "not opportune" for the institution of an honours system. In May 1956, the Minister for Defence submitted a memorandum to the Taoiseach, Mr. Costello, who decided that the question should be left aside for further consideration at a later time.
In November 1959, following more public discussion, the then Taoiseach, Mr. Lemass, indicated that the matter should not be pursued actively until such time as there emerged evidence of widespread public interest. The following January, the Department of External Affairs suggested the establishment of an interdepartmental committee to examine the matter. This was not pursued in view of the Taoiseach's decision the previous November.
In 1963, the Government, following consideration of a memorandum from the Taoiseach, Mr. Lemass, approved in principle a proposal that a State declaration of honour be instituted. It authorised him to consult with the Opposition leaders in Dáil Éireann with a view to securing their acceptance in principle of the proposal and agreed that if the concurrence in principle of the Opposition parties was obtained, the details of an appropriate scheme would be settled by a joint committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas. The Taoiseach wrote to the leaders of the Fine Gael and Labour Parties. The Labour Party responded that before it could agree even in principle to the proposal, it would prefer to have talks on the type of scheme envisaged, while the Fine Gael party simply indicated that it would not be expedient at that time to proceed with this proposal. In view of this, the matter was not pursued.
In March 1991, the then Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, wrote to party leaders inviting them to exploratory talks on the introduction of an honours system. All party leaders responded, saying they were willing to meet the Taoiseach. The leader of the Workers' Party felt it was not a priority and, if a system was established, it should be free from political patronage and should not be hereditary or of monetary value. The leader of the Fine Gael Party asked that the Taoiseach outline the system he had in mind, while the leader of the Labour Party simply accepted the invitation. However, these talks did not take place, as the political climate was not right. The issue was viewed as low priority and there was a lack of public demand.
In April 1994, the then Taoiseach, Mr. Reynolds, wrote to Opposition party leaders asking for their views on the introduction of an honours system. The only reply he received was from the Fine Gael Party leader, who stated that he supported the concept in principle and was willing to participate in an exploration of the idea. He explained and suggested mechanisms for selecting people.
In September 1999, the then Taoiseach, Mr. Ahern, initiated consultations with other party leaders. He asked the Government Chief Whip to represent the Government at a meeting with representatives of the other party leaders. Senator Manning, representing Fine Gael at the time, subsequently wrote to the Chief Whip indicating that, having consulted with the Front Bench, the overwhelming majority felt the question of an honours system should not be pursued further. The Taoiseach accepted the views expressed and decided not to do so.
In October 2007, the Taoiseach again wrote to the party leaders, inviting them to discussions. Fine Gael and Sinn Féin responded favourably, while the Labour Party indicated it would bring proposals before the parliamentary party. The last Taoiseach, Mr. Cowen, did not pursue the matter with the other party leaders, indicating in a response to a parliamentary question that the timing of any consideration of this matter would have to take into account other political priorities.
There has been, therefore, an 80-year consideration in this regard. Article 40.2.1° still stands in that the State shall not award titles or nobility. I take the point made by Deputy Martin in respect of abuse of this in hereditary or monetary terms.
The Taoiseach deserves an award for his answer.
Deputy Keating is part of what is a very long line of prestigious comments made in the House over 80 years. Somebody else may stand up here in 20 years' time and say that Deputy Keating was pursuing it when he was here. I thank him for the intervention and for the question.
I thank the Taoiseach and all those who contributed to the debate. What I am trying to do is to ensure the current Taoiseach is not added to that list, if this is raised in 20 years time, although I say that with tongue in cheek. I am aware there is a long history associated with this request and that many others have pursued it in the past, although I did not know just how long the history was.
In reference to the Taoiseach's' earlier comments, I would be grateful if this could be taken a stage further and if the Taoiseach would agree to present this to the Whips and the party leaders for discussion. Given that I have been raising this over the past four years, perhaps we could agree on a specific timetable to at least arrive at a decision and maybe save others time in the future. Perhaps the Taoiseach could report back to me in four to six weeks, if that is reasonable.
That was a very impressive chronology of progress over the 80 years. It demonstrates a lot of uncertainty, a lot of hesitation and a lot of doubt. However, I recall one thing that has happened in past years - that Dr. T. K. Whitaker, who is now 97 years of age, was honoured by being declared the Irishman of the 20th century. It is in that sort of context that I say this could be the first toe-testing, if one wants to put it that way, of a President's honours list - not an award but rather a President's declaration of particularly productive contributions to the people of Ireland. That is the way I would take it, given that there has been such going around in circles for 80 years. We could make one move forward in that regard.
Before the Taoiseach replies, I want to mention that I have the pleasure of chairing the bravery awards, which we have moved to Farmleigh. The committee includes the Commissioner of An Garda Síochána, the Lord Mayor of Dublin, the Lord Mayor of Cork, the chairman of the Red Cross, the Cathaoirleach and myself. To be honest, the stories we have received from throughout the country are astonishing in terms of the acts of bravery performed by people we never read about. The biggest problem we have is to try to get people to make submissions. One particular case that will always stick in my mind is that of two young guys who, while on their way home after celebrating their leaving certificate results in Fermoy, noticed smoke coming from the upstairs window of a house. They broke down a door and went in, through thick smoke, risking their own lives. They pulled out somebody who was unconscious, brought him out and resuscitated him on the footpath.
The person told them there was another person inside. One of them took off his jacket and went back in - there were flames at this stage - and dragged out the second person. I never read or heard about this, but these are the sort of things that are happening. We present the awards in Farmleigh each year and the amount of goodness that happens that we never hear about is incredible. Perhaps I should not intervene as Ceann Comhairle, but as chairman of the bravery awards I will mention the incredible information that comes to us. We are very careful about the level of awards we grant depending on the acts performed.
Hear, hear. Well said.
The bravery awards are, as the Ceann Comhairle said, very special and very much appreciated by the people who receive them. I had the privilege of launching Anne Chambers's biography of T.K. Whitaker, an extraordinary citizen who was selected by popular vote of those interested the most influential and important citizen of the 20th century, which is an extraordinary commendation from people throughout the country who gave their views. I take Deputy Keating's point of view and I will come back to him.
