Defence Forces Remuneration

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 11 April 2019

Thursday, 11 April 2019

Ceisteanna (9)

Bobby Aylward

Ceist:

9. Deputy Bobby Aylward asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the steps being taken to ensure better pay and working conditions for members of the Defence Forces; the further steps being taken to ensure appropriate supports are available to both current and former members of the Defence Forces who may be experiencing financial difficulties; if he is satisfied that recruitment methods are sufficient; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16655/19]

Freagraí ó Béal (6 píosaí cainte)

Deputy Bobby Aylward

I ask the Minister of State the steps being taken to ensure better pay and working conditions for members of the Defence Forces; the steps being taken to ensure appropriate supports are available to both current and former members of the Defence Forces who may be experiencing financial difficulties; if he is satisfied that recruitment methods are sufficient; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Similar to other sectors of the public service, the pay of Permanent Defence Force personnel was reduced as one of the measures to assist in stabilising the national finances during the financial crisis. Pay is being restored to members of the Defence Forces and other public servants in accordance with public sector pay agreements. The focus of these increases is weighted in favour of those on lower pay. Members of the Permanent Defence Force have received the pay increases due under the Lansdowne Road agreement. In addition, in 2017, following negotiations with PDFORRA, improved pay scales for general service recruits and privates who had joined the Permanent Defence Force post 1 January 2013 were implemented.

The Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020 provides for increases in pay, ranging from 6.2% to 7.4% over the lifetime of the agreement. The increases due under the agreement from 1 January 2018, 1 October 2018 and 1 January 2019 have been paid to Permanent Defence Force personnel. Further increases in pay are scheduled in 2019 and 2020. By the end of the current public service pay agreement, the pay scales of all public servants, including members of the Defence Forces, earning under €70,000 per annum will be restored to pre-FEMPI levels. The restoration of the 5% reduction to allowances cut under the FEMPI legislation is also scheduled as part of that agreement. New entrants who joined the Defence Forces since 2011 may also benefit from the measures which will see interventions at points 4 and 8 of the pay scales for all such relevant new entrants to the public service.

There are factors and personal circumstances which can give rise to an individual needing support and advice in dealing with particular financial difficulties. The Defence Forces, through the personnel support service, provide a confidential information, education, support and referral service to Defence Forces personnel and their families, giving access to information and services within and outside the military community.

Like other military organisations, turnover of personnel is higher than that which normally prevails in other sectors. In that context, there is ongoing recruitment and promotion to replace personnel who depart.

The Public Service Pay Commission is examining recruitment and retention issues in the defence sector. Its work is ongoing. The Government will give due consideration to the findings and recommendations that arise from the work of the commission.

Deputy Bobby Aylward

I raised this issue with the Minister of State at Question Time prior to the budget. At the time I stated the first step in solving a problem was recognising that there was one.

I do not think the Government has yet accepted that there is a problem. It remains reluctant to face up to the scale and impact of the issues facing members of the Defence Forces and their families. Pay and conditions are major contributory factors in dealing with the issues in the recruitment and retention of personnel in the Naval Service, the Air Corps and the Army. I understand there has been a 30% turnover of staff in the past three years. That represents a 10% decline year on year. Poor pay and conditions are also major contributory factors in causing 2,000 Defence Forces families to be dependent on family income supplement to make ends meet. That is a statistic the Government should take on board. I come from Kilkenny, a town with military barracks. I have met members of the Defence Forces and their families and the situation on the ground is dire, especially for those at the lower end of the pay scale. Does the Minister of State accept that morale is low among a wide contingent of the Defence Forces? Does he also accept that there is a need for more urgent radical action to improve pay and working conditions in a way that would make a meaningful difference?

Deputy Paul Kehoe

The Deputy is incorrect in saying there has been a turnover of 10%. I have often stated publicly that we have challenges in the recruitment and retention of personnel in the Defence Forces. That is why the Government prioritised the health and defence sectors within the remit of the Public Service Pay Commission. I hope to have the recommendations of the commission soon and bring them to the Government shortly. The Government and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform will then consider them. I will continue to work with my Department and military management to address the issue.

Deputy Bobby Aylward

The Defence Forces have a sterling reputation all over the world in fulfilling their humanitarian and peacekeeping duties. They are also highly respected by the public for the role they play in the security of the State. However, the Government continues to undervalue them. In an effort to be constructive, I suggest the Minister of State investigate the possibility of increasing the availability of higher education opportunities and third level places for all members of the Defence Forces. I acknowledge that there is already a strong tradition when it comes to participating in higher education. We should, however, seek to do more in incentivising participation in higher education and increasing the availability of educational opportunities. Such a measure would make a major difference to younger recruits and especially those at the lower end of the pay scale. I also ask the Minister of State to seek to address the issue of accommodation. It is often the case that 35% to 40% of a soldier's take-home pay is spent on rent. In many other countries free accommodation is offered to members of their defence forces. It could be a huge incentive and leave a soldier, a pilot or a sailor with more money in his or her pocket at the end of each month. We have always had a tradition of military families living in barracks. That option should be re-examined.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

In the confidence and supply agreement the Deputy's party agreed to the public service pay agreement on core pay. There are already many educational opportunities in the Defence Forces for enlisted personnel and members of the officer corps. The Defence Forces' website demonstrates the many opportunities available. I agree with the Deputy that it is important we provide opportunities to up-skill and avail of educational opportunities. The issues of pay, recruitment and retention are being looked at by the Public Service Pay Commission. As I have stated clearly, I would like to see recommendations being brought to the Government as soon as possible. It will then consider them. That is the challenge for me, my Department and the Defence Forces. Most importantly, it is a challenge for members of the Defence Forces.