I ask that Deputies stick to their time because there are many Deputies waiting and we will get through all the questions if we just stick to the times.
Tuesday, 15 September 2020
Ceisteanna (112)
Freagraí ó Béal (9 píosaí cainte)
Matt Carthy
Ceist:112. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine if a cross-departmental task force will be established to analyse the meat industry here in view of the role of the sector during the Covid-19 pandemic, the ongoing complaints by farmers regarding the prices offered to them, the allegations in relation to price-fixing and recent revelations regarding the conditions for workers in the sector. [22611/20]
Amharc ar fhreagraThis question was originally submitted to the Taoiseach. The issue pertaining to meat factories crosses a number of Departments. The role that meat factories have in our society, and especially our rural society, is profound. My question relates to the issues arising from meat factories during this Covid-19 period, the ongoing problems farmers have around getting a fair price, and the treatment of workers. I am interested to hear from the Minister on this issue as it relates to his Department.
I thank Deputy Carthy. There are a number of questions in that one question. I will certainly do my best to address them.
My Department is contributing to the whole-of-Government response to managing outbreaks of Covid-19 in food plants. In the context of Covid-19, human health must be the absolute priority for all of us, and therefore it is vitally important that all our decisions and actions are led by public health advice. My Department is participating in the HSE-chaired national standing committee on high risk settings, which meets on an ongoing basis to review existing protocols and compliance measures, and to identify any additional control measures that may be required.
My Department is also supporting the HSE and the Health and Safety Authority in monitoring the effective implementation of all relevant Covid-19 guidance in Department-approved food plants. International evidence has shown that meat plants in particular are at risk of outbreaks. My Department is leading research on the operational and environmental factors in meat plants which may influence Covid transmission, for example, by looking at ventilation systems and the recirculation of chilled air in plants, to identify and address those risk factors.
There has been a lot of commentary about wider factors regarding employees in the food industry, for example, shared accommodation and transport, and the sick pay and other employment conditions for workers. There have been discussions between the meat industry and unions on some of these issues, and that is positive. My Department is leading engagement with the ESRI to scope out a research project looking at these wider issues. If the Deputy has concerns with regard to individual workers, he should report these directly to the relevant statutory agencies such as the Health and Safety Authority, the Workplace Relations Commission, or the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection, as appropriate.
Specifically on beef sectoral issues, the beef task force that was established in September 2019 provides a forum for detailed engagement on key issues facing the beef sector, and is particularly important in progressing the commitments made by all stakeholders in the beef sector agreement last September. It is independently chaired and includes representatives from all stakeholders.
I am aware that I am out of time in my response but I will certainly follow up with the Deputy.
It appears that the balls always fall right for the meat factories in all of this, and I have said this to the Minister's predecessor. The Minister will recall during the Covid period that Deputy Naughten revealed the factories had received tests results of some of the workers before the workers themselves. The Minister asked if we are aware of any individual concerns around the workers. The workers in a lot of these factories are scared stiff to talk to anybody. We have a situation where the companies operate behind a veil. They are unlimited companies, usually based through myriad schemes in Luxembourg or some other third country. It is incredibly hard to get any answers. When a body agrees to look into matters, as the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission did last year, the companies respond with what I can only describe as an insulting letter to those who put the queries, and it was admitted through FOI that they had not actually asked the meat factories any questions. The Minister can see where the concerns are.
I am aware of the concerns regularly expressed by the farming community and also with the issues around Covid recently. The Deputy will know that in advance of the last election I put forward the policy for a national food ombudsman to address some of those issues. It is included in the programme for Government. Other parties, including the Deputy's, did not have any suggestions in that regard on how to address that issue. I look forward to any ideas Deputy Carthy has, along with all the farming organisations, to try to ensure that office is robust, and which will help to address that issue.
The terms and conditions of workers are very important. Workers must be properly protected and looked after. Everything I will do in my Department, and working with other agencies, will be about ensuring that is the case. This is why I will be establishing, and working with the ESRI, a review on how we can learn and try to improve the situation, while working with other Departments also. If there are particular issues which Deputies become aware of, even if not through a specific person, it is important those are fed back. Any issues or situations where people are not being treated properly must be addressed. As the Minister I will do everything I can to ensure that is the case.
If the Minister is looking for ideas, one is contained within this parliamentary question, which is that the Minster would set up a cross-departmental task force to look at all of these issues. I take the Minister's bona fides on this but the crucial test for the Minister and whatever third bodies are set up is whether his Department continues to see its role in all this as defenders and protectors of the meat factories. That is the perception. I believe this perception is based in reality, and in the role the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has played over the past years. The Department has seen its role as defending the meat factories no matter what, and to defend against all and any allegation or question that is put. The Minister's big challenge is, in the first instance, to break this down within his own Department, to put the right questions to the right people, and to ensure when questions are asked, either by Deputies in this House or by farming organisations, that the questions are answered. For far too long, responses to questions on meat factories have been too slow, if they come at all.
I have no doubt that Deputy Carthy likes to put forward the narrative that this would be the case in the future. As I have said to him in response to numerous questions, as the Minister I will be respecting everyone in the food supply chain and all stakeholders, and in particular the primacy of the primary producers who have not had a fair crack in relation to transparency or the margins they get, and will be doing the best in that regard.
We must respect everyone, but we also must hold everyone to account. That has been my form up to now, and with three Ministers of State also working in the Department, this will be our form. No doubt Deputy Carthy will try to paint it as otherwise on occasion but-----
I will give the Minister credit if he does it.
------this is essential. This is why I have moved to working with the ESRI. Every industry, including the beef sector, has to work within the law and within the terms and conditions that are there. I am aware that issues have been raised in how lessons may be learned in that regard. This is why I seek the study and assessment as to what conditions are and how they might be improved. Working with other Departments we will take that forward. As the Deputy knows well, the immediate priority is ensuring that conditions in the factories are safe at the moment. This is an immediate priority for the Department and for the industry.