Mary Lou McDonald
Ceist:1. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [4084/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraTuesday, 14 February 2023
Ceisteanna (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Ivana Bacik
Ceist:2. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [5719/23]
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Seán Haughey
Ceist:3. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [5758/23]
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Ruairí Ó Murchú
Ceist:4. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [5851/23]
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Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:5. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [5891/23]
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Paul Murphy
Ceist:6. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [5894/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraRuairí Ó Murchú
Ceist:7. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [6864/23]
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Mick Barry
Ceist:8. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European Union and international affairs will next meet. [6918/23]
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Rose Conway-Walsh
Ceist:9. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs will next meet. [6947/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraFreagraí ó Béal (40 píosaí cainte)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 9, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on EU and international affairs was established by the Government on 18 January. Its role is to oversee implementation of programme of Government commitments relating to the EU and international issues.
It generally meets in advance of regular meetings of the European Council. Its next meeting will take place before the March meeting of the European Council.
We have a good few contributors. They will have a minute and a half each.
As I noted to the President of the European Parliament earlier this month, one of the necessary ingredients to create change in the world is to speak honestly with our friends. I believe this honesty is needed now more than ever from the EU and the international community in its engagements with Israel, as Israel heaps injustice after injustice on the Palestinian people.
Political leaders have, I believe, a responsibility to name Israel's aggression for what it is - an apartheid regime. Equivocation on calling out this violent system of apartheid is failing everyone as Israel's new administration lurches even further to the right.
In a television address, President Herzog warned at the weekend that Israel is on the brink of constitutional and social collapse as the ultra-right coalition sets its sights on the judiciary. Earlier that same day, the prime minister told a meeting of his government that he wants to strengthen illegal settlements and the security cabinet announced its plans to authorise nine illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank. Prime Minister Netanyahu's so-called reforms of the judiciary will significantly interfere in the courts' ability to overrule a cabinet decision that seeks to so brazenly break the law. These are not the actions of a democratic state.
It remains my firm view that Government must introduce and support the Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018. This is now a matter of urgency.
I also want to raise the issue of Palestinian rights. Indeed, two weeks ago, I called on the Government to take a strong stance in defence of Palestinian rights. Conditions have worsened since, as we have seen the new far-right Netanyahu government in Israel, which took office at the start of the year, take even further steps to trample on the rights of the Palestinian people and, indeed, take further steps to undermine democracy in Israel also, with concerning plans to meddle with the judicial system. Indeed, we saw at the weekend a mass demonstration of nearly 100,000 people outside the Knesset protesting against plans to undermine the independence of the judiciary there.
The same Israeli Government has introduced draconian security clampdowns in Palestinian areas in Jerusalem and the West Bank and we have seen the expansion of illegal settlements with reports of 5,000 new settler homes being planned. It appears the current government has no interest in a two-state state and, indeed, no interest in pursuing peace. The state itself in Israel, it appears, has been captured by the far right and we have seen appalling deaths already. At least 40 Palestinians in the West Bank have been killed by army fire this year alone.
I am asking how Ireland and indeed the EU can maintain trade relations with a country that is carrying on like this. Will the Taoiseach and his Government take on Senator Francis Black's Bill to ban the import of goods from illegal settlements and from occupied territories, as we, in Labour, and others across the Opposition have called for?
Every nation-state has an obligation to protect and maintain its borders; so too do the 27 member states of the European Union.
In this context, I wish to ask the Taoiseach about his attendance at the special European Council meeting last week, where the issue of migration was addressed. It seems this issue has risen to the top of the EU agenda, as it has in Ireland. I understand a substantial package of new measures to deal with illegal migration was agreed by EU leaders, including the provision of EU funding to improve border protection capabilities and infrastructure. President Ursula von der Leyen talked about strengthening our external borders. Of course, EU nation-states have a moral and legal obligation to shelter those fleeing war and persecution. We also know that legal migration benefits our economies, among many other things. However, people are now asking for appropriate measures to be taken to speed up the determination of international protection applications, to ensure deportations actually take place, to deal with applicants coming from so-called safe countries of origin and to address the problem of applicants losing or destroying their travel documentation. What approach did the Taoiseach take at last week's special EU Council meeting?
Israel is involved in a brazenly naked illegal occupation of Palestinian land and territory. This week, its cabinet authorised further illegal settlements on land that, under international law, is designated for the Palestinians. In the first month of this year, 50 Palestinians died in what was the deadliest month we have seen in decades, with the Israeli army running constant military raids into Palestinian territory, as they did last year. International human rights organisations have said, categorically, that the entire apparatus of the Israeli state has been operating on an apartheid basis against Palestinians since its foundation. Will the Taoiseach explain why the EU and our Government does nothing about this? Will he explain to me, to the world and to the Palestinians why the EU says that any and all means must be used to support the Ukrainian people in their fight against the illegal occupation of their country, but not a thing is done to support the Palestinians in their fight against the illegal occupation of their land and territory, the crushing of their right to self-determination, the apartheid system that is obnoxious to international law and to human rights and the 17-year-long siege of Gaza? The murder, oppression and persecution goes on and nothing is done. No sanctions are imposed. Will the Taoiseach explain the double standards?
The Taoiseach said earlier in reply to me that nobody should be trying to make political gain out of migration. Will he distance himself from the conclusions of the European Council meeting and from Deputy Haughey's comments just now? The meeting represented a further hardening of the fortress Europe policy. The tone was set by the hard-right government of Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni in Italy, followed by the so-called centre right. There was agreement on reinforced co-operation on search and rescue missions in the central Mediterranean, a reference to the activity of NGOs that have saved the lives of people who would otherwise drown as a result of fortress Europe policies. A total of 25,000 people have died in the past nine years as a consequence of fortress Europe, which is being strengthened and strengthened. Over the past eight years, the aggregate length of fences at the EU's external borders has gone from 315 km to more than 2,000 km. There has been no attempt to address the illegal and violent pushing back of refugees into the ocean where they could drown. Will the Taoiseach reject this fortress Europe policy, which serves the interests of nobody?
The crackdown on asylum seekers announced at the EU summit last week was based solely on the narrative of the far right. These are not my words or the words of any radical socialist; instead, they are the words of a colleague of the Taoiseach, Fianna Fáil MEP, Barry Andrews, and he is right. When I made the point in this House last week that the Government's failures on housing were a gift to the far right, the Taoiseach urged me to consider my language. The next day he flew to Brussels and said that the EU needed to be "fair, firm and hard" on the asylum issue. He gave himself a get-out-of-jail card by saying the EU needed to be hard on the traffickers, but that was the small print. It was not the headline and a man of the Taoiseach's experience would know, or have a pretty good idea at the very least, what the headline was going to be. Given that he is careful with his language, will the Taoiseach admit to the House that this was a dog-whistle?
Has the Taoiseach received clarity from the British Government regarding the concerning Nationality and Borders Act 2022 and the recently proposed roll-out of the electronic travel authorisation, ETA, scheme for third country nationals crossing the Border? I have grave concerns about this proposal. The Border is already too hard. We cannot have a situation where people travelling across Ireland could be subject to visa requirements. This is an affront to the Good Friday Agreement and would cause untold damage to community, societal and business relations on the island. My colleague, Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile, tabled a motion in the Seanad, which received unanimous support, condemning the introduction of the electronic travel waiver for non-British citizens. If introduced, ordinary men and women who wish to travel to the Six Counties, be it for work, tourism or for study, will be expected to apply under ETA. The policy is both absurd and offensive. Will the Taoiseach assure us that no new restrictions on the free movement of people on this island will be introduced?
The issue of migration is sensitive and we all should be careful in the way we speak about it. It is important that we do not call one another names. We must speak respectfully on the issue without labelling people with certain names. Both extremes of the political spectrum seem to be ramping up tensions in this regard. Middle Ireland wants to help people who are fleeing war, violence and famine, but they also want to be able to differentiate between those who need help and those who do not. On the radio last week, the Taoiseach mentioned he wanted the length of the process to be reduced to six to eight weeks. It takes 80 weeks currently for applications to be decided on. Some people are waiting 14 years for their application to be processed. The Taoiseach said he did not know how many people were being deported because such information is not collected. Is this the case and, if so, is this the right way to proceed with this?
When the Taoiseach answers the Deputies' questions, in particular those of Deputies Haughey and Tóibín, will he explain the complications for a person seeking sanctuary in Ireland coming from Eritrea, for example, where they do not have the capacity to get a passport in the way we do, or a person fleeing persecution in Afghanistan, where passports have not been issued since 2021, or a person arriving to Ireland from Georgia fleeing on the grounds of LGBT persecution, or a person from a place where we have not given any working visas to? There is a complexity to this and there is dog-whistling under the guise of speaking on behalf of middle Ireland. The people of Ireland are very decent but we need to understand the complexities and streamline the process to make it easier for people coming here, particularly from regions of the world where it is far more difficult to access the resources we have at our disposal in Ireland.
I thank the Deputies for their questions. On Deputy McDonald's question about Israel and Palestine, I agree that we must speak honestly with our friends. I hope, when the Deputy is in the US in March, she will speak honestly with her American friends about the stance she takes on issues relating to Palestine, Cuba and Venezuela. I have yet to see evidence of that but I will check her remarks in March to see if she does so.
I agree that we must support a two-state solution and we continue to do so. We support the right of Palestinians to their independence. We oppose the settlements and the expansion of the existing settlements, and anti-democratic forces, whether they are in Israel or Palestine. We are very concerned about what is happening in Israel in regard to judicial independence and the actions of the new government.
I am also concerned that we have not had elections in the Palestinian areas now for a very long time.
What is the point?
I do not think I need to answer the question as to what the point is in having elections, at least I hope not.
Israel does not recognise Palestinian elections.
In relation to----
Palestinians in Jerusalem do not get to vote at all.
Please, Deputy.
In relation to Israel itself, we should acknowledge that it is one of the few countries in the region that has a democratically elected Government, an independent judiciary and equal rights for women and LGBT people. We would not like that to change. I am concerned that Israel is going down a very different path from that but I do not think our concerns about Israel should blind us to other governments and administrations in the region that do not uphold the rights of women and LGBT people or have free and fair elections.
Israel does not uphold the rights of the Palestinians.
We need to be fair and even-handed and not apply double standards.
What about the breaches of international law that are legendary at this stage?
I agree with the Deputies in that regard.
In response to Deputy Haughey's question, the focus of the summit-----
What about the Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) 2018 Bill?
What about the occupied territories Bill?
-----was Ukraine for the first part and then migration for the second part. A particular focus was placed on external borders, and how we can strengthen the external borders of the European Union, and also on returns, and how we can increase the number of returns of people who have been deemed ineligible for international protection in the European Union after an appropriate legal process. I reassure Deputies that those conclusions were unanimously supported. They were supported by the socialist governments and the social democratic governments-----
They are not really socialists.
-----and they were supported by governments that include green parties in various parts of Europe. Those include the socialist government in Malta and the social democratic government in Denmark, for example. The mainstream centre left in Europe supported these conclusions-----
Yes, they go along with it. That is correct.
-----and to try to present them as something hard right followed by the centre right-----
And followed by the centre left.
-----really misunderstands where the mainstream of European opinion now lands. These conclusions were supported by centre-left Governments, the Party of European Socialists and the European Green Party in government. For my part, I supported the conclusions on behalf of the Irish Government. I also made the case for legal pathways, which is something we in Ireland do better than other countries. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, at which I was the Minister last year, issued a record number of 40,000 work permits to economic migrants who wanted to come here and who we wanted to come here. When there are legal pathways to migration, that is the big door. We should have a big door when it comes to migration-----
What about the occupied territories Bill?
-----but we also need controls as well. I do not agree with the view that we should have no controls at all or have no nations or borders. Those who have that view should be honest about it and not try to cover up that they do not believe in any returns or any borders. They should be honest about that if that is their view.
As the Deputy rightly pointed out, my reference to being hard was specifically in reference to traffickers. We need to be hard on traffickers. That is what I said in Brussels, what I said on Sunday and what I am saying again here today. I do not see any reason to misrepresent it. The Deputies must have their own agenda if they are trying to misrepresent those words. I agree that we all need to be careful in the words we use. Those of us who are politicians in the centre ground need to be willing to talk about migration. We have been a bit afraid to talk about it, quite frankly, for the past number of years. If those of us in the centre ground do not talk about migration, we will allow the far right and the extreme left to dominate the debate in this regard and that will not be good. That is why we need to talk about it and find ways to talk about it carefully but sensibly as well.
In relation to the electronic travel authorisation, I raised this matter with Prime Minister Sunak when we had our phone call a couple of weeks ago. We have not met in person yet but I hope to do so soon. I expressed our very strong concerns about the impact this could have on third country citizens. It will not apply to Irish or British citizens but could certainly apply to EU citizens living in Ireland, North or South, and non-EEA citizens living in Ireland, North or South, and could make their lives difficult. They could inadvertently find themselves breaking the law in some circumstances just by crossing the Border. We have real concerns about that and would seek to have those allayed.
On the issue of deportations, approximately 700 orders have been issued since September. I do not know the exact figure of the numbers of people who have been affected but they are very small. What I am told is that in most cases where somebody has a deportation order served, they will either return to their home country or go to another country of their own volition. Very rarely does a deportation have to be effected. Some people also just disappear into the system and that makes them very hard to trace.
Deputy Gannon mentioned individual countries. In the context of this debate, it is probably not a good idea to mention or list individual countries. I have been advised not to do so by people in the past and I think that should work in all directions. To be frank, I can understand-----
We are way over time.
-----why somebody may have false papers if they are coming from a country where they cannot get papers. What I do not understand is the destruction of papers.
What about the Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018?
What about the occupied territories Bill?
Trade is an EU competence so it is the same position as we had before.
There are only three questions in the next group. With the Taoiseach's co-operation, we will deal with them in ten minutes to allow 15 minutes for the subsequent group, which has a long list of contributors.