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Cabinet Committees

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 21 February 2023

Tuesday, 21 February 2023

Ceisteanna (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 129)

Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceist:

1. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [5893/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Paul Murphy

Ceist:

2. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [5896/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Peadar Tóibín

Ceist:

3. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [6735/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Ivana Bacik

Ceist:

4. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [6925/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Cian O'Callaghan

Ceist:

5. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [7240/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mick Barry

Ceist:

6. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [7266/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mary Lou McDonald

Ceist:

7. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [8116/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Brendan Smith

Ceist:

8. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [8502/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Cian O'Callaghan

Ceist:

9. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [8629/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Rose Conway-Walsh

Ceist:

129. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination will next meet. [8778/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (14 píosaí cainte)

Tógfaidh mé Ceisteanna Uimh. 1 go 9, agus 129 le chéile.

The Cabinet committee on Government co-ordination is scheduled to meet again on Monday next, 27 February. The committee reviews the agenda of Government meetings, discusses political priorities and reviews the activity of Cabinet committees. I am a member of the committee, with the Tánaiste and the leader of the Green Party. The Secretary General to the Government, my chief of staff and the chiefs of staff for the Tánaiste and the leader of the Green Party also sit in on meetings.

In including in Government policy the need for cost-rental and affordable schemes, the Government is acknowledging, rightly, that even if someone is over the social housing income threshold, that person still cannot afford market rents or prices. However, the delivery of cost-rental or affordable housing is pitifully slow. In my area, it is virtually non-existent. There is a cohort of people - working people - who are, if they find themselves facing eviction or unable to find accommodation that is affordable, in a very bad situation. They are driven into homelessness and obliged to sleep on couches, in cars and so on. What will the Government do for that cohort?

The Government should extend the tenant in situ scheme to those above the social housing income threshold if they are faced with homelessness. The Government should extend eligibility for the housing assistance payment, HAP. As much as I disagree with the HAP system, it is better than nothing, but people over the social housing income threshold are not even entitled to rent support in the form of HAP and, therefore, are absolutely banjaxed if they are trying to find rental accommodation. Does the Taoiseach accept my point? If he understands that we need that middle tier of affordable housing, which is not there yet, does he accept that other supports need to be provided for the cohort in question? Increasingly, it is working people who are being driven into or facing homelessness.

This weekend, we learned about the AIB write-down for D.J. Carey of more than 99%, which is an incredible figure. It is a jaw-dropping figure. Many people who have experience of mortgage distress, whether it be as a result of illness, the fact that their homes are affected by mica - theirs are mortgages on lumps of rubble - or the fact that they own small businesses, will have been told by their banks that it is impossible to give write-downs in order to reduce the level of debt that they owe. It is very difficult for many people to see what appear to be two cohorts of individuals being treated differently. We do not know the specific details of Mr. Carey's write-down. AIB is to be called before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach to discuss its policy in this regard. However, the Government should have an understanding of the policies of banks, especially those that are, in part, owned by the State. Does the Taoiseach know how many write-downs of more than 90% were afforded to citizens by AIB in the past number of years? The State also has public-interest directors on the board of AIB. Did the latter have knowledge of any write-downs of this scale? If they did have such knowledge, did they impart it to the Department of Finance? Did the Minister for Finance know? We need a banking system that is fair and reasonable to individuals who are in mortgage distress. I would appreciate it if the Taoiseach could comment on this matter.

What work is being done to ensure greater Government co-ordination in policy decisions being taken at Government level with regard to the accommodation of refugees and those seeking asylum and international protection? For months, I have consistently raised the need for a more co-ordinated approach on the part of Government to the provision of accommodation and of information to communities throughout the country that are offering such a warm welcome to those who came here to seek refuge. We have called for a public information campaign such as that rolled out so successfully during Covid to address the misinformation and downright lies that are being spread by a very small number of sinister actors regarding refugees and those seeking international protection. This is a live issue in communities throughout the country. Many of our own local representatives and councillors are facing a backlash from a small number of these sinister actors. They need, as we do, more information from the Government and a clear channel of communication with the Government regarding the accommodation of refugees and asylum seekers. We saw tens of thousands of people coming out on Saturday to show solidarity at the Ireland for All rally and to stand in solidarity against racism and any sort of anti-refugee sentiment, but we need to see that goodwill and solidarity supported by the Government to a much greater extent.

Does the package of cost-of-living measures announced earlier include any climate action measures? We want to see a more co-ordinated Government approach on climate action. We have proposed the €9 per month public transport ticket would be adopted today or this week as part of the cost-of-living measures, but also as a measure that would greatly assist in reducing our carbon emissions.

A 16-year-old transgender girl, Brianna Ghey, was stabbed to death in Warrington in England on 11 February. Huge crowds attended vigils for her, including on this island, in Belfast, Derry, Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Kilkenny and elsewhere. I express my sympathy and solidarity with her family and friends, the trans community and all who feel less safe after her tragic murder. Two 15-year-olds have been arrested. Brianna experienced transphobic bullying and harassment before her death. Transphobia is now being investigated as a possible motive for the murder. Anyone involved in stirring up transphobia online, in the media, in politics or among their peers needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. Those ideas have real-life consequences. A recent study by the Trinity College Dublin school of nursing and midwifery shows that conversion therapy practices are taking place in Ireland. Will the Taoiseach outline, in a bit of detail if possible, what steps the Government intends to take to rule out this extremely harmful practice?

I send my sympathies to the family and friends of Brianna Ghey and solidarity to her trans siblings at this time.

Last week, the Taoiseach not only disputed research produced on behalf of Barnardos which found that one in ten parents has used a food bank in the past year, he sought to undermine the data. As has been clarified, his criticisms of the data were totally, wholly, completely and utterly inaccurate. The Barnardos survey also found that one quarter of parents have had to cut down on paying household bills, such as those relating to gas and electricity, in order to afford food costs over the past 12 months. Yesterday, the ESRI published a peer-reviewed report on housing inadequacy outcomes for children, using data from the Government's Growing Up in Ireland study. Of the age group considered, one in ten children lives in unsuitable housing and a similar proportion of children live in homes that parents cannot afford to keep warm. These are not challenges that have been caused by Covid, the war in Ukraine or the cost-of-living crisis.

They are a consequence of decades of structural inequalities and bad public policies for which the three party leaders must take at least some responsibility. The lead author of the ESRI report found that a significant minority of children experience periods of inadequate housing during their childhood and some spend years exposed to poor housing conditions, with negative impacts on their social and emotional development and their health. The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child remains seriously concerned about the large number of children living in poverty, food insecurity and homelessness in Ireland. Dismissing data is not a helpful route to the reduction of child poverty. Is it the intention of the three party leaders to mainstream children's rights particularly into the Housing for All strategy?

I am a big supporter of cost-rental housing as is the Government. Cost rental is a new model of housing. It is new to Ireland but not new to other parts of the world. It was initiated by the then Minister, Eoghan Murphy, in the last Government and is being realised by the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, in this Government, with projects in Emmet Road, Shanganagh Castle, Cork, and north County Dublin. We really need to scale it up as much as we can and potentially Project Tosaigh is a way that we can do that. There are a very large number of unactivated planning permissions for apartments and high-density developments in Dublin, Cork and elsewhere, and I would like to see us getting them going, potentially as cost-rental housing, ensuring it is available to more people. It will take years and decades to scale up to the level of cost-rental housing that we would like, but I think it is the right policy.

What about in the meantime?

In the meantime, I agree with what the Deputy said about the purchase in situ programme. The Minister tells me that we are doing that. If a landlord is selling and the tenant is a social housing tenant, a council can buy that property.

What if a person is over the threshold?

If the Deputy wants, he can send me a note. There are different thresholds, as he knows, and I do not profess to knowing the exact ins and outs of the scheme, but I know it is something that is done and we support it. I imagine there are some sort of thresholds. The Deputy may want these set out in detail or in writing. We can certainly examine whether we get rid of the thresholds altogether or whether we raise them.

Deputy Tóibín asked about the jaw-dropping settlement that has made the newspapers. I am reluctant to talk about any individual's personal finances, whether they are famous or not. If the committee is inviting the banks in, it could certainly explore the wider policy approach banks follow in writing down debts. I imagine it is linked to how much the person is able to pay back rather than who they are, but that needs to be looked at. I cannot say how many have had write-downs of more than 90%. The Department of Finance may have those figures; I do not have them personally. There is a relationship framework according to which the Department engages with banks based on ensuring it is commercial and at arm's length.

Deputy Bacik asked about communications in relation to Ukraine and migration. The communications sub-group of Cabinet committee on Ukraine is developing an improved approach to communications. It has to be on two levels: on the ground, talking to and engaging with people individually and something wider, more public through the media. I met with the Lord Mayor of Dublin last week and she represents the Ballymun area. She spoke about how effective it was to do the communications on the ground and talk to people individually, listen to their concerns and explain to them what is going on. It is resource and person intensive, but I think it is something we need to do. I know the Minister is trying to develop a team around him to do that. We will need a wider campaign as well to ensure people know the facts and know what is and is not going on.

The Government does not propose to bring in a €9 per month public transport ticket. That was done in Germany and was abandoned for various reasons. It is not something we would be inclined to repeat here given the fact it did not work in Germany.

It was hugely successful.

It was subsequently rolled out by the states.

We have reduced public transport fares, which has been successful, but we need to make sure we do not create major capacity problems for ourselves and that is something we have to balance each time. The school transport initiative is a climate measure. Since we waived the fees for school transport, there has been a large increase in the number of children using school transport. The figure is in the region of 20,000 or 30,000 more. It is definitely a climate measure that is beneficial.

I am not exactly sure where we are in terms of the legislation on conversion therapy. I will come back to Deputy Barry on that when I get an update. However, I join him and others in expressing solidarity with the trans community in light of recent events.

I refer to the ESRI study on housing adequacy and child outcomes, which Deputy O'Reilly mentioned. This is an important study that highlights critical interventions in securing adequate housing for families and children while providing a strong evidence base for those interventions. The report's findings resonate with research being carried out by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on housing costs, stress and deprivation, which will be published shortly. While Housing for All places considerable focus on supply and affordability, it does not ignore other housing challenges and commits to reforms across multiple areas. When it comes to new-build social housing, for example, we do not have the exact figures yet for 2022 but we think it will be around 8,000 new social homes, possibly the highest number since 1975. Our ambition is to build more in 2023. There is also the retrofitting of about 30,000 social homes, making them warmer and less expensive to heat.

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