Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 25 May 2023
2. Deputy Gino Kenny asked the Minister for Justice if he will report on any discussion he has had with senior Garda authorities on the policing of anti-asylum seeker-refugee demonstrations and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25462/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraMy question relates to the Minister's discussions with senior gardaí on the policing of anti-asylum seeker and anti-refugee demonstrations across the State. Many of us are concerned about what has manifested in the State and the situations in which police find themselves.
I thank Deputy Kenny for raising the question. I very much appreciate the fact that he referenced the challenging situation gardaí can find themselves in. I want to take this opportunity to thank members of An Garda Síochána. There have been well over 125 anti-immigration protests in the city alone. Gardaí have been working in very challenging environments and I want to thank them for that.
I would like to condemn in the strongest possible way any incident or threat of violence against vulnerable people in our society. The burning of tents belonging to refugees in Dublin city centre recently was utterly unacceptable, reprehensible and vile. It will be fully investigated by members of An Garda Síochána. A live investigation is under way.
I have met the Garda Commissioner to discuss this incident. I meet him on a regular basis to discuss this issue and I am confident that a policing plan is in place. The Commissioner has assured me that he has what he terms "operational integrity" and the resources to police this situation. Of course, the Garda Commissioner is responsible for operational policing matters. I have been assured that the policing approach to protests is predicated on a number of principles, namely, keeping people safe, preventing any antisocial or criminal behaviour and traffic management, where appropriate.
While people of course have the right to protest and that right must be respected, nobody has a right to do that in a way that causes others to fear for their safety or threatens public order. If and when that line between protesting and threatening or intimidating behaviour is crossed, there are a number of provisions in our laws that apply.
We are also strengthening our legislation in this area with our Criminal Justice (Public Order) (Amendment) Bill, which we hope to enact later this year. The Bill will repeal the prohibition of incitement to hatred and replace it with new offences of "incitement to violence or hatred". It will also provide for specific hate crime offences for the first time in Irish law.
The message should be clear from this House to anybody who engages in threatening behaviour, that such behaviour can constitute an offence. The offence can have serious consequences. A number of people have been arrested and are being prosecuted. One's right to protest will be respected, but one has no right to break the law. If one endeavours to break the law, one will be met with its full rigours.
Some lines have been crossed at some of the demonstrations. There is no doubt about that. It is unequivocal. Outside agitators are trying to sow fears and play on people's fears and hatred. Some of these are outside agitators who have an agenda, that is, to stoke fear and so forth. It is a testament to the Irish people that we have welcomed the vast majority of people to this country. There has been a considerable influx of people from different parts of the world and, largely, Irish people have welcomed people from different countries. We know the feelings of being rejected and then welcomed. It is part of our DNA to welcome people, but there are those who want to stoke the worst in people and they have an agenda. I fear the rhetoric they use, especially on social media, is going unchecked.
I agree with the Deputy that he is entirely correct and the security assessment entirely tallies with his view that it is a statement of fact that there are a number of small, right-wing, far-right actors who move from community to community to stoke fear and division and, on occasion, engage in criminal activity. We should not overstate the number, nor should we tolerate their actions. There is a line between protest and the other side of that line, and they are often on the wrong side of that line. There are a number of active Garda investigations under way, which I will not comment on for obvious reasons, but I will take the opportunity to set out the laws that exist in this area. There are clear laws and clear offences if one crosses the line. Under the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act, it is an offence to make someone believe he or she is likely to be assaulted. It also is an offence to threaten someone with serious harm and beset someone in a way that interferes with that person's peace and privacy or causes him or her alarm or distress. Under our public order legislation, offensive behaviour is criminalised in a public place, as is engaging in threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour in a public place. It is also an offence to distribute or display in a public place, any material which is threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene and it is an offence to fail to comply with the direction of a member of An Garda Síochána. The laws are clear and will be enforced.
We understand the police find themselves in difficult situations, but there are also question marks over where those lines have been blurred at demonstrations. Remember these demonstrations are outside where people live. Some of the policing has to be questioned. It is very light touch in comparison to what the Debenhams workers went through two years ago. There is a stark contrast in how the gardaí dealt with them and how the people who are stoking up the worst fears imaginable. The gardaí find themselves in a difficult situation in which outside forces are trying to whip up fear, hatred and division. They grow in that cesspool. It has to be acknowledged that these people have to be taken out of society.
I absolutely believe in democratic oversight and oversight structures with regard to An Garda Síochána and our justice system - of course, I do. However, I am also conscious that when we talk about this subject in the House, we are talking about pieces of information we see. An Garda Síochána has a helicopter view of information and of intelligence and in terms of its assessment of the security situation and the individual judgment of the garda when he or she is on the front line of what can often be, as the Deputy has been kind enough to acknowledge, a very challenging situation. I am satisfied An Garda Síochána takes the threat of the far right in Ireland extraordinarily seriously. I am confident there are policing plans in place. The Government and I are in regular and ongoing engagement with An Garda Síochána to ensure a regular flow of information. The flow of information, providing for policing input and advance notification of where accommodation centres will be established in order that An Garda Síochána can be prepared with to a policing plan is important. I am also satisfied - this is true - there have been arrests and prosecutions. I expect that as a result of a number of other live investigations, there will be further arrests and prosecutions.
