Mary Lou McDonald
Ceist:1. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [25560/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraTuesday, 20 June 2023
Ceisteanna (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Gary Gannon
Ceist:2. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [29331/23]
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Peadar Tóibín
Ceist:3. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [29396/23]
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Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:4. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [29534/23]
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Bríd Smith
Ceist:5. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet [29537/23]
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Paul Murphy
Ceist:6. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet [29540/23]
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Brendan Smith
Ceist:7. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [29758/23]
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Seán Haughey
Ceist:8. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland will next meet. [29759/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraFreagraí ó Béal (6 píosaí cainte)
Tógfaidh mé Ceisteanna Uimh. 1 go 8, go huile, le chéile.
The Cabinet committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland was reconstituted as one of ten Cabinet committees established in January 2023. It operates in accordance with the established guidelines for Cabinet committees and, where appropriate, substantive issues are referred to the Government for discussion and approval. The Cabinet committee is intended to oversee implementation of relevant programme for Government commitments in the area of Brexit and Northern Ireland, and ongoing relevant developments. Northern Ireland-related matters are also discussed at meetings of the full Cabinet and bilaterally between me and the Tánaiste. A date for the next meeting of the Cabinet committee is under review.
We have spoken before on the importance of getting the Executive up and running. The drift that we are experiencing at the minute cannot continue. Obviously, that will need to be dealt with. The British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference met yesterday at the Mansion House. A joint communiqué was issued after the meeting, stating that the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill 2022 was discussed, as were the Irish Government's concerns in relation to it. There was also mention of concern in respect of a number of particular legacy cases. I think it is fair to say that the British Government seems to be steaming ahead with this legislation. When questions were put to the junior minister at the Northern Ireland Office, Jonathan Caine. he said there were no signs that this legislation would be paused. I think there is absolute agreement on the island of Ireland in relation to how wrong this legislation is. My view is the view that I presented last week. I believe this is about the British Government not being willing to accept its role in Ireland and the dirty war that it played. It is necessary that we have some information about how those concerns were put across and what the British Government was told about how willing the Irish Government is to go on this matter.
We will have to look at legal recourse if the British Government goes ahead and introduces this absolutely disgraceful legislation.
Last week, I and other members of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement went to London to speak to MPs, peers and Ministers on the legacy Bill. The legacy Bill gives an amnesty to murderers. It is the son and heir of the British cover-up of the actions they took. There were heinous murderers in the North for almost 50 years. It was a unilateral decision that ignored the Irish Government. It undermines the rule of law and the human right to justice. It turns Britain into an outlier and a rogue state. It is heaping pain and suffering on those who have already been so wronged so viciously by the British state.
In the meetings we had across the political spectrum in Westminster it became very clear that the British have no intention of turning on this issue. Some of the feedback we got was that the Irish Government has become quieter on this issue in recent times. The only influence the Irish Government has at this juncture is to challenge the legislation in the European Court of Human Rights. We were told in no uncertain terms by some of the peers and MPs that there is no point in waiting until the legislation has been passed before threatening to bring the British Government to the European Court of Human Rights. The horse will have bolted at that stage. There will be no turning back. I appeal to the Taoiseach to make a decision that the Government will state publicly the Irish Government will bring the British Government to the European Court of Human Rights if it continues on the trajectory that it is on at present with regard to the legacy Bill. This is the only way to protect the thousands of people in the North of Ireland who have been so wronged and will be wronged further.
Another point we got from peers, MPs and Ministers is that they agree that at this stage it is necessary to change the structure of the Assembly in the North whereby one political party can crash it. I encourage the Government to get active on this issue as soon as possible.
Something I would say in response to Deputy Tóibín is that nobody should talk about reconfiguring the structures of Stormont until the Executive and Assembly are restored. If we go down the route of trying to bring about changes now, we will get into even more deep difficulty. All of us in the House want to see the institutions back and fully functioning representing the people. The members of the Assembly were decided a year ago in an election.
I am very glad that recently there was a meeting of the British-Irish Council. Yesterday, there was a meeting of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference. Last night, I watched the BBC and UTV. It was clear from the remarks of the Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin, that the Government was not in any way weakening its response to the desperate legislative measures the British Government is trying to put through the House of Lords at present. Under no circumstances can we accept the Bill in any shape or form. It cannot be amended to become good legislation. It needs to be scrapped. We need to go back to the drawing board and the Stormont House Agreement to deal with legacy issues.
I was very glad that yesterday the BBC reported the British Government's lack of response to this Parliament with regard to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 17 May 1974 and requests made by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste following repeated representations by me with regard to the Belturbet bombing of 1972. These issues were raised again yesterday. Under no circumstances could the Government countenance acceptance in any shape or form of the legacy Bill. It is reprehensible. Deputy Tóibín said it provides an amnesty for murderers who belong to paramilitary organisations and British state forces. Regardless of their background, if people caused murder or harm or carried out criminal acts, they should not get an amnesty.
Now that the local elections are over, I have no doubt there will be a renewed focus on restoring the power-sharing institutions in Northern Ireland. We need to see the Assembly and the Executive, the North-South Ministerial Council, the cross-Border bodies, as well as the east-west institutions, functioning as originally envisaged. It seems the parties in Northern Ireland have been meeting in recent days to renew their efforts in this regard. We are told the DUP is seeking legislation to give legal assurances in respect of sovereignty and post-Brexit trade following the announcement of the Windsor Framework. Does the Taoiseach know whether the British Government will publish this legislation soon? Is legislation expected in this regard as requested by the DUP? It has been suggested that the parties in Northern Ireland are seeking a financial support package of more than £1 billion in the context of a return to Stormont. It is clear there is a little momentum in the process. How does the Taoiseach see things unfolding in this regard in the coming weeks?
With regard to the legacy Bill proposed by the British Government, anybody who watched the five-part series on the BBC, "Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland", which concluded last night, will be in no doubt that the legacy Bill cannot be allowed to succeed. Many victims and their families were interviewed for the series. It really shows how unnecessary and how bad the proposed legacy Bill is for all those concerned. I hope the Government will step up its efforts to oppose the Bill.
The British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference and the British-Irish Council, two institutions of the Good Friday Agreement that are still operating, met in the past week or so. The Tánaiste and the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, went to London for the meeting of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference. The Tánaiste and I were in Jersey last week for a meeting of the British-Irish Council. At all forums, we make very clear our opposition to the legacy legislation being bought through the Houses of Parliament by the British Government. This has not weakened in any way whatsoever. I have raised it directly with the Prime Minister. I have discussed it with President Biden. It has been discussed with US Members of Congress. As Deputy Tóibín mentioned, it was raised by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement chaired by Deputy Fergus O'Dowd on its recent visit to the British Parliament. We very clearly have not ruled out an interstate legal challenge to it. However, let us not forget that the UK Government does not necessarily treat decisions of the European courts in the same way as we do. Many in the British Government have been critical of the European Court of Human Rights. This is a different approach from the one we have.
To echo the comments of Deputy Smith, we should not make the mistake of suggesting that a de facto amnesty would only apply to former British servicemen. It would also apply to IRA terrorists and other paramilitaries. Most of the atrocities committed against women and children civilians and the worst sectarian killings were committed by paramilitaries. We all have a role to play when it comes to legacy. I encourage all parties to encourage anyone they know, or are connected to, to provide information to the Garda or the Police Service of Northern Ireland if they believe it could lead to a prosecution of a paramilitary or somebody involved in any such killings and not to partake in events that glorify violence during the Troubles in any way.
The UK Government published an extensive list of amendments to its Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill on 8 June. The amendments do not allay our fundamental concerns or those of many others about the Bill and its compatibility with the UN Convention on Human Rights. We will continue to urge our UK counterparts to pause the Bill. We believe the provisions relating to the granting of immunity from prosecution of crimes such as unlawful killing are incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. We are also concerned about the shutting down of other avenues to truth and justice, for example, inquests, police investigations, investigations by the ombudsman and civil cases. The Government's view is that any way forward on legacy must be based on agreed human rights standards with victims at its centre. It is against these parameters that we and others will assess the amendments.
As I said, I have raised the Bill with the Prime Minister Mr. Sunak at every available opportunity. In addition, the Tánaiste regularly raises these matters with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. There were substantive discussions at the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference in London yesterday.
On 22 May, I met some families of victims and the WAVE Trauma Centre to hear directly about their opposition to what is being proposed. As well as the widespread opposition by the public in Northern Ireland, serious concerns have also been expressed by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and many Members of the US Congress.
Serious concerns have also been expressed by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and the Council of Europe has, on five separate occasions, including most recently on 7 June in an interim resolution, expressed concern about the Bill's compliance with the ECHR. Discussions concerning the possibility of referral of an interstate case to the court by Ireland on the Bill, in the Government's assessment, are premature, but we do not rule out the possibility and we will keep the matter under review.
On Deputy Haughey's question, from our contacts with the UK Government and the five major parties in Northern Ireland, we understand there are contacts between the parties and there have been discussions between the DUP and the UK Government with respect to assurances that they might be given which would enable the Executive and Assembly to be re-established in the next couple of months. The commitment we have sought from the UK Government is that there should not be any further changes to the Windsor Framework and that the Good Friday Agreement and all of its positions should be respected. We have those commitments and I trust those commitments.