Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 6 July 2023
114. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will outline an engagement her Department has had with other Government agencies and Departments in relation to the problems faced by workers who live in the North, work for southern-based companies and wish to work from home, and if the issue will be included in the considerations for budget 2024; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [33075/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraWill the Minister outline the engagement her Department has had with other Government agencies and Departments on the problems being faced by workers who live in the North but work in companies based in the South and who may wish to work from home or engage in remote working. The example I use is PayPal, which closed its premises. Its employees who live in the North had to be transferred to PayPal UK although they had availed of benefits in the South and all the rest of it.
I call the Minister to reply.
We need a solution that works across the board but the Department of Social Protection has a part to play.
Responsibility for Government policy on remote working lies with my colleague, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. As the Deputy may be aware, under current social security arrangements, it is open to workers resident in Northern Ireland who are working with a southern-based company to work from home one day per week and to remain attached to the PRSI system here. If they work two days or more from home in Northern Ireland, they will generally be subject to UK social security legislation.
My Department co-operates with the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland on the Cross Border Partnership Employment Services, CBPES. CBPES provides information to workers and jobseekers on employment-related issues on both sides of the Border. The other organisations represented on the partnership are the Confederation of British Industry, CBI, the Dundalk Chamber of Commerce, the Irish Business and Employers Confederation, IBEC, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, the Londonderry Chamber of Commerce and the union, Unite.
If the Deputy is aware of issues that cross-Border workers face in the context of social security arrangements, I ask him to please forward those specific details to my Department and I will request officials to look into the matter. As policy responsibility for the wider issues referred to by the Deputy are not within the remit of my Department, this matter is not being considered by it for budget 2024. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
In fairness to the Minister, she is not the only member of the Government I have put this question to. I raised it with the Taoiseach earlier this week, and not for the first time. This issue needs to be taken to Cabinet level and addressed. I accept it is beyond the Minister's remit but there is a need for HMRC and Revenue to have fully-fledged conversations on providing a solution. The Minister mentioned some of the stakeholders, including Dundalk Chamber of Commerce. I am fairly sure this is an issue that it has raised in particular. It is a problem for those working on either side of the Border and for those who work on the other side of the Border.
I used the PayPal example because those employees had no choice. They had to be moved. I ask the Minister and other Cabinet members to come up with some sort of proposal on this. It will need some sort of an agreement with the British Government. That may be more possible now than it was previously. I would like it to be dealt with at Cabinet level.
During Covid, it was agreed across the EU that teleworkers could work from home all the time and remain paying their social insurance contributions in the state of their employer. This temporary agreement has now ended and a new voluntary framework agreement for teleworking has been drafted by the administrative council, which is responsible for co-ordinating social security across the EU. The agreement, which EU member states can voluntarily sign up to, allows teleworking rates to increase from 25% to 50% without having to change where a person's social security contributions are paid.
The UK has indicated that it will not sign this agreement and so it will not relate to those working across the Border. I am on the Border too, like Deputy Ó Murchú. The truth is that most workers on the Border want to avail of our social welfare supports and child benefit because they are much higher here than on the other side. I can understand why they want to do that. The UK has indicated that it is not going to sign this agreement and so it will not apply to those working along the Border. My officials are consulting with other Departments on whether Ireland should sign up. However, even if Ireland does, it will not apply where the other state is a non-signatory. Given the UK's stated position, it will not apply in the situation the Deputy is talking about.
It probably does not come as any shock to an awful lot of people that there is an issue that the British Government is not willing, at this point in time, to sort out. We have to play our part in looking for a solution. This is an issue across every border. The OECD is looking at putting a deal together but I imagine we could be waiting a hell of a long time before that happens. At a governmental level, there has to be an intervention and an interaction with the British Government. We want to see the likes of the solution the Minister is talking about around teleconferencing and whatever else. A wide solution is needed because we are talking about remote working, which is here to stay. Some people will only work remotely so we have to facilitate that. It is a very small island so we should be able to facilitate it. We have better benefits here at this point but, once again, I think we can put all that responsibility on a British Government in Whitehall that does not particularly care about the people of Ireland, unfortunately.
My predecessor signed agreements with the UK around Brexit. In fairness, we have a good few reciprocal agreements regarding social welfare contributions and pensions, etc. I have to acknowledge that. In this particular case, the UK has indicated it will not sign up for this agreement. Nevertheless, that does not stop us from having conversations. The Deputy is talking specifically about the PayPal workers. Those who are living and working in the North and paid by the UK-based employer PayPal are no longer frontier workers. The relevant tax, social benefits and employment protection arrangements for the UK will apply from the date of changeover of employer registration. The Deputy also mentioned the OECD. It is looking at this teleworking framework agreement and we are looking at it ourselves.
Switching over to the Department of Rural and Community Development, the Deputy knows how much I am promoting remote working. We have spent €150 million on providing remote working hubs right across the country. I have had conversations with counterparts in Northern Ireland to see how we can manage this on an all-island basis. I think that is the way to go. The OECD was here last year and had a conference in Cavan. It held Ireland up as an example of remote working and how we have progressed it. We are probably ahead of a lot of countries and maybe we could be ahead of a few more. I am happy to look at this because I am absolutely committed to remote working and the benefits it can bring to rural areas.
