Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire
Ceist:49. Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire asked the Minister for Social Protection to outline the next steps in the consultation on the Green Paper on disability allowance. [46769/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraTuesday, 24 October 2023
Ceisteanna (49)
Freagraí ó Béal (6 píosaí cainte)
The Minister's recent Green Paper on disability allowance has been published. It envisages radical changes to the approach being taken. It is fair to say that some people have expressed concerns about the changes. I appreciate that consultation is still ongoing, but there are certainly cautionary tales from other jurisdictions that we need to be very much aware of. This question is an opportunity for the Minister to tell us where the process is going. What will happen after people make their submissions? I certainly will make one.
I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire for raising this matter.
The Government committed as part of the roadmap for social inclusion to develop and consult on proposals to restructure long-term disability payments and to simplify the system. The consultation process has begun through the publication of the Green Paper. The Green Paper sets out the issues facing people with disabilities. Those issues include high levels of unemployment and poverty and a complex system of payments that has evolved over decades. In addition, and in order to encourage ideas and debate, the Green Paper sets out one possible approach as to how the system might be reformed, both to increase the level of payments and to improve employment outcomes.
I emphasise that nobody will have his or her payment reduced, nor will anybody lose his or her entitlement to a disability payment. Those who read the paper will see that, in fact, it proposes that payments will be increased, in some cases by over €45 per week.
I emphasise also that the Green Paper is a consultation document. It is not a final reform design. The paper is for the purpose of inviting discussion, debate and suggestions.
I am very mindful of our commitment under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCPRD, to consult closely with and actively involve disabled people and their representative groups on changes that will impact them. That is why I launched the Green Paper and a wide-scale public consultation on 20 September, when I met a number of stakeholder organisations as part of a briefing session. I also held a consultation event with stakeholders on 18 October. A number of further public consultation events will take place in Dublin Castle on 9 November, in Cork on 14 November and in Athlone on 23 November. Those events are open to disability groups, disabled persons' organisations and members of the public. Invitations will be shared with over 100 organisations. Depending on demand, my officials are happy to add more locations and more consultation events to this event series. In addition, individuals and groups are welcome to make submissions until 15 December. We have already received 120 submissions from individuals.
As the Minister will be aware, a very large number of people will be affected by this. Some 225,000 people receive these payments, 150,000 on disability allowance and about 75,000 on the other payments.
If I were to think of a single phrase that I think concerns people - the specific phrase belongs to the approach that was taken in Britain - it would be "work capability assessment". I think the Minister's Department uses a different phrase, but the former phrase would send a chill down the back of the neck of anybody with disabilities who is familiar, or anyone at all who is familiar, with the regime that existed in Britain. It is an approach that led to people being classed as fit to work who were simply not or who were grievously ill and forced them into hardship. It is an approach that very much suggested that there were targets to be reached to try to reduce the number of people on disability allowance. It is vital we do not pursue any approach that involves that kind of assessment or forces people into unsuitable work, cuts them off and puts them into hardship, as happened in many instances in Britain.
I am glad the Deputy raised that because I agree with him. This has nothing to do with the UK system. Cutting costs was what they were doing in the UK. That is not the case here. This is about trying to increase people's payments. In fact, based on a conservative estimate, the Green Paper measures, if introduced, would cost in excess of €130 million extra per year.
It is well documented that people with disabilities face additional costs, and Ireland's employment rate for people with disabilities is below the EU average. The question is whether we keep doing what we are doing and expect a different result or whether we actually try to improve the system for people with disabilities. The fact is that there has been no reform to disability payments for decades. We have a wide range of different schemes, including disability allowance, blind pension and invalidity pension. Even the name "invalidity pension" is not great terminology to use in this day and age.
I think there is sometimes a lack of awareness of the partial capacity element of things and a difficulty in transitioning between invalidity and partial capacity payments. That is maybe another day's work but it might be an interim issue that could be raised. I hear the Minister say that cutting costs will not be a part of this. I will hold her to that. That is vital. It cannot be about cutting costs. There are obstacles to people with disabilities entering work; there is no question about that. As regards the rates of employment, there are many disabled people who want to work but who are not in a position to do so. There are also, however, many who are worried at the minute that they could be pushed into employment that is not suitable for them or pushed into employment when they are not capable of employment. That is the bottom line that has to be watched in this regard. I will hold the Minister to that.
I will ask an additional question. As regards the supports that would be available, does the Minister anticipate that there would ever be withdrawal of payments from people who are not successful following those supports in achieving work?
To be clear, there is no question of anybody having his or her payment decreased. My objective here is actually to increase payments, not decrease them. This is a difficult and very sensitive area, and I reassure people that there is no intention to cut anybody's payment or to cut people off payments. That is not the intention. What I am doing is putting out very clearly in the Green Paper an opportunity to have an honest and frank discussion. I am happy to engage with the stakeholders. I have already had two meetings with them. There will be further meetings across the country. I am happy to take people's views on board. Then, when we have collated all that information, we can sit down and look at it. I have done this before with other consultations. It has worked and we have changed things. I honestly have an open mind here. I could put my head in the sand and do nothing about this - that would be the easy thing to do - but I will not do that. I want to try to make a difference and improve the situation for people with disabilities.