Alan Dillon
Ceist:10. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department. [50920/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraTuesday, 28 November 2023
Ceisteanna (10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
Mick Barry
Ceist:11. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department. [51895/23]
Amharc ar fhreagra
James Lawless
Ceist:12. Deputy James Lawless asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department. [52245/23]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Niamh Smyth
Ceist:13. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department [52246/23]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Paul McAuliffe
Ceist:14. Deputy Paul McAuliffe asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department. [52255/23]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Pádraig O'Sullivan
Ceist:15. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department [52256/23]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Ruairí Ó Murchú
Ceist:16. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the work of the policing reform implementation programme office in his Department. [52321/23]
Amharc ar fhreagraFreagraí ó Béal (8 píosaí cainte)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 16, inclusive, together. A Policing Service for our Future is the Government’s plan to implement the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland. Implementation of the plan is being overseen by a dedicated programme office in the Department of the Taoiseach and has entered the final consolidation phase, with many substantive reforms already attained. This phase is expected to conclude with the introduction of the enhanced governance and accountability framework set out in the Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill 2023 in the coming months. Major reforms to date include progressing the operating model for An Garda Síochána, which will enable a more visible, responsive and localised policing service to communities nationwide; recruitment of more than 3,300 Garda staff, which has resulted in the reassignment of many gardaí to front-line policing duties; distribution of nearly 14,000 digital communication devices, enabling front-line gardaí to perform their duties without returning to stations; implementation of new human rights structures, strategies and training across the organisation; and the introduction of a three-year Garda health and wellbeing strategy, which recognises the enormous stresses gardaí can face in the course of their work.
There has also been legislative reform. The landmark Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill 2023 provides for the most wide-ranging and coherent reform of policing in a generation. It is anticipated that this Bill will be enacted before the end of the year, with early commencement envisaged. The Garda Síochána (Digital Recordings) Bill concerns the use of recording devices, including body-worn cameras. In June, the Cabinet approved the drafting of a general scheme for facial recognition technology legislation. This new Bill will be standalone and deals with concerns raised on facial and object recognition technology and will allow for prioritisation of the enactment of the Recording Devices Bill 2022 before the end of the year. The Garda Síochána (Powers) Bill combines and modernises police powers of search, arrest and detention. In addition, the Garda Síochána (Functions and Operational Areas) Act came into law in 2022 to underpin the new operating model.
These developments represent only some of a wide range of actions completed or being progressed. The implementation group on policing reform is currently focused on arrangements for ensuring the smooth transition to new statutory governance and oversight arrangements. Policing reform has always been a live process and there has always been discretion to adapt to circumstances as need demands, particularly in the light of events such as the disorder in Dublin last Thursday. We have provided a further €10 million for Garda overtime in the city until the end of the year, which is being spent on high-visibility policing in the capital. The Minister for Justice has instructed her officials to include riot and violent disorder in the new facial recognition Bill, which will be ready to go to Government within weeks and will allow for rioters to be brought to justice more readily. We are also accelerating work to recruit more gardaí after the Covid-induced pause. There will be 700 to 800 new recruits this year and 800 to 1,000 next year. These and other actions by the Government show we will not be found wanting in support of An Garda Síochána as it fights crime and disorder.
In the wake of the unsettling events that unfolded in Dublin last Thursday, is it worth examining the Children's Act 2001? It needs to be revised in light of the concerns that emerged. Video footage clearly depicts a mixture of individuals, both adolescents and adults, who are easily recognisable in appearance and clothing as well as the use of bicycles and electric scooters, engaging in an act of violence which is deeply disturbing. We now need to strengthen the Judiciary with the necessary tools to effectively punish minors under the age of 18 who are involved in violence and criminal incidents such as physical attacks on front-line gardaí or emergency services, as we witnessed last week. At present, minors under the age of 18 may perceive themselves as operating without the fear of consequences under current laws. While it is crucial that we promote tolerance from a young age, it is also essential that we create deterrents for adolescents who may be drawn into a life of crime, often influenced by adults via social media platforms. We need to strike a balance between leniency for those under 18 and more serious punishments for adults involved in serious violent crimes.
Referring to the riots, the Garda Commissioner said, "But we could not have anticipated that in response to a terrible crime, the stabbing of schoolchildren and their teacher, that this would be the response". For a casual observer of Ireland's far right that would be a naive statement. For a Garda Commissioner it is absolutely astounding. Ireland's racist and fascist extremists, and their organisations, have been watching and waiting for months for a tragedy they could exploit in order to do something like they did last Thursday night. I tell you this, Taoiseach, migrants would not underestimate the far right and what it is capable of. The LGBTQ+ community would not underestimate the far right and what it is capable of. Many workers, including library workers, would not underestimate the far right either. I do not believe that repression or a heavy line on law and order will solve this problem. However, I have no problem saying that if the Garda Commissioner believes half of what he said, then he is seriously out of touch.
You cannot talk about the reform of policing without reflecting on the events of last week. The entire city rejects the thuggery, violence and property damage that occurred. I do not think those who organised the protest can escape culpability either. For whatever reason, the State was not in a position to respond adequately. I hear the Taoiseach say that the Garda Commissioner will have public order units in place until at least Christmas. The very least the Government needs to do is ensure that the resources in place now to keep people safe and reassure them, and which should have been in place long before last Friday, are in place until we are able to restore Garda numbers. Despite the its best efforts, the Government, even with the financial resources it has available, has not been able to recruit gardaí. It is time to look at the pay of gardaí. If we are going to ask them to stand in the face of a riot, we have to pay them properly.
On the issue of oversight and the use of force, gardaí constantly tell me they are afraid to act. We have to make sure they are enabled to do act without looking over their shoulders. At the same time, we must ensure that there is adequate accountability. In the context of restoring confidence in the city, it is important that we act quickly and ensure that the temporary measures, including the €10 million provided, are made more permanent until we can restore the numbers of gardaí in Dublin.
I am a father of three children, two of whom go to preschool. This is my first opportunity to speak since last week's events. It is any parent's worst nightmare to see that what unfolded last week actually happened. I express my sympathies to all of those people and families caught up in last Thursday's heinous attack. I agree with Deputy McAuliffe that there are many things on which we need to be more proactive. The provision of bodycams for gardaí, the use of facial and number plate recognition technology. What is the progress on legislation relating to the use of CCTV? I also reiterate what Deputy McAuliffe said about Garda concerns on having to look over their shoulder in how they conduct themselves and how they police. The use of reasonable force needs to be addressed. All of those grey areas and blurred lines need to be addressed in the coming period, because an adequate policing response is required.
There has been a suggestion from the Government that the problem with the policing on Thursday night in Dublin was that gardaí are in some way hesitant about the use of force. That struck me as strange. They were not hesitant about using force against striking Debenhams workers, who were overwhelmingly women. They were not hesitant about using force against the community of Rossport, County Mayo, when it was standing up to Shell. They were not hesitant about using force against many anti-water charges protesters. They were not even hesitant about using force against rough sleepers on Thursday night. It seems this hesitancy is only reserved for the far right. It seems that comes right from the top of An Garda Síochána, from an explicit strategy, according to the Commissioners, of not "falling into the trap" of far-right protesters, and of using a softly, softly approach. What that has looked like is allowing far right agitators to disrupt people going about their work, escorting far right agitators into a library in Swords, County Dublin, past anti-fascist protesters, permitting them to harass pharmacists, permitting them to board buses and permitting them to harass homeless migrants. No new laws are needed. It is not a question of new hate speech laws. It is not a question of facial recognition technology. The people who incited the riot on Thursday night did so in their own names on social media, and are easily identifiable. There are now people mounting checkpoints in Dromahair, County Leitrim, asking people for their passports. That is not legal, and An Garda should be stopping it.
All of our hearts go out to the five-year-old girl and her carer who were the victims of a horrendous and tragic event. However, the expressions of bewilderment from the Government or An Garda Síochána about how the unfolding events could have happened are, to be honest, quite staggering. People, and not just us but others, who are watching the far right have been warning how dangerous these people are, and the agenda of violence, hate, racism and division they are actively trying to stoke. They are out for blood. What we saw the other day is a warning - a chilling warning. These people want to take it to the next level. Tens of thousands of workers who keep our health service going, who work in the shops and supermarkets, on building sites or driving buses are now living in fear. Working people are living in fear of these so-called patriots who do little or nothing to actually stand up for working people or engage in the fights they should be having over housing, the cost of living and health. No, their answer to every question is to target innocent migrants, people of different skin colour or sexuality or those who may be vulnerable in some way. They are preachers of hate and division. Our society needs to recognise that. It is not about new legislation. It is about recognising the specific and worrying threat of the far right and its fascist ideology.
I thank the Deputies for their contributions. Deputy Dillon asked about examining the Children Act. I am not aware of any plans to do so, but I will come back to him on that. However, the fact that we treat juveniles differently in the criminal justice system is not a bad thing, and it does not mean juveniles are immune from the law. They are accountable for their actions. That is why we have antisocial behaviour orders and the juvenile diversion programme. It is why we have Oberstown if detention is needed.
Deputy Barry again asked me to interpret the words of the Garda Commissioner. I am not able to interpret his words for him, or for anyone. He was probably referring to how the situation developed on the day, and not the fact it could not have happened. We have all been aware of violent protests in many places in the city, including on the outskirts of the city, and we know what the potential is. Last Thursday, I spoke at a business lunch and was back in the office that afternoon as news was coming through of the terrible stabbings in Parnell Square. The moment I heard it being reported that the assailant was an Algerian national, I was concerned there would be big trouble. I was in touch with the Minister for Justice about the matter within moments. Putting that information about was extremely irresponsible. We now know that some of the victims come from a migrant background. We know many of the people who intervened to save lives and stop it being worse are of a migrant background. While the current suspect is of a migrant background, he has spent more than 20 years in the country. He is an Irish citizen and is not known to the Department of Social Protection.
The more we find out about it, the harder it is to understand exactly what happened, but we need to find out what did and why.
Regarding Deputy O'Sullivan's question on the use of force, we ask gardaí to use all necessary force to do their job and also to protect themselves, which is also important. What none of us wants is the use of excessive force. For gardaí, it must be hard to get it right. How much force is the right amount of force to use and how does one make that decision in a rapidly developing situation when one does not necessarily know what is going on behind one or what is going on in other places? We have to make sure that they have the best equipment to protect themselves. Bodycams are a big part of that. The Minister for Justice's reform programme includes the latter. I hope we can have them very soon. CCTV is part of it as well. We have to make sure that they have the best possible training as well and that, if they do use necessary force, they are supported by Garda management and the Government. They will be, but I do not want anyone to get this wrong. If excessive force had been used - thankfully, it was not - we would probably be having a different conversation today.