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National Economic and Social Council

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 6 December 2023

Wednesday, 6 December 2023

Ceisteanna (15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)

Mary Lou McDonald

Ceist:

15. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [52330/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Brendan Smith

Ceist:

16. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53189/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Mick Barry

Ceist:

17. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53404/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Ruairí Ó Murchú

Ceist:

18. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53489/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Cian O'Callaghan

Ceist:

19. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53749/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Marc Ó Cathasaigh

Ceist:

20. Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53842/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Richard Boyd Barrett

Ceist:

21. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53908/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Paul Murphy

Ceist:

22. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the National Economic and Social Council, a statutory agency operating under the aegis of his Department. [53911/23]

Amharc ar fhreagra

Freagraí ó Béal (16 píosaí cainte)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 to 22, inclusive, together.

The National Economic and Social Council, NESC, advises me on strategic policy issues relating to sustainable economic, social, and environmental development in Ireland. NESC was established in 1973 and celebrated its 50th anniversary this year. I spoke at a conference last week to mark this occasion, which demonstrated NESC's history and role in providing research, dialogue, and advice to Government. NESC is currently working in four main areas.

One is accounting for nature. The report from the council is focused on examining how Ireland can better account for nature and how natural assets are appropriately valued in policy development and decision-making. It is expected that this report will be published in the first quarter of next year.

The second area is good jobs. This work focusses on job quality and the range of benefits that it can provide for employees, enterprises and wider society. It examines what is meant by good jobs and bad jobs, the range of public and private sector actions and investment, both Irish and EU, which can help build good jobs and what the literature calls a good jobs economy. The work considers international experience, including in Scotland and Wales. The report will provide guidance and building blocks to help underpin the development of sustained and collaborative strategy to promote a good jobs economy in Ireland. It is expected that the report will be published in the second quarter of next year.

The third area is housing. This work is examining options that will help to promote affordable, integrated and sustainable residential development. This includes considering the role of emerging systems thinking within housing research, with a particular focus on the practical aspects of active land management and modern methods of construction.

It is expected that this NESC work will be concluded in quarter two of 2024. Finally, regarding a shared island, NESC is continuing to engage with the shared island initiative. Over the coming months, this will include assisting and providing input into the shared island youth forum.

I ask Members to please be brief. An chéad cheist eile ná Deputy McDonald.

By harnessing support for an all-island approach to economic, social, environmental and well-being challenges, NESC can be an important and practical mechanism to encourage everyone on the island to work together. Through ambitious collaboration, we can be more than the sum of our parts. Climate change and protecting biodiversity are urgent problems and we need to deal with them on an all-island basis. In April last year, NESC published the report Shared Island Shared Opportunity, which set out key recommendations across the areas of sustainable agriculture, circular economy, bioeconomy, renewable energy, networks for nature and marine and costal impacts of climate change. Since those recommendations were published 20 months ago, the Just Transition Commission published one report entitled: Just Transition in Agriculture and Land Use. We are in a climate crisis and reports are no use without action. Where is the promised implementation group mentioned in the agriculture report and what progress has been made in the other crucial climate-related areas NESC has been charged with?

Thankfully, the all-Ireland economy has developed very strongly since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in April 1998. Businesses have developed on a cross-Border basis; trade has strengthened North-South and east-west; and enterprises have developed on an all-Ireland basis as well. It is very important that in planning for further expansion of the all-Ireland economy, we are mindful of the areas both North and South which have not developed to the extent that the east coast has, and particularly the Dublin-Belfast corridor. I am speaking of my own two counties Cavan and Monaghan, and our neighbouring counties of Fermanagh, Tyrone and Armagh. Those particular counties are very strong in farming and agrifood, engineering and construction products and thankfully we have a growing tourism business as well. There is a lot of ill-informed commentary about research and planning for this country in whatever governance parameters is decided in the future. Very valuable work has been undertaken with the shared island unit and the ESRI, by NESC, and with some of our universities and institutes of technology as well. It is very important that planning for the future is done on the basis of qualitative and quantitative research. One particular project I would like to see NESC undertaking is a particular study on the challenges that face-----

-----the central Border region. This is a region that does not have major urban centres or a third level institute so it is particularly important we plan for the areas that are not as developed as the major urban areas.

We will not get everyone in if Deputies go over time.

The budget made no provision for our four new elective hospitals including the new hospital in Cork. People on hospital waiting lists in Cork, and around the country, have waited long enough. Why are they being forced to wait even longer? Dr. Brendan Walsh of the ESRI tells us this morning that the State faces an immediate deficit of 1,000 hospital beds. The national development programme has a target of 260 beds per annum, a target which the ESRI says is too low. The Government will claim 261 beds will come on stream this year but only 162 of these are new additional beds. In reality, the Government has just about hit 60% of its own target. I put it to the Taoiseach that this is nowhere near good enough.

If we are talking about the delivery of both sustainable housing and communities, I refer to my question from earlier. This relates to the fact that in some cases, we have the Housing First supports for chaotic individuals who may be vulnerable, but we need something more family focused. Obviously, very early intervention is key. We need to look at something that is absolutely holistic because we have issues with estate management. Sometimes families and individuals who can be chaotic need to have some element of support around them. Otherwise, it can create a huge number of difficulties, not only for those families but also for those who have to live in these estates and it is all about delivering communities that work for all of us.

I take the opportunity to pay tribute to a long-time member of NESC, Mr. Micheal Ewing, who passed away last week. Michael served for a decade on NESC, representing the environmental pilar. He was instrumental in establishing the environmental pilar which became the fifth pilar of social partnership. He was a kind, considerate and very pragmatic man who had a deep passion for a healthy and thriving environment. He believed in dialogue and in talking to people we disagree with. We need more of that kind of spirit in present day politics.

NESC's most recent report from July 2023, Inequality and Well-Being Frameworks, finds that well-being frameworks hold the potential to address inequalities through, for example, new ways of working such as social dialogue and the incorporation of well-being metrics. We have to plan for a future where we move beyond GDP and make the well-being of our citizens the dominant metric for our economic success. Will the Taoiseach consider the establishment of the commission of future generations, as they have done across the water in Wales, to give the well-being framework teeth and to ensure that well-being today and into the future is both planned and provided for?

At the end of last year, NESC produced a report on improving industrial relations. I suggest that NESC was absolutely right to focus on this subject when we consider that Fórsa has demonstrations today outside hospitals because of the really outrageous fact that a recruitment embargo has been imposed across our health service. Fórsa points out that due to this recruitment pause, there will be a serious impact on services. It also states that there will be a massive increase of pressure on staff, which will lead people to leave the health service when we are chronically short of staff, and that there is a massive over-reliance on outsourcing to agency workers and to private external consultants, all of which costs more in the end and causes services to come under pressure. I suggest we listen to the Fórsa workers, engage with them, and lift this crazy recruitment embargo-----

Thank you, Deputy. You are out of time.

----- on a health service when we need more, not less, staff.

I have been contacted by parents of children who attend two different crèches in my constituency, namely, Discoveries Crèche and Montessori School in Firhouse and Chuckleberries Montessori and Crèche in Ballycullen. In both cases, these crèches are either threatening or planning to withdraw from core funding and massively hike their fees. An email from one family stated that their total fee would go up from €1,200 per month to €1,851. Another said their household had two incomes which made up €100,000 between them, and yet they were still struggling to pay for crèche fees on top of everything else. The likelihood in this case is that the mother would not be able to return to work. This is an absolute disaster. It is a product of the failed privatised system that has been created by the State and it does not work for anybody apart from the big crèche operators who are making massive profits. It is does not work for the workers on low pay, for the parents who are faced with a second mortgage, or for many small operators. What will the Government do immediately when faced with the prospect of crèches withdrawing from core funding and hiking up their fees in an unaffordable way? Does the Government accept that what we need is a public, not-for-profit, universal, free childcare service?

We are out of time for this session, but the Taoiseach may want to make a brief response to the questions.

I will be as brief as I can. Deputy McDonald asked about the implantation group. I think it is not established yet but I will double-check and come back to the Deputy. When it comes to climate, we produce a climate action plan every year and quarterly progress reports.

Deputy Smith mentioned the all-island economy, and is often the case in the House, drew my particular attention to the central Border region. He is absolutely right. When we talk about the all-island economy we cannot just talk about the Dublin-Belfast corridor or the North-West Derry to Donegal area, we must take account of the central Border region too, which has huge potential around tourism, agriculture and food production.

The IDA property programme is very successful too in constructing advance factories and advance buildings, in which investors can then invest to create well-paid jobs. We have the technological universities too, and we need to improve infrastructure, including the roads. One thing that can be transformative for the region is the national broadband plan. I saw some statistics at Cabinet during the week. Some 200,000 homes, farms and businesses are now passed, of which 60,000 have taken up the service, which is ahead of expectations. We now know we will have 300,000 passed by the end of next year and all primary schools covered by the end of this year. The islands are being connected at the moment. This is now expected to come in on schedule and probably under budget with a revised date in 2027. I am really glad that those who opposed that project have been proven wrong in their opposition to it.

The four elective hospitals are in planning and design. They will take years to build - that is the truth of it - so the surgical hubs are the interim solution and are funded in the budget. We have added 1,000 beds to our acute hospitals since the Government came into office and we will add more. I join Deputy Ó Cathasaigh in recognising the contribution of Michael Ewing to the NESC. I pay tribute to him and express my condolences to his friends and colleagues.

On the recruitment embargo across our health service that Deputy Boyd Barrett mentioned, that is not the case. It does not apply to GPs, it does not apply to medical consultants, it does not apply to doctors on training schemes and it does not apply to graduate nurses. It is also not permanent. The HSE will be able to increase its total staffing levels by 2,000 next year, and next year is only a few weeks away. However, the free-for-all recruitment we have seen in recent years cannot continue. It has to be the right people in the right place doing the right jobs.

Finally, Deputy Paul Murphy mentioned two crèches in his constituency. I do not know the details of them. If he wants to pass them on to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, I am sure the Minister will provide him with a detailed reply. While there are crèches opening and closing all the time, the rate of closures is at its lowest in five years and there has been a net increase of 150 childcare facilities so far this year.

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Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.
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