Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 18 January 2024
84. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science his plans to improve pay and conditions for personal assistants working in further education settings; and to provide an update on the development of the further education disability framework; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2026/24]
Amharc ar fhreagraThe Minister and I have had multiple interactions regarding personal assistants who work in the further education sector, including in Drogheda Institute of Further Education, DIFE, Ó Fiaich Institute of Further Education, OFE, Cavan Institute and Dunshaughlin Community College. They are doing spectacular work to facilitate students with extra needs but they have a contract that does not work. They have to apply for jobseeker payments, with all of the difficulties that causes. A number of things are required vis-à-vis their pay claim and there is work the Minister can do on an improved payment. It must be ensured this happens as quickly as possible and a system that works within the further education sector is delivered for those with disabilities.
I thank the Deputy Ó for his question but, more importantly, for genuinely engaging constructively with me on this over a sustained period. I have found his engagement to be insightful and very useful to my Department. As he will be well aware, a number of education and training boards, ETBs, have employed personal assistants to provide supports to learners under the fund for students with disabilities. I have been in a number of these ETBs and colleges, including DIFE, with the Deputy, and my officials have engaged with a variety of stakeholders on the issue, including SOLAS, the trade union FÓRSA, and Education and Training Boards Ireland, ETBI, the representative body for the ETBs. Indeed, Deputy Ó Murchú and I had a meeting with a number of personal assistants, which he very kindly convened and which I felt was useful. He knows my position on this. In budget 2024, I secured an additional €2 million for the fund for students with disabilities and was very clear, on receipt of this, that I wanted my officials to examine the position of personal assistants across the tertiary system, how we can support them in the interim and what further steps can be taken. I have engaged with my officials consistently on this and the work is ongoing. I am due to meet the group again, along with the Deputy. We have a date in the diary for him and I to meet the group of personal assistants again shortly and I hope to be in a position to provide an update at that meeting.
I understand that FÓRSA has lodged a formal claim for improvements to the terms and conditions of personal assistants with ETBI. I believe that was lodged in November. Under the Education and Training Board Act 2013, the terms and conditions of service of a member of staff of an ETB are such as may be determined by the board with the necessary ministerial consent. I understand that a response to this claim will issue shortly and my Department is being kept apprised of developments. I have asked my officials to engage constructively, as appropriate, on this matter with a view to securing progress. We discussed adult education tutors earlier and the need for regularisation and a contract. I know that there are a number of parties to this, of which I am only one, but I believe in trying to get to a point where we can bottom out exactly the contract terms and conditions of personal assistants because this would be hugely beneficial to our education system and to the people working in that area.
Regarding to the development of a disability framework for further education and training, my officials are currently gathering information on the range of disability supports and services across the sector. This will inform a detailed piece of policy work around where we need to go.
I welcome the Minister's answer. FÓRSA needed to make that pay claim because that is how we will get to the end point of having a contract that is fit for purpose. Similar to the educators, this is a means of regularising the situation and putting personal assistants on a decent footing, which may be comparable to SNAs or others, because what we have at the moment is not sustainable for students or for personal assistants as employees. On some level, they feel that the situation is indicative of great disrespect, especially as it has gone on for a considerable time.
I welcome the additional funding. Hopefully, the pay claim can be dealt with as quickly as possible and beyond that, I hope we can work on the other terms and conditions to deliver for students with disabilities. That is what this is about; it is about ensuring that they can be facilitated through the further education framework.
There is a big piece of policy work that I have asked my Department to do on how we support people with disabilities throughout the tertiary education system. This is not a political point because it happened long before I was here but over a number of generations we have made good progress on inclusion at primary and second level. We have more to do but there has been good progress. However, there is still a bit of a cliff edge when it comes to third level. I can point to good examples and good practice but I do not want to just be able to point to good examples and practice but to embed that. I want to know that there is a consistency of approach no matter what part of the tertiary education system a student is in. For example, at the moment we have ten ETBs employing 82 personal assistants directly, four ETBs procuring personal assistant support services via external providers and two ETBs that say they have no current demand for personal assistants which, in and of itself, concerns me. The reason I am sharing that information is to highlight the very different approaches across a range of ETBs. We need to get to a much more consistent position so that no matter where students live in Ireland, and regardless of whether they go on to further education, higher education, or an apprenticeship, they can have an expectation in terms of the supports provided to them as a citizen with a disability in this country. I am determined that we do that piece of work.
In the short term, I want to meet the personal assistants with the Deputy and see what we can do with that additional funding for students with disabilities. My Department is also monitoring carefully the claim submitted by FÓRSA.
I agree that this is about ensuring we have consistency across the board and that we provide proper contracts for these personal assistants as employees, based on the work they do. It is also about ensuring that we facilitate those people who require the support of personal assistants.
I agree. The next step is for us to meet with the personal assistants to see what progress can be made on the basis of the additional allocation I received in November, as well as to see how the FÓRSA claim is considered and progressed. My Department is monitoring that closely. I also want to inform the House of my intention to do that broader piece of policy work on ensuring consistency in the approach to supports for students with disabilities, no matter what part of the tertiary education system they access.
