Richard Boyd Barrett
Ceist:16. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [2807/24]
Amharc ar fhreagraTuesday, 13 February 2024
Ceisteanna (16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
Paul Murphy
Ceist:17. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [2810/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Pádraig O'Sullivan
Ceist:18. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [3805/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Michael Moynihan
Ceist:19. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [3808/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Peadar Tóibín
Ceist:20. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [3973/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Alan Dillon
Ceist:21. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [4026/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Mick Barry
Ceist:22. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [4126/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor
Ceist:23. Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [5275/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Ruairí Ó Murchú
Ceist:24. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [6307/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra
Bernard Durkan
Ceist:25. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [6644/24]
Amharc ar fhreagraFreagraí ó Béal (16 píosaí cainte)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 to 25, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on children and education oversees the implementation of commitments in the programme for Government in the area of children and education, including further and higher education, with a specific focus on child poverty and well-being. The Cabinet committee provides for a greater focus on improving the lives of all children in Ireland and giving them the best start possible, ensuring every child has the opportunity to fulfil their potential.
The Cabinet committee on children and education met twice in 2023 and it is due to meet again shortly.
I welcome what the Taoiseach outlined. Following on from that, what some of the second level students said is that sometimes, teachers handpicked people to talk to inspectors but there was not engagement with the mass of students and there should be a bit more engagement on the ground.
The other point they raised related to facilities in a lot of schools, which vary widely from inadequate heating systems to toilets that are completely inappropriate and do not allow for privacy and other such issues. The point about the curriculum really struck me.
I take the Taoiseach's point about things becoming more interactive with technology and so on but it is a fact that while it varies, wealthier schools have more resources. When I asked about theatre trips, one student said they had been on three theatre trips while another said there was no way their school could possibly afford to go to the theatre. They would have to hire a bus which would cost a fortune and there is no way they could do it or that a lot of money would have to be raised, which would be punitive. They were all very strongly of the view that they would be able to engage far better with their education if there was more of that kind of thing – interactive field trips that made real the stuff in the books.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta.
I just think we should listen when school students speak because they were passionate about education but they just felt the current system was not fit for purpose.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta.
We need to listen to the school students about what they think is necessary to make it work for them.
I wish to raise special education. I acknowledge the good work that has been done in Cork in the last couple of years, during the lifetime of this Government. To be parochial, I point to the provision of a new special school in Carrigaline and the identification of a site for a new special school in Glanmire, not to mention the refurbishment of St. Gabriel's Special School, which will be officially opened on 1 March. There is plenty of positive news in terms of the allocation of school places for kids with special needs.
To be fair, the Minister, Deputy Foley, has made progress on the provision of ASD classes but this is one area where I think we are still lacking. We face the scenario whereby in some cases kids are travelling for between 30 minutes and an hour to all corners of the county due to the lack of ASD classes in their local communities. We are letting down kids with special needs. We are letting down kids who are neurodiverse in terms of the ASD provision. While things are improving, they are not improving quickly enough. The focus for the forthcoming period needs to be on the escalation in the number of places provided to those kids locally.
I will follow on from Deputy O'Sullivan's questions. I welcome the provision of two special schools in Glanmire and Carrigaline but there is a chronic need for special schools throughout County Cork. I was approached yesterday morning by a board of management that intended to seek the provision of a special school.
At the moment we have a massive challenge in terms of kids coming out of primary school. We also have kids with additional needs and complex medical needs who have nowhere to turn. They are faced with commutes in excess of an hour or an hour and a half. In cases I have been dealing with, parents have said to me that they are willing to do that if they think they can get a place for their kid. The Cabinet subcommittee, the entire Government and this House should be looking at how we can address those chronic shortages in the short term, in addition to the long-term planning that is needed. In view of the data and information that are coming through the school services, the need will become more acute in the future. I would welcome a response specifically about individual kids who face having no educational facility in September 2024. This is a chronic crisis and I ask that the issue would be prioritised because we will be judged on how we look after kids with additional needs.
While I welcome the significant work that has been done in the special educational needs area and the allocation of a dedicated Minister of State to hold the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, and the Department to account, the distribution of special education teachers is a critical matter that has come up in recent days in many rural schools. Yesterday, I had the pleasure of discussing Clogher National School outside Castlebar with its principal and one of the parents. The school has experienced nearly 100% growth in enrolment over the past six years. The school has two special needs assistants, SNAs, to support children and it is facing a reduction in its special education teacher, SET, allocation from 20 hours to 17.5 hours. That might seem insignificant but to them it is hugely important. This is particularly alarming given the diverse needs of the students, including a child with Down's syndrome, multiple children with autism and two children with significant speech and language delays.
Similarly, Meelick National School also contacted me, which employs one full-time SET, and shares the role with different schools. The real concern here is the rationale for the removal of complex needs in the context of the allocation of additional resources for schools. It is a real concern, which has been highlighted by AsIAm and Inclusion Ireland and it is causing significant problems for school principals and boards of management.
I thank the Deputy.
I ask that we would revisit the issue with the National Council for Special Education and streamline the review process to ensure there is consistency across the board.
Adult education tutors in education and training boards from across the State will protest outside the Dáil at lunchtime tomorrow. They want to know why the Government is making an offer that falls short of equality with other post-primary teachers. Why is the Government not offering equal pay for work of equal value? Teachers in this country progress up the pay scale based on years of service. Why is the Government offering the adult education tutors progress up the pay scale based on number of hours worked? Why is it defending or promoting a two-tier system?
James O'Keeffe of the adult education tutors organisation says that their employers consider them qualified to stand in front of classes and teach. They are doing the same work as others in the post-primary area who are better paid and they want parity with their permanent colleagues. I put it to the Taoiseach - is that not a fair demand?
I know schools in Carlow that have been told they are getting new builds. A commitment has also been given to one school in Castletroy, Limerick, which my own grandson attends, but there has been no further word on that. My concern is that while we have done a lot with schools and building, we cannot get any communication from the Department on delivery, timescale or if there is a priority list and who is on it. Lack of information is my big concern. Schools are told that they are getting a new build and then cost factors arise. The longer the schools are left before they are built, the greater the extra costs involved in the build. This issue really needs to be addressed.
Parents come to me, as we spoke about earlier, about ASD classes. In County Carlow, families travel an hour to get their child into a school because the buildings are not there. Yet, schools are told to accommodate children with special needs but there is no urgency in building. Schools tell me they will go with it and when they go back to the Department, it is like a ticking-box and there are about 100 papers to be ticked and then the Department looks for further information. There seem to be huge issues. While I know we have done a lot of work, I am aware of a particular school in County Carlow that is using a PE hall as a classroom. That is unacceptable. Other schools have come to me that do not have a proper playground area because they had to build on it. There are many issues. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to get answers - that is becoming the biggest issue.
There are huge issues with special education teacher allocations and the new scheme. We have all been approached by teachers who got the circular. This was first brought to my attention by Fiona Mhic Chonchoille from Scoil Naomh Lorcan in Omeath. She put it very well:
The new SET model that is coming into play from September 2024 is not supporting children with additional needs. The new model is based on academic results and does not take into account any other needs. The Department will say it is up to the principal to give out SET hours but they do not have enough hours allocated so they either help the children with special or additional needs or they just help those children below the tenth percentile with maths and English. The new model has not enough hours allocated for both. These concerns are widespread among schools in Ireland.
Bay Estate national school, the primary school in the estate I am from, was in the House today. Its representatives also brought up the issue that it initially thought it might lose two special education teachers. It might be able to pull it back to one. This will not work for everyone. The whole point is that we need to deal with a more diverse school setting than before. We need to make sure we put the resources where they are required. We know the issues we have had in not delivering for those with disabilities before.
I live in a constituency that has a rapidly expanding population way ahead of what was anticipated even in the recent past. There are a number of schools about which parents are concerned. I am going to one of those meetings tonight in Prosperous. Parents are concerned about the schedule for the provision of a new post-primary school, the provision of school transport associated with the catchment area and the provision of primary and post-primary schools in accordance with the expanding population to meet its needs. There is the added problem of the needs of children who require special needs accommodation, teaching facilities, teachers and assistants. That causes a worry for parents, all of whom are working under pressure and facing cost-of-living increases. They are concerned that next September might cause a problem for them based on the information available so far, which nobody seems to be able to grasp the answers to. Will the Taoiseach join the Minister for Education and assist in every way possible to ensure the provisions urgently required are met in time for the coming school year?
I thank Deputies for their questions and contributions. I think we can all agree with Deputy Boyd Barrett that the quality of school buildings varies hugely. I have the privilege from time to time of opening new schools. I am really impressed with the quality of building and facilities but that reminds me how much we need to do to bring the older ones up to standard. Some of our schools are very old indeed. The budget for school building is now more than €1 billion a year. It has increased dramatically but it is clear we will need to increase it some more given rising building costs in particular. I know the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, and the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, are working on that at the moment. I agree with Deputy Boyd Barrett on the benefits of additional field trips by students.
Deputy O'Sullivan mentioned a number of school projects in County Cork and specifically brought our attention to ASD provision and the need to do more of that, with which I firmly agree. Both Deputies Moynihan and O'Sullivan mentioned the new special schools in Glamire and Carrigaline. There is a relatively new one in my constituency, Danu Community Special School. The Government's preference is still very much for mainstreaming but special schools are needed in certain circumstances. Home tuition is also an option in other circumstances. I agree that we need to prioritise the whole issue of special needs and having a dedicated Minister with a dedicated budget was a good innovation on behalf of this Government, which I hope will continue into the next one.
Deputy Dillon raised the issue of special education teacher allocations. I am advised that schools were advised of their allocations on 6 February. There will be 14,600 special education teachers in the forthcoming school year. That is an increase of 1,000 on 2021 and the highest number ever of special education teachers. The allocation model has been in place since 2017. I am told a limited change was made to the method following consultation with unions, management bodies and schools to hear their views on the strengths and shortcomings of the allocation model. It distributes the total available number of posts in line with the school's profile. Of all schools, 67% saw their allocation increase or retained their previous allocation. Of those who saw a decrease, in almost all cases, it was five hours or less. I appreciate that nobody will welcome or want a decrease for the kids attending their school.
Deputy Barry raised the industrial relations dispute regarding tutors. This is an industrial relations dispute. I am sure it will be resolved - they always are - if not by negotiation, there is always the option of a referral to the WRC or Labour Court where all arguments can be heard and it can make a recommendation.
Deputy Durkan raised the issue of school places in County Kildare, an area that has seen a huge increase in population in recent years. I am advised that in County Kildare, there are 3,500 junior infant pupils and that 4,000 first enrol every year. Enrolment pressures can be driven in some cases by duplication of applications, applications from outside the area and parental or student choice. In the majority of areas, including across most of County Kildare, there are sufficient places available to meet the needs of children in the area. The Government has invested more than €250 million in new school infrastructure in County Kildare. While some applicants may not have received an offer of a school place yet for 2024-25, families can be assured that all children in an area who require a school place will be provided with one. The Government and the Minister are happy to give the assurance to the Deputy that will be the case. We are working with schools and patrons to ensure there are sufficient places available and that everyone has a place for September next year.