Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 15 February 2024
69. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage for an update on both the provision of emergency funding for multi-unit developments with building defects and the legislation to underpin the full defective buildings redress scheme. [6825/24]
Amharc ar fhreagra89. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he will provide an update on the Government progress in implementing a fire safety defects scheme that will allow full remedial works to be carried out on defective buildings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6702/24]
Amharc ar fhreagraI understand that 79 applications have been received by the Department for the interim remediation scheme for apartment and duplex owners with Celtic tiger-era defects across 22 counties, representing almost 7,500 residential units. Will the Minister provide an update on where those application are at and when he expects owner management companies, OMCs, to be able to draw down the funding? Will he also provide an update on when he expects the general scheme of the legislation underpinning the full redress scheme will be brought before the House?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 69 and 89 together.
I thank Deputies Ó Broin and O'Callaghan for their questions on this matter and also their ongoing interest and input. I fully acknowledge the difficulties of homeowners and residents of many apartments and duplexes and the stress they are facing as a result of building defects. The Government is committed to helping those whose lives have been impacted by this very serious issue, with full funding for eligible remediation works that ensure they can remain living in their homes. On 29 January last, I held another public webinar on construction and apartment defects. This is the fifth such webinar I have held to update residents and OMCs. I held these alongside the Construction Defects Alliance, the Apartment Owners' Network and the Not Our Fault 100% redress campaign. I am grateful to their representatives for joining me on these webinars which are really useful for providing updates to affected homeowners. The webinars have been attended by an average of 500 homeowners.
On 11 December last, as referred to by Deputy Ó Broin, I announced the opening of the interim remediation scheme for the funding of emergency fire safety defect works. This has to be our priority because it is about ensuring people's safety where they live. Apartments and duplexes built between 1991 and 2013 qualify for this scheme where the fire safety defects were caused by defective design, poor workmanship or materials that breached the building regulations that applied when the property was built. Apartment owner management companies will be funded to carry out the necessary remediation work on a whole-of-building basis. The interim remediation scheme is being administered by the Housing Agency. We have a new programme manager in place specifically for this scheme. It is operated on a nationwide basis and applications can be made by OMCs via the Housing Agency’s website.
As Deputy Ó Broin mentioned, we have received 79 applications. These are being progressed across 22 local authority areas, representing approximately 7,500 residential units. I expect the first of those to be approved very shortly, that is, in the coming weeks. We are using some of the applications as exemplars to work through the application and verification processes. What is also good is that the guidelines are completed regarding the appropriateness or level of work that needs to be done on the fire defects side. We put a lot of work into that issue and the guidelines are very clear and have been published. Registered contractors will now know exactly what works need to be done.
Since I received Government approval to draft legislation for the permanent scheme to establish supports for the remediation of fire safety, structural safety and water ingress defects in designated apartment buildings, the Department has been advancing the steps to put the remediation scheme on a statutory footing as a matter of priority. There are complex issues within it but the interim scheme helps with that in looking at other legislation such as the defective concrete blocks Act and the pyrite remediation scheme. Given this, and the significant amount of Exchequer funding the Government has committed to assist affected homeowners, sufficient time is required to ensure the scheme is fit for purpose, provides value for money and, most important, does what we want it to do, namely, support residents in getting their homes back in shape and their lives back together.
I expect the draft legislation to be published in the coming months. I am chasing it up and it is being worked on right now. I want to focus on the fire safety piece and encourage OMCs and individuals to make applications. The Housing Agency is working through those applications directly with agents and OMCs to make sure the proper information is provided. It is not an onerous process.
The other area I am looking at relates to retrospective payments for people who have already remediated and paid for the remediation. I do not believe I will need to wait for the permanent legislation for that to do be done. I am looking at options to refund, obviously on a whole-of-building basis, hard-earned money that people had to borrow or levies that they paid. Again, it will go back to those who have actually paid for remediation. We envisage about a third of the properties have been remediated already-----
The Minister will get a chance to come back in.
I thank the Minister. With respect to fire safety, I would be interested to know if, even at this stage, he has an indication of how much expenditure is likely to be required for the applications and specifically when people will be able to draw down the money. I welcome the fact that decisions will be made soon.
Regarding the legislation, does the Minister envisage an end-to-end scheme such as the pyrite remediation scheme in Leinster or a grant scheme similar to that for defective concrete blocks?
I welcome what the Minister said about retrospection. If there was a standalone refund that could be expedited, he would have Sinn Féin's support on that. Will he confirm that social homes will be fully included in the scheme? Where houses or duplexes in multiple unit developments with OMCs have defects, will there be an opportunity to have those included? I know they are not in the original terms of reference but it would be unfair if a house or duplex in an OMC were excluded despite having similar defects to the apartments in the same scheme.
I will ask about two aspects of this. First, what will happen in the case of management companies where there are serious and known fire safety defects but the management company is not engaging? That can be very unfair on the individual homeowners and residents. As the Minister knows, management companies are not properly regulated and they need to be. What will the Minister do about that?
The second issue is where homes with serious fire safety defects are being sold on, often to unsuspecting buyers. There have been a number of instances of this. It causes huge stress and hardship when people discover they have put their life savings into buying a defective home. Will anything be done about that? I draw the Minister's attention to an article in The Ditch published this week. It detailed the failure of a management company in an area of north Dublin to deal with fire safety defects that first came to light in 2012 for several years. I ask the Minister to address those two particular aspects.
To answer Deputy Ó Broin's question, duplexes within multi-unit developments are included.
The onus is on the purchaser when purchasing a property to ensure the property is surveyed properly. With regard to properties that are sold on, survey work should obviously be done before someone purchases a home. This happened in the pyrite and infill schemes where people genuinely did not know. People may find themselves in the position Deputy O'Callaghan highlighted due to poor professional advice or for other reasons. That was dealt with in the pyrite and infill scheme where the "should have known" clause was effectively set aside on the basis of appeal. I would expect people to be able to apply to the scheme.
A very serious issue relates to some OMCs that are not engaging. Residents can engage and the Housing Agency will assist in that. Most multi-unit developments will have a managing agent. We have been dealing with the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland, SCSI, on a regular basis to make sure the agents are fully au fait with what is now available. To be fair, all Deputies in the House and the members of the housing committee, including Deputies Ó Broin and Cian O'Callaghan, agree that the absolute priority is families and people's safety. It is crucial we deal with the fire safety piece first.
With regard to cost, I do not have a handle on the overall cost. What was interesting from the working group report was that while fire safety issues were the predominant issues, these were, on average, lower cost. That very much varies from apartment to apartment. We were looking at an average cost overall, between structural defects, water ingress and fire safety, of approximately €26,000 per unit but that varies greatly depending on the works. I know of apartment developments where fire safety work has been done and the cost per apartment has been in the low thousands. The works could involve rectifying breaks between apartments and things like that, whereas other works can be more difficult.
I thank the Minister for the clarification with respect to duplexes. There are schemes, such as Millford Manor in Kildare, where the houses had the same defects as the apartments and there was a very serious fire. I ask the Minister to look at that in the context of the legislation.
Has the Minister made up his mind yet on whether this will be an end-to-end scheme similar to the pyrite mediation scheme or a grant scheme? Given the complexity of multi-unit developments, I strongly recommend an end-to-end scheme.
With respect to Deputy Cian O'Callaghan's question around an obligation to declare, there needs to be a change to the law to provide for such a legal obligation where a seller has information about defects, for example, from an extraordinary general meeting, EGM. A standard surveyor's inspection of the property when someone is purchasing will not reveal, for example, the absence of fire stopping, water ingress, etc. For this reason, purchasers of apartments are in a very difficult position. We have seen some cases in the media where people, following purchase, are then contacted by a managing agent or management company to say there are severe defects. I know that is a separate issue, which rests not with the Minister's Department but with the Department of Justice, but I strongly recommend the Minister discuss it with his ministerial colleague.
There should be a legal obligation to declare. When someone gets a survey the surveyors generally do not start opening up the walls to see whether there is fire stopping in place. They tend not to do those kinds of invasive survey works, so there are deficiencies in that process. Given that is unethical to knowingly sell a defective property, should there not be a legal change to give buyers protection? Is that something the Government will consider?
When management companies do not engage but individual residents do, will the Minister give more information on how that works, especially with regard to shared walls, properties, boundaries and those sort of things?
In the context of building defects, when does the Minister propose to formally include County Sligo in the defective concrete blocks grant scheme? In June 2021, I put forward an amendment to a motion to include County Sligo in that scheme and it was carried overwhelmingly in this House. Over the past two years, I have had many letters from the Minister's Department and to be fair, the Minister has always responded promptly. In the most recent letter, which I received at the end of January, the Minister stated the Department had completed its investigations and consultations and a report was being drawn up to, hopefully, include Sligo in the scheme. Where are we with that? Will the Minister give me an update? Will he give certainty to those people who have been waiting a very long time and find themselves in a really difficult position?
I raise the issue of adding County Louth to the defective blocks scheme. I spoke to the Minister about this previously.
It was last night.
Unfortunately, I am aware of a number of properties where the owners found cracks and had the work done, but then had reports done which showed, unfortunately, that the problem is pyrite. I will not name the townland other than to say it is in mid-Louth. Obviously we have given this information to Louth County Council. One of the properties was previously a council house that was bought under the incremental tenant purchase scheme. I hope Louth County Council will be in contact with the Minister, and I will engage with it on that. I ask the Minister and his Department to move quickly. These people have found themselves in dreadful circumstances and fear their houses will come down around them. People have the same issues in Donegal, Sligo and other places.
With regard to the defective concrete block, DCB, scheme, I specifically structured the legislation to ensure we can add additional counties. Homeowners need to know that where they have defective concrete blocks and they meet the criteria set out in the primary legislation, the State is there to help them because of a market failure.
To answer Deputy Harkin, I await the final submission. I expect to add Sligo, as I said publicly a couple of weeks ago. Where a submission is made to formally add a county to a scheme, the local authority will collate the data it receives, carry out surveys with the assistance of the Housing Agency and then report back to the Department. I expect Sligo to be added to the scheme because we have the data from the county. I have not received the formal submission yet but it is imminent and I will let the Deputy know.
With regard to County Louth, I spoke to Deputy Ó Murchú about the matter last night on the margins of the proceedings. I have not received any details from Louth yet. The local authority has a role in that regard. In my county, Fingal, we have a very small number of affected homes - it is approximately 12 or 14 - which will be included. Again, we await that submission. Homeowners need to know that this Government will assist them. They must meet the criteria that have been set down and the mechanism to do that is via their local authorities. When we get a submission to the Department we will include them in the scheme. Sligo will be included very soon.
On the points raised by Deputies O'Callaghan and Ó Broin, conveyance and the management of multi-unit developments fall under the Department of Justice. Work is being done on conveyance by an interdepartmental group led by the Department of Justice. The principle of caveat emptor applies to everyone who buys an apartment built within the relevant period of time. The OMC accounts will show if there are levies being levied on homeowners. That would all come through in the conveyance. I take the point with regard to there being a legal onus. I know surveyors will not open up walls.
Even from financial data or talking to residents in an estate or prospective neighbours, most people will be aware of whether there are issues within their apartments. It should be a small number of cases but we will allow those people-----
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire.
I will conclude on this really quickly because it is important. The pyrite and infill scheme did set aside the "should have known" clause, if someone can actually prove they genuinely did not and made every effort to. I expect that to be the same with the apartment defects scheme.
