Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 20 February 2024
56. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will provide an update on the establishment of an interdepartmental working group with the Department of Health to examine and review the system of means testing for carer payments and related schemes; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7231/24]
Amharc ar fhreagraWill the Minister provide an update on the establishment of an interdepartmental working group with the Department of Health to examine and review the system for means testing for carer payments and related schemes? We dealt with this issue previously. We all know the issues around the thresholds. Anything that can be done to introduce some element of flexibility into the system and something that works to benefit those people doing a great amount of work for the State and for their families, would be welcome.
The main income supports to carers provided by my Department are the carer’s allowance, the carer’s benefit, the domiciliary care allowance and the carer’s support grant. Spending on these payments is expected to amount to more than €1.7 billion this year.
Since my appointment as Minister, I have made a number of improvements in the social welfare system to enhance the supports available for our carers. These have included an increase of €150 to the annual carer’s support grant, bringing it to €1,850, the highest level since its introduction. The weekly rates of carer’s allowance and carer’s benefit have increased by €29 over the last three budgets.
Specifically with regard to carer’s allowance, I am the first Minister since 2007 to make changes to the means test. In June 2022, the income disregards were increased from €332.50 to €350 for a single person, and from €665 to €750 for carers with a spouse or partner.
As part of budget 2024, the weekly income disregard will be further increased from €350 to €450 for a single person and from €750 to €900 for carers with a spouse or partner. Notwithstanding these substantial improvements made to the payments under my remit, as part of budget 2024, I announced my intention to establish an interdepartmental working group with the Department of Health to examine and review the system of means tests for carers payments. My officials are engaging with their counterparts in the Department of Health to progress this issue and I expect the group to report back to me later this year.
The work of the group will be informed by a broader review of means testing currently underway in my Department, which is targeted for completion by Q1 of 2024, with a report to be published shortly afterwards. The work of the interdepartmental group will also be considered within the context of review of the national carers strategy, led by the Department of Health.
I trust that this clarifies the matter.
We all welcome the increase in payments and thresholds but we also understand that a significant number of people who are not on big money can be detrimentally impacted depending on where the thresholds are. I suppose that is why the Minister is looking at the interdepartmental working group. I understand that when people hear those sorts of terms, they think it is an excuse to do nothing but I have no doubt that there will be follow through. Did I catch it correctly that she is looking at means testing for her entire Department and thinks that report will be finished in the first quarter of this year?
All right. Perhaps the Minister could give an update on the timeline. She said later in the year but perhaps we could have some sort of notion of roughly when the report from the interdepartmental working group might be available.
I thank the Deputy. I have increased the threshold for the means test capital allowance for carers. I have also increased the income thresholds so that from June, a couple will be able to earn up to €900 per week and have €50,000 in savings and will still qualify for the full carer's allowance payment. The reality is that no matter where I draw the line, some people will fall on the other side of it. I do not want to see people left behind. I know women who have given up their jobs to care for children with disabilities. They do not qualify for any payment because their partners work. That is not right because the care they provide should be recognised. It is being recognised in the pension for long-term carers.
The reason I have set up this interdepartmental group with the Department of Health is to examine means testing entirely. The Deputy knows that the social welfare system is to keep people out of poverty and to provide them with a basic income. Somebody is going to have to grasp the nettle and pay carers for what they do. They make a considerable contribution when they care for somebody with a disability and cannot work. It was my idea to set up this interdepartmental group because it is not until we sit everyone around the table that we will find a way forward. That is also while I feel it is important that we vote "Yes" in the upcoming referendum. It clearly states that we want to strive to support carers. The way I see it is that what we have got, we hold, and we move forward and build on more supports for carers. That is why it is important that we vote "Yes".
It is positive that the interdepartmental working group is going to happen. In fairness, the Minister put it better than I would. Mothers and fathers are doing not only their families but also the State a significant service. We have all met people who have been forced to change the nature of their lives because of the enormous work they have to do in caring for family members who have complex additional needs. That needs to be recognised and, as I say, I welcome the moves that have been made. We must ensure we keep our eye on the goal and target and ensure we can deliver a system that works. I get it; wherever the Minister puts the thresholds, there will be a difficulty. However, a threshold that allows fewer people to be detrimentally impacted has to be considered. As I say, she can do this work and have this group up and running. It can report back to her and she can take action. All of us would welcome that as soon as possible. These are the means by which we can deliver for carers.
On the basis of what she has just said to the House, I encourage the Minister to work with her Government colleagues on this issue, in particular for those people who applied for the carer's allowance several years ago, or up to a decade ago in some cases. Over that time, that person's partner may have had an increase in salary. Many of those people do not understand that it is a means-tested payment and then inadvertently find themselves in the situation where they are beyond the threshold. They then become concerned and worried about the situation. We need to move beyond the idea that caring for somebody calls for a means tested payment. There should be a payment for caring. I encourage the Minister to work with her Government colleagues and I am happy to work with her from the Fianna Fáil perspective.
I thank the Deputies. As I said, the interdepartmental group has been set up. It is not a new idea that people should work together. They should work together but sometimes we get into Departments and look after what is specific to our areas when in actual fact, we need to take a much broader cross-government approach. I have worked hard with the carer's association, which has been extremely helpful. A lot has happened but more must be done. I cannot pay carers for the work they do. That would be impossible. However, the Department of Health has a role here. We all have to sit down and work out a pathway forward. That is why it is so important that through this referendum, we put into our Constitution that we recognise and will strive to support care in our country. That is an important statement that this Government is making on care in society.
