Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 15 May 1924

Vol. 7 No. 8

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE.

PADRAIC O MAILLE

I beg to propose a resolution in connection with the suggested change in the Committee of Public Accounts as regards the number of the Committee itself and the number to form a quorum. The resolution reads that:—

(1) The Committee of Public Accounts should consist of twelve members instead of nine as provided in Standing Order No. 100; (2) the quorum to be four instead of five as provided in the Standing Order, and (3) Standing Order No. 100 be altered accordingly.

This recommendation has come from the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, as it has been found difficult to get a quorum for the meetings of the Public Accounts Committee.

Mr. JOHNSON

The reason why it was found necessary to ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to deal with this matter was that it had been found difficult to get a quorum of five out of nine. The Committee, according to Standing Orders, should consist of nine members, of whom five would form a quorum. It has been found difficult, as I say, to obtain a quorum without considerable delay, and the work of the Committee has been held up because it was found very undesirable and wasteful to ask important officers of the State to wait for half an hour or three-quarters of an hour on a quorum. Consequently, the Committee on Public Accounts brought the matter before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges with a view to altering the quorum, or altering the number of the Committee. The Committee on Procedure has decided to recommend that both the total number of the Committee and the quorum should be altered.

I would like to take the opportunity to say that this question of attendance at Committees is one of very much more importance than many Deputies seem to have realised, and I think it would be well to have some expression of opinion from the Dáil as to what are the duties of a Deputy with regard to attendance on Committees. I assume, rightly or wrongly, that when seeking representation in the Dáil I was promising to fulfil the obligations of membership if I were elected, and one of these obligations was to carry out faithfully the duties of attendance on Committees on which I might be appointed. I think that the duty of serving on a Committee, especially such a Committee as that on Public Accounts, is of equal importance to attendance at the Dáil when a vote is called for. I would ask for some expression of opinion as to whether it is not incumbent upon Deputies who are appointed to Committees to make every effort to attend them, or immediately to resign when they find they are not able to attend.

Major COOPER

In a sense I suppose I should put on the penitent sheet, because I did not attend the meetings of the Committee.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

That was explained.

Major COOPER

The Government had charged me with another function, and I thought it necessary to carry that function out. I entirely endorse what Deputy Johnson said, and I hope that it will be particularly taken to heart in the case of Committees on Private Bills which we are now going to set up, because then it will not merely be a case of having important Government officials waiting; it will be a case of having counsel waiting, and if the Private Bill Committees cannot get a quorum the result will be that the promoters and opponents will have their counsel waiting there. They will have to pay them, and will be put to cruelly unnecessary expense because of the neglect of their duties by members of the Dáil. I hope we shall not be placed in that position, and that any Deputy who is placed on a Private Bill Committee will see that it is his duty to attend. With regard to the general question, I want to emphasise the fact that, generally speaking, unless there is great urgency, it is objectionable to bring in amendments to the Standing Orders without notice. If Standing Orders are to be altered without notice the whole procedure of the Dáil will be at the mercy of a chance majority, but in this case the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and Deputy Johnson have convinced me that if the work of the Public Accounts Committee, which is work of the highest importance to the State, is to be carried on at all, it is necessary to alter this rule. Therefore, I shall not offer any opposition to the alteration.

Mr. HEWAT

I do not feel very guilty in this matter, because the Dáil has not, so far, entrusted me with many duties on Committees, and what they have I have discharged as far as it was in my power. But I would say this, that the Dáil will have to take into consideration the accommodation provided for the Committees. The room in which this Public Accounts Committee and, I take it, many other Committees sit, Committee Room No. 2, is really not sufficiently large for the purpose. At this Committee we have had a number of public officials; as Deputy Johnson has said, we have had a difficulty in getting the required number of Deputies to attend. But assume that you increase the membership of this Committee from nine to twelve, and in view of what has fallen from the lips of Deputy Johnson, that the Committee may brighten up as regards attendances, supposing the whole of the twelve attend, with five or six officials, I am afraid that there will be a very considerable absence of air after a very short time, because there is really not room for them.

PADRAIC O MAILLE

In reply to the point raised by Deputy Cooper, I think it is only fair to state that the members of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges fully recognise that it was an undesirable thing to change the Standing Orders without giving due notice, but there was special urgency in this case, as it was important that a meeting of this Committee should be held to-morrow. That is the reason why no notice was given.

Question—"That the Report of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges be adopted"—put and agreed to.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

The additional members of the Committee of Public Accounts will be nominated by the Committee of Selection.