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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 3 Jul 1924

Vol. 8 No. 4

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - ESTIMATES FOR PUBLIC SERVICES. VOTE 19: RELIEF SCHEMES.—DEBATE RESUMED.

On yesterday afternoon I listened to the debate on the Vote of £250,000 for these relief schemes. The criticisms and arguments used in the debate were used to emphasise distress in the first place, and, secondly, to have more money applied to relieve it. These were the two particular features that were approached by Deputies in considering this Vote. Now I feel that it is not so much the amount of money as the fact that there is distress, widespread and particularly acute in the congested areas, urgent at the moment. While other Deputies pointed out the widespread necessity of relief from the point of view of distress, there were very few suggestions made here with regard to the best way to relieve that distress. Deputy Hewat dealt with it from the point of view of money being given in the shape of a grant which would not be reproductive, and he asserted what I think was quite true, that if such a system is adopted, it will mean that this situation will become chronic and permanent, and that it is likely to be a permanent drag on the State. I think that argument is irrefutable. Deputy Good made one suggestion, the only one that I think was really of importance, and that was the question of applying moneys from this grant to the improvement of the harbours and landing-places all around the coast in the congested areas. I think that was a very valuable suggestion. It will give employment while these works are being done in the areas where employment is most urgently needed, and it will give us, as a result, a chance of being able to develop the fishing industry as it must be developed in this country. It will also give our people an opportunity of being able to engage in that industry and become self supporting. They will then be able to earn a livelihood themselves, without any aid from relief schemes or from the State. I would urge that the Ministry should consider that suggestion very carefully.

The question of the roads and their improvement is being undertaken. It is very useful work at the moment, but it only touches the fringe of the question. After all it will not be on the same status as to reproductive returns or results as money expended on the harbours. In the county that I know best, that is, my own county, the people there are ready and anxious and willing to work. They are capable of doing good work and are not likely to demand an unreasonable wage. The industries in that county that were able to provide for the people, pre-war, and keep them busily engaged are at the present time lying idle. We have the homespun industry, the carpet industry, our hosiery manufacture, our shirt-making industry, our granite industry and our kelp industry all lying dormant and idle. These only require some consideration and some assistance to be given, not so much in the shape of financial assistance as in the way of arranging markets for the disposal of their products. Assistance might also be given in the way of arranging for such transport facilities as will make these works profitable, and enable them to be conducted on a profitable basis, the shirt-making industry particularly. Derry city, which is in the Co. Donegal, has become famous as a shirt-making centre all over the world, but up to about 18 years ago, at the time it was earning this reputation, very few shirts were made in Derry. They were made in the Co. Donegal, and on the basis of the expert work done there Derry earned its reputation for shirt-making. Now what is the fact? All the shirts are made in the factory in Derry. The Trade Board we have has actually fixed a wage in the Co. Donegal at a 1/2d. per hour above the fixed wage fixed by the same Board in the City of Derry. I consider that policy is altogether absurd, and why that should be done to deprive these people of being able to earn a livelihood that they are capable of earning, unless they proceed to do work illegally or to evade the provision of the Trade Board Act, seems very strange. That is the position that they are placed in, if they engage in work which they are well capable of doing.

I think the Government should take full notice of those things. I do believe in the stress of work which has fallen upon our Executive, they have not been able to take into account the circumstances that apply in such areas outside. They have not had the time. I do urge them to find some means of applying themselves towards discovering what are the actual facts and the difficulties that are making it imperative that we should have to provide money for relief schemes, whereas in the particular areas involved it is quite possible to arrange that the people there can be made self-supporting without any need for grants at intervals, or even continuous grants. However trifling, I believe a sum of £250,000 would enable a start to be made. If the Government wish they could proceed in the right direction, and the Dáil will have no difficulty in supplementing that grant and giving the money required to do work so valuable to the nation, work that will save the nation in future from the situation we have to face to-day with regard to unprecedented distress.

I wish the Minister would increase this amount.

Why were you not here yesterday to vote for an increase?

He was late.

I am here to-day. I wonder how much of this £250,000, if it is distributed in the same manner as the £100,000 given for road work, will fall into the hands of the people it is really meant for? I would like to know from the Minister for Local Government and Public Health how many councils in the Saorstát have accepted the road grant.

The road grant is not in this estimate.

What grant does the Deputy mean?

The road grant.

The road grant is for £1,000,000.

The road grant does not come under this Vote and the Minister cannot answer the Deputy's question.

I want to say that £250,000 may seem a fairly large sum, but when it is distributed amongst 80,000 unemployed it will not relieve very much distress. If it would be feasible, another £250,000 should be added and then it might be possible to get something done to relieve distress. I see by the Press that the Labour Party proposed £3,000,000, or some large sum yesterday, and they were defeated. I wonder would the Party support my suggestion to increase this amount to £500,000?

We will if you get it moved.

Some time ago I asked if it would be possible to get a grant for the purpose of reviving industries. There are many corn mills idle in the country and the expenditure of a little money would help to re-start them. Perhaps the Government might see their way to purchase factories that are closed down in several towns for the purpose of giving employment to the people there. That would be much better than to spend the money through the Labour Exchanges in the form of doles. It has sometimes been suggested here that the workers go to the Labour Exchanges more or less with their hands out for alms when they are willing and able to work for the money they get. It would be much better if the Government purchased and re-started factories that have been closed down through labour disputes or otherwise. Factories have been closed or ruined through trade disputes.

Very often it does happen that the employer cannot agree with the employees, or the employees do not agree with the employer; the works are closed down and probably they are never opened again. Then there is a cry out for assistance. If the Government are really serious with regard to relieving distress, the first thing they should do would be to introduce some measure in order that they may be able to settle such disputes as arise, and that would be detrimental to industry. They might be able to intervene in cases where employers, through the closing down of their business, would be about to leave the country. In such a case as that, unless some one intervened, the workers might never be reinstated. I have in mind a saw-mill that has been closed down for a number of years.

Is the Deputy advocating compulsory arbitration in industrial disputes? If he is, it has nothing to do with the Vote.

If I am going too far I am sure you will call me to order. As I have said, I have in mind a saw-mill that has been closed down.

The Deputy will have to sit down. I will not hear anything more about the sawmill.

I quite agree with the Deputies who have spoken, that it would be much better if this money were spent in reproductive work than in what is commonly called the dole.

This vote has nothing whatever to do with unemployment insurance?

Nothing at all.

I did not refer to unemployment insurance.

You mentioned the dole.

I said it would be much better if this money were spent in reproductive work. In conjunction with Deputy Colohan, I put up certain schemes for drainage work which is badly needed in our district. These schemes were certified by the county surveyor and they were schemes which would give a good deal of employment and that was badly wanted in Kildare County.

The Minister stated the schemes would have favourable consideration, but it would appear they have been turned down. We have not heard anything about them for a considerable time. I would ask the Minister to reconsider the matter and see if money could not be more usefully spent in that direction than the direction in which it is proposed to be spent.

Before this discussion proceeds on the main question, it would be well if the Minister would give us the information asked for yesterday at the beginning of this debate, namely, the Minister's proposals for the allocation of this money and the nature of the schemes under which it is proposed to expend it. It would be well to have that information and then we might be in a position to make suggestions or criticisms.

There are no definite schemes at present elaborated for consideration in respect to this £250,000. Already £40,000 have been provisionally allocated to congested districts and £10,000 to water works and drainage schemes in Dingle. Other than those two sums, there have been no special allocations out of this fund.

I would like to draw attention to the allocation of £40,000 for congested districts. It is obviously wholly inadequate for the situation that we all know exists. Let me just briefly state facts I have had communicated from friends to me. I could give the names of families whom they concern. Usually these families live on two sources of income. One is the potato that they sow in small patches, and the other is money earned by harvesting. Last year's potato crop was bad; the potatoes failed about February or March of this year. Ordinarily the people would have had, during the period between the going out of old potatoes in February and the coming in of new potatoes about the end of July or the beginning of August, nothing but dry bread to live upon, made from the white flour they would purchase from the shops with money earned in the previous year's harvesting. Last year's harvest was bad, and the majority of those who went away brought back very little—some of them nothing at all. The potatoes have failed, and, in villages adjacent to the sea, fishing has been bad. There has been no money to purchase flour, and the people in many districts were actually starving. White flour-made bread is a forgotten luxury, and the people are living on Indian meal twice a day. Cases have been reported to me asking for influence to be used with philanthropists to assist those places where babies in arms are being fed on the white of an egg beaten up with bog water. I have seen that actually myself in past times, and I am not at all too credulous in believing that it is happening now. These facts exist from North of Donegal to Kerry. I could mention the names of families in Connemara, Achill, and Belmullet who are actually starving.

They are the finest people in the world and some of the best friends that anyone could have. To speak under such circumstances of £40,000 is to speak in terms of a sum of money that is entirely inadequate for distress that is very grievous indeed. If the entire sum of money were to be allocated to the congested districts it would hardly suffice to deal with the need that is present there, and which apparently is to get worse, because the latest information is that light has appeared in the potato crop, so that the situation between now and the autumn will be one of great peril. I hope that enquiry will be made to ascertain what the facts are by those who will be sent down to report upon them, and that, when these have been found, measures will be taken to meet the situation by the allocation of a much larger sum of money. We heard Deputy Hewat yesterday speak of the necessity of meeting conditions like these by the expenditure of money that would be reproductive. We are all agreed with that, but here is a need and here is distress that exists, and there is no time to deal with it in such manner as to deal with the roots of the origin of the trouble. The people are now in sore distress, and the only way in which it can be met is by immediate alleviation, even though that immediate alleviation be not of a kind calculated to be reproductive, and the wisest form of expenditure will be, at least, for the maintenance of life in those districts.

I would like to support very strongly the appeal of Deputy Figgis that this sum of £40,000 which has been allocated should be very considerably increased so far as the congested areas are concerned. There is no doubt whatever in the minds of Deputies in this House, or in the minds of anybody who knows the congested areas, that £40,000 will go a very small way indeed towards relieving the present distress that exists there. If that is the sum that is to be expended it is certain there are many areas there which will get no relief whatever. I would like to press this point which has been mentioned by Deputy Figgis, that this is the particular time of the year when distress is greatest. Anyone who knows the conditions of life in the West knows that July is spoken of as the hungry month. At this time they have just got in the new seed and are waiting for the new crop, and they have nothing to live on except what they get from friends in America and from the harvesting in England. I urge that a much greater sum than £40,000 should be allocated. The congestion is greater now than it will be in October or November, when the harvest comes in. The amount available in this Vote is £250,000. We hold that it is not enough, even with the allocation that the President has mentioned, £40,000 to the Congested Districts Board and £10,000 to waterworks in Kerry.

The £40,000 is not for the Congested Districts Board, but for the congested areas.

Mr. O'CONNELL

I understand that; it is for the areas covered by the late Congested Districts Board. That sets free £50,000, and there is still £200,000 available, and I strongly press that a considerable proportion of that sum should be set free now, because the distress is greater now than it will be later on. Men are there looking for work, and it is easy for Deputies, like Deputy Hewat, to speak of the extension of industry and the need for peace and stability, but that kind of talk does not go down with men who are hungry, and who are willing and ready to work if work is provided for them. It is not profitable to talk about stability and peace to such men. I urge as strongly as I can on the Ministry the necessity for dealing with this problem. I agree with Deputy Hewat, of course, that reform should be permanent reform, but what is going to happen in the interval when we are trying to make it a permanent reform? We must deal with it in a temporary way. This is one way, in any case, to deal with it.

Deputy Sears pointed out very wisely yesterday that if we are to have faith in the measures taken under the Land Act and by the Minister of Agriculture, and that they are to go a long way— and I am one of those who have that faith that they will go a long way to relieve that chronic distress that does exist in those districts—we should see that while waiting for the coming into full operation of the Land Act, distress should not be most acute. That is why I urge, at this particular time, that the Government should use the fund which is here ready to be voted, even though we hold that it is not enough. They should use all of it to relieve the very pressing distress that exists in those areas.

I agree with the Deputies who stated that the amount of this grant is altogether inadequate. I also agree with the Deputy who said yesterday that the Government are really tinkering with this problem. During the course of this debate we have heard a good deal about the distress in different parts of Ireland, particularly in the West and the NorthWest of the country. I would like to point out that distress, on a scale that is perhaps not much less, exists in other parts of the country. Portion of the constituency that I represent— West Cork—is in a particularly deplorable condition at the present time. The islands near Skibbereen, the district around Castletownbere, and the whole of the western portion of Cork County, are in a pitiable way. There are two islands. These are islands, Hare Island and Shirken Island, where the people have not sufficient food at the present time. There are places where people have not got a square meal for a long time. A Deputy belonging to the Government Party who lives in the vicinity, Deputy Connolly, if he were here, could bear that matter out. In Hare Island there is no road, and though the matter has been brought to the notice of the Government on different occasions, nothing has been done. The people have to go very long distances to the nearest town, Skibbereen, in order to transact whatever business they have to do, and the journey for a good many of them takes a couple of days. The position in other remote portions of County Cork is equally bad. I live in a small town in West Cork. I am able to prove that quite recently within a few miles of that town there were two deaths due to actual starvation. It ought to be very encouraging to the relatives of the two children who died from starvation to hear themselves described, as they were described yesterday, as ca' canny individuals who wanted to do as little as they could. It would also be an encouragement for them to know that that was the sympathy they could expect from a well-fed and comfortable member of this House.

The position in a good many parts of the country, and particularly in districts within my own knowledge, is at the present time desperate. I know of small towns in West Cork where poverty did not exist on any considerable scale until recently. Within the past three or four weeks children of honest, respectable working men have been looking for bread from door to door, and I know of cases where parents were unable to send their children to school because they had no food to give them. I put it to the Government that that is a desperate position for people of any civilised country to be in. The workers of the country had to suffer in order that the measure of liberty that we now have might be attained. It is a desperate position to find themselves in to-day when they might expect that their condition would improve with the measure of freedom that the people have obtained. The President, speaking yesterday, quoted the Minister for Local Government in regard to the state of affairs that exists in many counties, that people were not willing to avail of the work that was offered. I am afraid the Minister for Local Government is a very bad authority in that respect. The Minister for Local Government has not given us a good headline in the matter of unemployment all over the country. I can give a concrete case where his action in West Cork has been the means of hurting a local industry. Within five or six miles of Skibbereen there is a slate quarry, and owing to lack of orders it is in a very disturbed condition. There or four months ago an hospital in Skibbereen had to be roofed, and asbestos was imported from Belgium to roof that hospital, while 20 or 30 workers in the quarry I speak of were thrown out of work. When such a thing can happen at the instigation of the Minister for Local Government, I think he is not an authority to be relied on.

This Vote does not concern the Minister for Local Government. The action of the Minister for Local Government should have been raised on the Local Government Vote.

May I point out that this Vote deals with the terms and conditions that have to be submitted towards the relief of unemployment and distress, and if the Local Government Ministry is concerned in that it may have reference to his attitude on this question.

The Deputy raises the question of the approval of the Ministry of Local Government for some kind of a scheme for a county hospital. That comes under the Ministry of Local Government and not under this Vote. There is no doubt about that.

Mr. MURPHY

I will not press that point further. There is just one other matter that I would like to refer to. Yesterday when an effort was made by Deputies on these benches to get this Vote increased we heard very pious sentiments expressed by Deputy Sears, and to-day by Deputy McGoldrick in connection with this matter. I say that in view of their action in voting against an increase that the sentiments they expressed yesterday and to-day are so much cant. I think it is not very much use for people to get themselves into the Press by uttering pious sentiments here and by deliberately voting against measures that would give some practical effect to such sentiments. The position, as I say, is very bad in the country, and while it has been somewhat eased by the introduction of the Unemployment Insurance Bill it is desperate still. I may say that the workers in a good many parts of the country who speak to us are giving up hope. The position is getting worse and in a short time the Government will be faced with something more dangerous than they have experienced hitherto. The time will come when some of us will have to go back to the workers and tell them that we too have given up hope and that they must look to other means to right their wrongs.

All the speeches, so far, in connection with this grant, have been devoted to areas outside the city of Dublin. I just wish to say a few words, and ask the Minister in connection with the relief of distress not to forget those in the slums of the city of Dublin. The Deputy who has just spoken mentioned a case of starvation in West Cork. I can assure the Minister that within a stone's throw of Nelson's Pillar, within the past couple of months, there have been many deaths from starvation. I would like the Minister to make inquiries from the various women's organisations that are operating in Dublin. They will tell him of a number of dead-born babies within the past six months that were due to the semi-starvation of the mothers. Any of the women's organisations in Dublin will give evidence of that. I hope when this grant is being allocated that all the money will not go to areas outside the city of Dublin. I am perfectly satisfied that the position is bad elsewhere. I have had letters, too, from people outside my own area. I am satisfied that in Kerry and Donegal there are many deserving cases for relief. I am told that starvation exists to-day in Donegal, and while I am in sympathy with the people there I must ask the Minister not to forget those who are eking out a bare existence in Dublin. To-day it is a case of the poor helping the poor in the slums in Dublin. I hope they will not be forgotten when this grant is distributed.

The President, on behalf of the Minister for Finance in this matter, has stated to the House what was in the minds of the Government when they came to the conclusion, as they certainly did, that £250,000 was a fair amount to allocate for the relief of unemployment and distress. I would like to ask him quite frankly how did they come to the conclusion that £250,000 was an adequate figure for this purpose. If they gave any consideration to this matter at all, or if they had any information at their disposal as to the destitution and distress that exist not alone in Dublin and in the congested areas but all over the country, they should have known that this £250,000 is quite incapable of meeting the situation. If they think so, then I do not agree with them. The President has, as a matter of fact, said that £40,000 was allocated to the congested areas and £10,000 for a waterworks in Dingle. There must be some intention in the minds of the Executive Council or the Minister for Finance as to how the remaining £200,000 is to be spent. Is this £200,000 that remains to be allocated for the relief of distress and unemployment to be based on certain amounts for a constituency or a county or a district, or for parties or individuals who have the greatest amount of influence with the Government in matters of this kind?

I am aware that schemes have been put up—I have been associated with some members in connection with the matter myself—which would give work to the unemployed, and produce a return for the money expended. The Government or the Minister for Finance, who appears to be the individual who uses a sledge-hammer in this particular instance, has turned a deaf ear to the appeals I have been associated with in this matter. We must get some explanation, and that explanation must be given now on the points I have mentioned. I have for a long time taken a serious view of the situation that has arisen, and that is developing in the country, as a result of the distress and destitution. Even in countries which are normal that is always the result of unemployment. The worker who has persons depending upon him for support, if he be willing to work, and cannot find work, must blame the Government that is in power. That occurs in countries that are normal, and this country has not been normal, and is not normal. In such a case those people are naturally driven into the ranks of the revolutionary movement. That is the explanation, and take it to heart. People in by-elections are voting against the Government, not because they are anti-Treaty, but because they are driven to it because the Government is not facing the situation in the country. Limerick, I think, is clear proof of that. There were 11,000 votes turned against the Government there as compared with the election in August last. I say that is due solely to the fact that the starving people of Limerick, as elsewhere, are being driven into the ranks of the revolutionary movement. They are fully convinced that the Government has failed to carry out what they were looking forward to—to use the machinery of the Treaty to provide work of a remunerative nature for those who are willing and anxious to work. When I decided with great reluctance to seek election to the third Dáil I said, "I am prepared to accept the Treaty as the best available means at the moment to work for the economic independence of this country." Since I have come into the Dáil I have taken part in the discussion of Bills innumerable, Bills turned out in machine-like fashion, but they had very little to do with the object I had in mind. I am in agreement with Deputy Murphy that if those of us who came into the Dáil to support the Government, or rather to criticise it when it deserves criticism, are to put up with what we have had to put up with, up to the present time, then we shall have to go back to the people who sent us here and tell them that our mission has been in vain.

I have put very pertinent questions to the President, acting for the Minister for Finance, as to what is in the back of the mind of the Minister for Finance or the Executive Council in arriving at this figure of £250,000 and in what way the remaining £200,000 is to be allocated. If it is on the basis of a certain amount for a constituency. I quite concede that there are some districts where distress and unemployment are more severe than in others. I can quite understand, though I have not intimate knowledge of the circumstances, that in the congested areas the position may be more serious than it is in other areas. For the information of Deputy Figgis, I may say that I know, as a positive fact, that people in congested areas have gone in greater numbers to England in harvesting work than heretofore. I am stating that from a knowledge of the facts, and I can, if necessary, produce figures. I have seventeen or twenty years' knowledge of cross-Channel shipping companies and of the people who travel in this way, and where they come from.

I can only say that in the district I know where four went last year something like two have gone this year.

I disagree with Deputy Figgis for this reason, that in the areas these people come from the position is not so serious as in the homes of people who are obliged to find bread at home for their dependents. That is the point I want to make. If Deputy Figgis wants figures, I can produce them. I think the first work of the Government of this country, apart from the question of the desirability of this or that Bill or the urgency of this or that measure, is to find work for the unemployed and to relieve the distress that has developed in very acute form throughout the country. That would be the first work of any Government faced with the conditions that we are faced with to-day. I have practically worn myself out privately and in the Dáil drawing attention to the question of the Barrow drainage. I am one of a number of Deputies who are deeply interested in the promotion of this particular scheme. In the British House of Commons this question was actually argued out threadbare. The people who came along to create the Sinn Fein organisation said: "When we have an Irish Government of our own, sitting in our own country, with representatives of our own people making our own laws in our own way, those things which the British Government will not do, will be done." You have the opportunity now, and if you do not take advantage of the opportunity, particularly for the purpose of relieving the distress caused by unemployment, I cannot say what will happen in twelve months hence.

There has been a good deal of extravagance in the language used in dealing with this Estimate. I mentioned yesterday a considerable number of items which appear in the Estimates this year showing the considerable sums given to the relief of unemployment. I did not mention yesterday the sums of money that were likely to be set loose from the Road Fund, but in the counties which have had close attention paid to them—the counties of Donegal, Kerry, Mayo, Sligo, etc.—the sum involved from the Road Board would be £180,000. That would certainly be considerably in excess of anything that was paid last year. In addition, we have, within the last two years, an army and a police force drawing away between 20,000 and 30,000 persons who might otherwise be unemployed. Deputy Byrne mentioned about distress in Dublin. Are we responsible for the Marino housing scheme being held up? If the Marino housing scheme is held up for the next fortnight or three weeks is the cause of complaint against the Government? This question of unemployment is not a Government question, and cannot be solved by Governments. Who is making an attempt to get down to stable conditions? You cannot get stable conditions, or expect stable conditions, when such events as those pass without a moment's consideration from anybody. Stable conditions mean that value must be given for money. Business men complain that they are not getting it. An examination of our trade balances does not show that there is a very sound economic position here just at present. If there is not, there is only one way to get out of that, and that is to work hard. The Government during its existence has put at the disposal of the nation more money than any other country in Europe, Asia, America, or anywhere else, has put at the disposal of its people, in proportion to the amount of revenue they are getting. You are not going to work towards stability if you are going to borrow money for and spend money upon schemes or public activities for which there is no value received. People speak to us about productive schemes. We have always endeavoured to arrange for the distribution of public money so that there would be some real advantage from it. Taking this £250,000, with the addition of the money that to come into the Road Fund, it will mean that a sum of £2,000,000 will be devoted to providing employment.

Would the President say how much of that £2,000,000 has been sent to England for the purchase of machinery, which does not go to relieve unemployment here?

At the very outside there would be £50,000 spent on machinery—50 machines at £1,000 each, and they will not reach that figure. If that is going to be put up to me, I can ask: Why is not the Dublin shipbuilding yard working? We will not reach a solution of this question by conundrums of that kind.

Does the Minister propose to make an answer to that question?

I can just as well ask for an answer to that question, as Deputies opposite can say to me: "What are you going to do for unemployment? If you cannot solve it get out of that."

Hear, hear.

That is the answer to it. I can put the other question.

Can the worker in Dublin live under as cheap conditions as the worker across the Channel? Is the same amount of profiteering going on there? What is being done about it here?

The Deputy knows that in whatever proposals we have put up we have explained the difficulties of the case. We have asked for a real solution and we have not got it. We have asked for more than the Deputies.

Who are the Government?

I suppose we happen to be in that position at present. If Deputy Johnson were here to-morrow we could just ask the same question and get the same answer.

And shirk responsibility.

Certainly not. We accept responsibility to the fullest extent at all times. I have not examined the figures of the last Limerick election or compared them with those of the previous election. I am, however satisfied that if those who opposed us in the Limerick election had got our job here and were doing the work we are doing, you would not find them doing it any more satisfactorily. You might perhaps get a flash in the pan—great results for a short time, but with ultimate damnable results for the country. We have down here something like £7,000,000 for compensation which will have to be paid. You are not going to get people to lend money to a Government or a Parliament which shows extravagance in its administration. The sum of £250,000 is certainly that much more than what was down last year. The proposal to provide that particular sum came from the Government. We were not asked to put it in the Estimates. It cannot be looked upon as an item by itself. I put this to Deputies opposite: is it fair to ask the Government in its present position to subsidise housing, a most important service? Is it fair to the Government, or to the citizens of Dublin, that workers should be prevented from going on with the work at Marino?

Question put and agreed to.
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