Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 22 Feb 1928

Vol. 22 No. 2

PRIVATE DEPUTIES' BUSINESS. - ADJOURNMENT DEBATE—APPOINTMENT OF SUB-POSTMASTER.

PROINNSIAS O FATHAIGH

Tá daoini ann agus ceapann siad ná ceart cur sios ar aon cheist a bhaineas leis an nGaoluinn no leis an nGaeltacht ac amhain as Gaoluinn agus ná ceart aon scéal eile do phléidhe as Gaoluinn—aon scéal tábhachtach go háithríd. Ní duine de na daonigh sin mise. Ba mhaith liom go dtuigfeadh Rúnaidhe Pairliminte d'n Aire an rud atá agam le rádh agus, ar an abhar san, labharfad as Béarla.

I put a question to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs which consisted of four parts. I got answers to these four divisions of the question, but the only portion which was satisfactory was that which stated that the person selected as sub-postmaster for Dunfanaghy, Tirconaill, has not yet been finally confirmed in the post. In his reply, the Parliamentary Secretary stated that he was not aware whether or not the candidate, who was fully qualified in Irish, had, or had not, a knowledge of telegraphy. He asserted that the candidate who was qualified in Irish was not qualified in other respects. I should like to know from the Parliamentary Secretary what qualifications, exactly, are required for a sub-postmaster; who makes the appointment; with whom does the ratification lie—with the Parliamentary Secretary, or with the Secretary to the Post Office, or with the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs? One of the applicants for this post, who is fully qualified in Irish, is a trained national teacher who is no longer in the service of the Department of Education. I submit there are many sub-postmasters in Ireland who have not got the educational qualifications that this candidate possesses. One of the great things urged in favour of the person who was selected was that he had a knowledge of telegraphy. Therefore, in the opinion of the Parliamentary Secretary, a knowledge of telegraphy is of much greater importance in the Gaeltacht for a sub-postmaster than a knowledge of Irish. I submit that a knowledge of Irish should be essential in such circumstances and that it would be easier for an Irish speaker, who is a trained teacher, to learn telegraphy than for a person who has some slight knowledge of telegraphy to learn Irish. I submit that the Irish speaker should be given the preference. We are not told that the person who knows Irish well does not also know telegraphy.

There was reference made to the practice of the Post Office in these matters. Reference was made also to the White Paper. I suggest that it is neither economical nor efficient to appoint to a post office in the Gaeltacht a person who is to pay somebody else to do the work while he draws the salary. That does not make for efficiency or economy. Dunfanaghy is not the only instance of this anomaly. I would ask that when vacancies occur in such places as Belmullet, Blacksod, Dingle, Waterville and elsewhere, where the postmasters are ignorant of Irish, the alleged policy of the Post Office should be carried out and a knowledge of Irish required from those who are appointed to succeed them. The dates in connection with this Dunfanaghy appointment are rather significant. I believe, from what I know of local history, that the roots of the matter go back to 1925. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary understands what I mean by that. If he makes inquiries locally he will understand. The vacancy occurred towards the end of September or the beginning of October. I had a letter on the 28th October stating that, if at all possible, an Irish speaker would be appointed. the matter was adjourned time and again —I do not know why. The appointment was made within one week of the adjournment of the Dáil. Whether that was a coincidence or not I do not know.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

Previous to or after the adjournment?

Mr. FAHY

After. I could not get information from the Post Office on the day the House adjourned as to whether an appointment had been made or not in this case. The appointment was either made afterwards or the information would not be given to a Deputy of this House. On the 31st December, finding that a sub-postmaster without a knowledge of Irish had been appointed, the Parliamentary Secretary was written to. I will translate the reply, because I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary would not understand the Irish. The reply states:

Mr. Heffernan asks me to state that the person selected has not much knowledge of Irish,

I know that is true.

but that a condition of his appointment is that he will appoint an assistant with a good knowledge of Irish.

The appointment has not been yet ratified, and I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to state whether or not the services of that assistant have been secured. The point was raised here, in favour of the person appointed, that he was at one time in the service of the Post Office—not as an official but as an employee of the sub-postmaster. That provides him with no claim whatsoever, if the reply I got on a previous occasion from the same Department be accurate. There was, in a place called Nobber, an assistant who had been employed, not officially but by the sub-postmistress, for twelve years. That assistant acquired a fluent knowledge of Irish and a knowledge of telegraphy as well. The sub-postmistress died and the assistant applied for the post. The reply I got from the Post Office was that this Irish speaker, who had become thoroughly efficient and proficient in the work, had no claim whatsoever, as she had not been in the direct employment of the Post Office.

As regards the general attitude of the Post Office towards the Gaeltacht, I find that President Cosgrave, in his letter to the Gaeltacht Commission, states, in 1925:

The future of the Irish language depends largely on its continuing in an unbroken tradition in the homes.

In the same letter, which is reproduced in the introduction to the Commission's report, he says:

The language problem and the economic problem are in close relation to each other.

In Section 93 of the report, I find it stated:

It is the fact and not the sentiment which impresses the Irish-speaking population, for officials influence their lives in many respects.

If a person who does not know Irish is appointed to a post in Dunfanaghy, and to lucrative positions in other districts in which there are many Irish speakers, how are these people to believe that this Government is in carnest in respect of the recommendations which are contained in the Gaeltacht Report? "The work of administration," this Report states, "should be placed forthwith in the hands of competent Irish-speaking officials in Irish-speaking districts, if we wish to restore the position and the prestige of the native language." In the White Paper, to which the Parliamentary Secretary has referred, it is stated:

The present practice of the Post Office is to appoint to all posts in the Gaeltacht only persons with a competent knowledge of Irish where such persons are available.

That practice must be very recent, if it did not apply in Dunfanagy a few weeks ago. I should like to know from the Parliamentary Secretary what particular qualifications are required and in what respect the applicant who is a fluent Irish speaker was deficient; who makes such appointments; whether it would not be both cheaper and more efficient to appoint the well-educated Irish speaker and let her learn telegraphy, and let her appoint some assistant temporarily so that she might acquire a knowledge of telegraphy, than to put in some person with a knowledge of telegraphy but no Irish; and also whether it is simply a pious resolution or a lie that the present practice of the Post Office is to appoint to all posts in the Gaeltacht persons with a competent knowledge of Irish, where such persons are available. I submit such a person was available in Dunfanaghy, that it is hypocrisy to put that into a White Paper, and that if the rest of the White Paper on the Gaeltacht Report is as true as that paragraph, the sooner it is committed to the flames the better.

Mr. CASSIDY

In rising to support this protest with regard to the Dunfanaghy Post Office made by Deputy Fahy, I must say the facts caused me a considerable amount of surprise— surprise in regard to the attitude adopted by those in control of the Post Office Service in comparison to what it was some time ago. It may be alleged by Deputies on the Government benches, or by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Post Office, that no change has taken place in their attitude towards the Irish language. But I allege a very big change has taken place. I say this is not the first occasion on which the question of an appointment with regard to Dunfanaghy Post Office was discussed in this House. On the 3rd of April, 1925, Deputy Myles raised the question of the appointment of Mr. O'Duffy to the post office at Dunfanaghy. Apparently, Deputy Myles on that occasion objected to Mr. O'Duffy being appointed, and the then Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, Mr. J.J. Walsh, in reply to Deputy Myles, stated: "Mr. O'Duffy has a fluent knowledge of the Irish language, an essential qualification held by one other candidate to the position." This other candidate is not the man now appointed to the post office. I hold, in view of that statement of Mr. Walsh in the year 1925, that the attitude of the Post Office instead of having improved is in the opposite direction.

As far as this particular place is concerned, I hold it is absolutely essential that an Irish speaker should be appointed to the position of sub-postmaster. In the Dunfanaghy District Electoral Division there are 1,123 people. Out of that number, 359 are Irish speakers, a percentage of 32 of the total population. In the rural district of Dunfanaghy the total population is 13,290. Of these 11,579 are Irish speakers, a percentage of 87.1. I think that those figures prove that a sub-postmaster who has a knowledge of Irish should have been appointed. It appears that the statement has gone forth from the Parliamentary Secretary that the person appointed has liberty to appoint an Irish-speaking assistant. I would like to draw the attention of this House to Recommendation 30 of the Report of the Gaeltacht Commission, that where it is the duty of an officer to use Irish in the performance of his work his headquarters shall invariably communicate with him in Irish, and also his superior officers when so competent. It will be necessary for this man to conduct some of his business in Irish. He will not be able to do it. It means that his assistant will have to do it for him, and will have to translate the important communications which he gets from Dublin. If they carry that recommendation out it means they will have to communicate with Dunfanaghy Post Office in the Irish language. That means that the sub-postmaster you have appointed will not be able to understand the messages. Consequently he will have to call in the aid of an assistant, if he succeeds in getting an assistant, which, I understand, he has not done up to the present time.

In view of the publicity given to this matter as far as the people of Donegal are concerned, in view of the disgust expressed by the people of Donegal, and also in view of the fact that the Parliamentary Secretary for Posts and Telegraphs has stated that some people were in favour of the appointment and others against it, I want to know is it the idea of the Government that they should put these recommendations of the Gaeltacht Commission into operation or not? This particular appointment proves to me and to a large number of people in Donegal that the Government are altogether insincere in their attitude towards those recommendations. I would, therefore, appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs to look into this matter with a view to getting an Irish speaker for the office competent to deal with the people coming in and speaking in Irish, and competent to deal with communications from Dublin in Irish.

Mr. CARNEY

In this matter of the Dunfanaghy Post Office, it is alleged— I think there is some foundation for it —that it is not the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs who makes the appointments at all. On the last two occasions it appears that some outside influence was responsible for those appointments. As Deputy Fahy has stated, in this matter of appointments to post offices the recommendations of the Gaeltacht Commission appear to be so much eyewash. Of course these recommendations will be dealt with in proper course. Apart from the fact that 83 per cent. of the people are returned as Irish speakers in this district, those not recorded as Irish speakers are mostly bi-lingual. It is only in cases where they are not able to transact their business in Gaelic that they do so in English. It is the experience of everybody—it must have been apparent to the Minister for Fisheries when going around these districts of the Gaeltacht—that if you go into a shop or post office and stay there for half an-hour or so you will find people coming in who, in 80 per cent. of the cases, transact their business with the shopkeeper or postmaster in Gaelic. Even where these people are able to use a certain amount of English, they would much rather do their business in Gaelic, because they can do it more efficiently than in English.

Deputy Fahy has put up practically all the points in connection with the case that can be put up, but there is this other point, that if these recommendations of the Gaeltacht Commission are to be taken seriously it is a most remarkable start to make—in a district where 83 per cent. of the people are native Irish speakers, and where the remainder, not regarded as native speakers, are bi-lingual—to appoint somebody as postmaster to transact public business who has no knowledge of Gaelic. It would be easier to appoint someone with a knowledge of Gaelic and a good scholar into the bargain than to appoint an assistant to this man. There must be some little thing behind it other than what the Parliamentary Secretary has told us; that is, from the point of view of the qualifications required, because if the Parliamentary Secretary makes inquiries round the district of Dunfanaghy he will discover that there is a very widespread opinion as to who was responsible for the appointment, and that person was not the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs.

Mr. COONEY

I should like to ask: is it not a fact that the guiding principle in this appointment was the fact that the person who has been appointed can be relied upon to wear the "Poppy" on the next Armistice Day, while the man who was rejected could not?

PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTER for POSTS and TELEGRAPHS (Mr. Heffernan)

I think this matter has resolved itself into two questions—the general question of Government policy with regard to the appointment of sub-postmasters in the Gaeltacht, and the particular local question in regard to the appointment to Dunfanaghy sub-post office. I said in answer to Deputy Fahy's question that the policy of the Department is the policy laid down in the White Paper issued by the Executive Council in regard to the appointment of Post Office officials in the Irish-speaking districts. But the Deputy must understand, and the House, I am sure, will appreciate, that it is quite impossible for my Department to regard a knowledge of Irish as the only qualification. It is part of our policy that we should appoint an Irish-speaker in an Irish-speaking district. It is a policy that we have insistently and consistently carried out, and I am prepared to stand over the fact that we have consistently carried out that policy. But there are other requirements and qualifications, and some of those qualifications are essential. A knowledge of Irish alone cannot and will not be regarded by my Department, and by me as head of that Department, as the only qualification necessary. When I came to examine the applications for this position, I found that the only other candidate who had the essential qualification in Irish, was not, in my opinion, adequately qualified in other regards.

Mr. CASSIDY

Would the Parliamentary Secretary state in what regard?

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

Will the Deputy allow the Parliamentary Secretary to state it?

Mr. HEFFERNAN

There are many very obvious requirements and qualifications. There are the qualifications of education, intelligence, premises, financial stability, general character, and others.

Mr. COONEY

Loyalty to Empire.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

In my opinion, leaving aside the question of the knowledge of Irish, there was no question as to which of the candidates had the best qualifications. In my opinion, the candidate who has been appointed, with the reservation that he must get an Irish-speaking assistant, was far and away the best qualified candidate, apart from a knowledge of Irish. There is also a qualification which we must take into account—although it cannot be regarded as a definite claim for appointment—the qualification of post office experience. The particular candidate selected had extraordinary qualifications in regard to post office experience. He had 28 years' experience in the post office.

A DEPUTY

In what capacity?

Mr. HEFFERNAN

He was qualified as an expert telegraphist who had been accustomed to dealing with the public for 28 years, and for a long time in the Gaeltacht. In my opinion, the qualifications which this particular candidate had were such that they entitled him to be appointed, in view of the fact that the other candidate did not fulfil the requirements in regard to these qualifications. We heard a good deal of talk about the expressions of dissatisfaction which were made manifest. How were they made manifest? They were made manifest almost altogether by anonymous letters in the local papers, particularly in the "Derry Journal." By whom were they inspired? Perhaps the people around Dunfanaghy know best. But there was also a very strong manifestation of satisfaction in regard to the appointment of the candidate selected. I am sorry to say that the spirit behind this agitation which has been got up in regard to this particular appointment is not a spirit in favour of the Gaelic movement, but is really a spirit and a movement in favour of the candidate who was not appointed. As a proof of that, or as an indication of why that is so, I want to point out that on the occasion of the appointment which was made in 1924. When we did appoint an Irish speaker—and I might say that in making that appointment in 1924 the Post Office Department regarded a knowledge of Irish as a very important factor——

Mr. CASSIDY

Essential.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

And the main reason why the candidate then selected was selected was because of his knowledge of Irish. The candidate who was at that time rejected is the candidate now appointed. It was considered that, apart from a knowledge of Irish, he was the better qualified candidate, and he would have been appointed then were it not for the restrictions in regard to the knowledge of Irish. The candidate then appointed, mainly because of his thorough knowledge of Irish, did not prove a success, making it pretty clear that we must lay stress upon other qualifications besides that of a perfect knowledge of Irish. We learned from experience in that particular case that the candidate appointed was not a success because we did not lay the stress we ought to have laid upon the other requirements which a candidate must have.

We hear a great deal about the local dissatisfaction manifested. We all know that dissatisfaction is always manifested in regard to the appointment of sub-postmasters. I have never yet made an appointment in which dissatisfaction was not manifested. And in regard to the appointment made in 1924, when we appointed an Irish-speaking sub-postmaster, dissatisfaction was expressed. I have here a petition signed with hundreds of names, and the foremost is the signature of Mr. Ramsey, the husband of the candidate not selected this time. That petition was in opposition to the then appointed sub-postmaster, who was an Irish speaker. I shall read an extract from that particular petition:

"One of the applicants"—referring to the gentleman appointed—"has been connected with the present Dunfanaghy Post Office for the past 28 years and on several occasions during that period has been in charge of same, giving entire satisfaction to the Post Office authorities and also to the public."

That is an excerpt from the petition. That petition was sent in against the Irish-speaking sub-postmaster appointed in 1924, and it was signed at the head of the list by the husband of the candidate in regard to whom the agitation is now got up. I want to say finally——

Mr. FAHY

On a point of explanation, I want to say I did not know the name, the religion, or the politics of any canddate when I first wrote and asked for an Irish speaker to be appointed, and I have not since asked the religion or the politics of the candidates.

Mr. HEFFERNAN

I mentioned neither religion nor politics. With regard to dealing with the Irish-speaking public, we regard it as essential that in the Gaeltacht we must have in the sub-post offices officials capable of dealing with the Irish-speaking public in the Irish language, and we took the precaution in making this appointment of definitely stating that the appointed sub-postmaster should appoint a competent fully qualified Irish-speaking assistant. Unless the appointed candidate, within a reasonable time, secures the services of a fully-qualified Irish-speaking assistant he will not be retained in the post office.

The Dáil adjourned until 3 o'clock on Thursday, 23rd February, 1928.