Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Apr 1928

Vol. 23 No. 4

No. 14.—EXCISE.

Mr. BLYTHE

I move:—

(1) That on and after the 1st day of May, 1928, entertainments duty within the meaning of section 1 of the Finance (New Duties) Act, 1916, shall not be charged or levied on payments for admission to any entertainments as respects which it is proved to the satisfaction of the Revenue Commissioners that the entertainment consists solely of one or more horse races, and that the holding of the entertainment has been authorised either by the Turf Club or by the Irish National Hunt Steeplechase Committee.

(2) It is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

This is an exemption from the entertainment duty on horse-racing. I put it to Deputy de Valera that this tax would almost disappear. We got £21,000 in 1924-25 from this tax. We got £10,700 last year. We get some figure less than £10,700 this year. The Revenue Commissioners put it at £9,000, but regard that as a rather optimistic estimate. There is no doubt that an enormous number of race meetings will collapse if some aid is not given to them. I have been only twice at race meetings in my life, and I am not interested in race meetings at all. I am not inclined to give concessions merely for the purpose of sporting events, but everybody interested in horse-racing holds that, without racing, the horse-breeding industry will rapidly and seriously decline and a very serious loss will ensue. The horse-racing industry is an important one. In giving this concession to horse-racing we are supporting an important industry.

Mr. DE VALERA

I am giving expression to my own views only in this particular matter, but it seems to me that the Minister's arguments do not hold. It does not follow because there is a diminution from this tax that the diminution is due to the imposition of this tax at all. It would take a good deal of convincing before I would believe that the decline in horse-racing is due to this entertainment tax. I do not believe that this concession is going to help the horse-breeding industry in the slightest. We know that the people who can afford to pay £1 to enter an enclosure at a race meeting can afford to pay the extra tax. I think this resolution is wrong in principle. It is wrong that there should be a reduction or a remission of an exemption of this tax at the same time that you have an increase in the tax on sugar. I think that the two things in the one Budget are ridiculous and I, for one, am very much against this resolution.

Mr. FLINN

I am rather interested in this, but I have an open mind on it. I have made an attempt to get from those who hold the idea that horse breeding and everything else depend upon horse-racing some facts and figures which would enable me to form a judgment on the matter. People who are interested in racecourses come with a very hectic tale on this subject, but when I did ask them to give me some figures which would enable me to form a judgment on the matter. I was not able to get these figures from them. Between now and the time when we come to deal with this matter on the Report Stage I hope that some evidence will be made available for the Dáil.

Mr. DAVIN

I only want to ask the Minister one question. The Minister, as far as I can see, has been in consultation with the Turf Club people and with the people in connection with the rececourses who are to benefit by having this entertainment tax removed. Has the Minister received any assurance from these people which would lead him to believe that the removal of this tax will mean a reduction in the price of admission to the racecourses? I would wish to have an assurance on this point.

Mr. GEORGE WOLFE

There is no doubt at all that since the introduction of the betting tax racing has gone down tremendously in Ireland. A great many things have been pressing on racing. The different taxes involved in the Betting Act, for one thing, and the entertainment tax on those attending race-meetings are matters that affect very large numbers of the people. Racing is a matter itself that affects a very large numbers of people. It gives employment all over the country, both for racing purposes and for breeding and many other things. There is no doubt that since the tax has been introduced, the attendance at race-meetings has fallen off tremendously. A number of race-meetings have closed down entirely. There are only two race-meetings at present that are able to pay their way at all. This is a serious matter for the country. It is probable that if something is not done racing will come to a dead stop in the country. The result would be that thousands of people would be thrown out of employment. This exemption is a small matter; still it is something, and racing people will look upon it as some help. There are many other things that ought to be done to ease the pressure on racing and to help an industry which concerns such a very large number of people in this country and which gives employment to so many. This concession will be welcomed as a help. It will prevent the remainder of the race-meetings from being closed down altogether.

Dr. HENNESSY

My idea is that successful race-meetings are necessary for the success of a great industry like horse-breeding in Ireland, and anything that will interfere with the success of horse-breeding, whether it is the imposition of a tax on those attending the meeting or a tax on betting, will ultimately injure horse-breeding. For that reason, I think the Minister is acting wisely in remitting this tax.

Mr. LEMASS

I agree with Deputy de Valera that the decline in horse-racing is not solely due to the entertainment tax. One important factor has been the policy adopted by the racing executives of maintaining high charges of admission to the courses.

Representations have been made to me that if this matter were brought forward in the Dáil I should suggest to the Minister that the remission of this entertainment tax should only be on prices under 10/-, in order to induce the executives to reduce their charges of admission and facilitate those who are not able to pay the high charges that are made by the racecourse executives.

Mr. M. O'REILLY

I do not believe for one moment that this is going to do one bit of good to racing. I do not believe that the entertainments tax interfered a terrible lot. I am afraid the shortage of money was the first consideration.

Mr. BLYTHE

Exactly.

Mr. O'REILLY

The next thing is that Irish racing was assisted almost entirely by the Army of Occupation in this country. I believe sincerely that is the case. I believe that this concession is not going to have the slightest effect until such time as we are in a position to subsidise the consumer and there is plenty of employment. I think it is from the general body of the people that racing will have to look for support. The entertainments tax was not so high that it prevented people going to race meetings. Those who can afford it will go anyway, and those who cannot afford to go would not go even if you had only the entertainments tax as the admittance fee.

Mr. BENNETT

I do not think Deputies need be seriously afraid of the remission of this tax. It has diminished from £21,000 to £10,000. Within a year or so, if the tax were continued, not only would the revenue from it have vanished, but racing itself would have vanished in the country. This tax is not the sole cause of the decline in the attendance at race meetings. There are other contributory causes, and some of us had hopes that the Minister would adopt a more liberal attitude in removing some of the other things that tend to tell against the development of racing. On racing depends the development of the thoroughbred horse, and the development of the thoroughbred horse is a greater industry than many Deputies realise. The amount of employment given by racing and in the rearing of thoroughbreds and other horses is not infinitesimal, and I daresay in most constituencies there are numerous men engaged in the care of horses. If something is not done to help the revival of the small race meetings, a lot of extra people will be thrown out of work.

Some Deputy remarked that this was not a contributory cause, but that people had lost interest in racing, and one or two shillings meant nothing to them. Any Deputy who attended small meetings in Southern Ireland or near Dublin where there was no charge would know that a shilling or two shillings means quite, a lot to a poor person. This concession is only a little thing, and it is about one-tenth of what the racing people expect, but at least it is something.

Mr. DAVIN

I am going to insist on an answer to the question I put. I did not want to make a speech, and it is very unfair that a member of the Government Party should make a case against the Minister such as the last Deputy has done. I want to know will the removal of the tax be passed on the the people who in future may be expected in greater numbers on Irish rececourses?

Mr. BLYTHE

You cannot have that I believe in a great many cases it will be passed on, but in other cases it probably will not be passed on.

Mr. EVERETT

Racing has gone to the dogs.

Mr. CORRY

I would like to know would the Minister consider the application of this remission only to the small and not to the large meetings?

Mr. BLYTHE

We can consider that when the matter comes up again. An amendment can be put down.

Mr. MacENTEE

Will the Minister introduce the amendment?

Resolution agreed to.