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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Jun 1929

Vol. 30 No. 8

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 34—District Court.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £26,522 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1930, chun pé cuid de Thuarastail agus de Chostaisí na Cúirte Dúithche nách muirear ar an bPrímh-Chiste (Uimh 10 de 1924, Ailt 70 agus 76; Uimh. 27 de 1926, Ailt 49 agus 50 agus Uimh. 15 de 1928, Alt. 13).

That a sum not exceeding £26,522 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1930, for such of the Salaries and Expenses of the District Court as are not charged on the Central Fund (No. 10 of 1924, Secs. 70 and 76; No. 27 of 1926, Secs. 49 and 50; and No. 15 of 1928, Sec. 13).

This year we are asking for a sum of about £40,000 for the District Court service or almost £9,000 less than last year. The decreased provision is accounted for in the following way. The abolition of the office of Registar of District Court Clerks has resulted in the transfer of the functions of that office to the Department of Justice and it is considered that the salaries of the headquarters staff of the District Court Branch should properly be borne on the Vote for the Office of the Minister for Justice and not as last year on the Vote for the District Court. There will be no saving in the running expenses of the District Court Branch this year, but the fact that that item has been taken out of the District Court Vote naturally reduces the amount for which we have estimated in respect of that Vote. A substantial saving is, however, anticipated in the cost of Deputy District Justices. The provision under this head has been decreased by £3,600, which decrease has been made possible by the appointment of two permanent Assistant Justices which it is hoped will obviate the necessity of appointing Deputy Justices during the vacation period and during the illness of the permanent Justices as formerly. We do not expect, however, to save the whole sum of £3,600, for the salaries of the two Assistant Justices (£1,600) are not included in this Vote; but they will be a charge on the Central Fund. At the same time it will be seen that a very substantial saving is anticipated. The travelling expenses of the two Assistant Justices will, it is believed, be considerably lower than the expenses incurred by Deputies under the system which has heretofore obtained and in consequence we are budgeting for some £1,200 less under this head for the coming year; you will see that in item B, page 121. The provision for the travelling and subsistence allowances of the permanent Justices has also been substantially decreased by the sum of £1,000. The decreased provision is accounted for by the fact that the commuted allowances payable to Justices were revised last year and the increases in the allowances payable did not prove to be as high as had been anticipated.

Deputies will be interested to learn that although the jurisdiction of the District Court is far greater than the jurisdiction of the old Petty Sessions Court and the office business consequently much heavier, the cost of running the system has been reduced rather than increased apart from the fall in bonus. It will be observed that the total salaries of District Court clerks outside the Dublin Metropolitan area amount at present to £29,715, covering 155 District Court clerks, an average salary of about £4 a week per clerk. This is an inclusive figure, there being no separate cost of living bonus in these cases. The actual salaries of the individual clerks vary, of course, very much: there are one or two who have a net salary of from £7 to £8 a week after paying expenses (these are whole-time clerks serving half a dozen courts each or serving very important courts such as Limerick City), while at the other end of the scale there are clerks on a £1 a week serving small courts in remote country places who need not devote more than one day a week or even less to their duties. Under Section 62 of the Court Officers Act, 1926, there is power to establish as pensionable Civil Servants such of these clerks as are whole-time, but up to the present this has been done in only one case. Such other clerks as are clearly whole-time and are giving satisfaction will be established in due course.

It is pleasing to learn that there is a saving of some £9,000 and that the appointment of two assistant justices has resulted in a saving of some £2,000. I have heard complaints that criminal cases are crowding out the litigation of ordinary civilians in many cases and that the courts have been adjourned for very trivial reasons. From time to time people are brought in long distances and compelled to bring witnesses and then the case is adjourned to the next court. I wonder has the Minister heard anything of such complaints and will he have them looked into.

I heard them. I will not mention any county because I do not want to make specific charges against anyone without being absolutely certain that they were well grounded, but such complaints were made to me.

I would like more information arising out of what the Minister said in connection with District Court clerks. I think the position of these people is not at all satisfactory. It is uncertain. They were appointed as a result, I think, of the first Measure we passed here setting up these District Courts. They were appointed more or less haphazardly in no regular formal way. I think in the Courts of Justice Act, 1924, there was a section which set the position right and gave authority to the Minister for Finance to establish these clerks if and when he thought fit, and now the Minister says after five years only in one case has a District Court clerk been established and given a certificate, I take it, as a Civil Servant. I do not think that is a satisfactory position. I think some effort ought to be made to set up a regular scale of salary for them and if they are whole-time officers they ought to be established as such. Can the Minister give us any reason for the delay in dealing with the matter about which there is some complaint, I can tell the Minister, on the part of many of those clerks? It is five years now since the Courts of Justice Act was passed. At the rate of one in five years, I wonder when does he hope to have his hundred clerks or so dealt with.

As far as Deputy Fahy's point is concerned, of course criminal business must take precedence of civil business, but I do not know of any court in which criminal business takes up such a large amount of time that the civil business cannot be carried on. As far as the adjournment of civil cases is concerned no complaints have reached me. Assuming for a moment that it is a fact, I would have nothing to do with it. The justice is complete master of his own court. If the justice did adjourn a case unreasonably I have no control over him.

Deputy O'Connell made a point with regard to District Court clerks. A very great number of district clerks were appointed together. The old Petty Sessions clerks were all dismissed and new clerks were put into their places. Some of these were, and others were not, very suited to their positions and there had to be changes. For the future, as the Deputy knows, these appointments will be made by the Civil Service Commissioners. The old clerks were simply put in, as they had to be, very hurriedly. The whole-time men, when they have proved themselves satisfactory, will be put upon a permanent basis. We are anxious to have a long and continued trial to see if they are, in fact, satisfactory before they are established. An individual may be very good for a year or two and then go off. We want to see if they are satisfactory, but I anticipate that in the immediate future they will be put on a permanent basis.

Mr. O'Connell

What is the period of probation the Minister suggests as reasonable? Clearly it is a new principle to put a servant of this kind on three or four years' probationary period.

If they were recruited in the ordinary way, but there was a great rush. They were not recruited as ordinary civil servants are now recruited, but no injustice will be done. The ones that have made good will be put on a permanent basis.

Question put and agreed to.
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