Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Jul 1931

Vol. 39 No. 14

In Committee on Finance. - Vote 19—Tariff Commission.

Minister for Finance (Mr. Blythe)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £3,228 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1932, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Choimisiún na nDleacht (Uimh. 40 de 1926 agus Uimh. 31 de 1930).

That a sum not exceeding £3,228 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1932, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Tariff Commission (No. 40 of 1926 and No. 31 of 1930).

Mr. Lemass

The Tariff Commission Estimate shows a considerable increase over that of last year, the increase being probably due to the fact that in the interval a whole-time Tariff Commission has been appointed. The appointment of a whole-time Tariff Commission with this increase in its expenses does not, however, appear to have conferred any benefit upon the State. The reports on applications that have come before the Commission are not being produced at any quicker rate. In fact, a number of applications have been under consideration for a considerable time, and there does not appear to be any immediate prospect of a report being forthcoming. I think the Minister should inform us what is the position of these applications, what progress has been made, and when it is likely that the Tariff Commission will conclude its labours upon them. There are a number of fairly important applications pending. We do not want to have repeated in respect of these applications the same delay and the same disastrous consequences as attended previous applications already reported on like the application of the coachbuilders and others.

We have, in the past, repeatedly expressed our opinion that the State would be in a much better position without this Tariff Commission. We must decline to vote anything for its upkeep, and we think that if the money were put to the assistance of industries which are wasting their time and their funds formulating their cases to be submitted to this body, the money would be much more usefully expended. We think also that the Minister might explain what is the reason for the extraordinary delay that has taken place concerning the publication of the report of the Grain Tribunal. Has the fact that the members of the Grain Tribunal have also duties as members of the Tariff Commission anything to do with the delay in the production of the Report? It was a matter for hilarity here before when I put a question to the President concerning it. He seemed to consider it a great joke for anyone to be concerned about the Report of that Tribunal.

The President

Not at all.

Mr. Lemass

Apparently he has not quite calmed down yet.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

What has that to do with this Vote?

Mr. Lemass

The members of that Tribunal were also members of the Tariff Commission.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not think that even brings it under this Vote.

Mr. Lemass

It does to this extent, that portion of their time is occupied with the work of the Tariff Commission, and that means that the report of the Tribunal is delayed. The report was promised in 1930, and it has not yet appeared. I think that the unusual delay is worthy of comment. Of course it is nothing to the delay on the part of the Tariff Commission. There were applications made to them in 1926 or thereabouts, and they were not reported upon for four years. Is there any possibility that the cases now before the Tariff Commission will be reported on within four or even five years? Has the whole-time Tariff Commission inherited the bad habits of its predecessors? I suppose the members are at present visiting factories in England or on the Continent, examining conditions there, so that they will be able to lecture us on our inefficiency when they return. The taxpayers' money should not be spent providing them with amusement, and therefore we will vote against this proposal.

Mr. Moore

I understand the Tariff Commission has completed the hearing of evidence on the application for a tariff on certain qualities of leather. A great many people are interested in that inquiry and are looking forward to a favourable report. Since the Minister has no proposal to make, notwithstanding that it was expected the Dáil would adjourn this week, it would seem that the report is unfavourable to the applicants. Perhaps the Minister will announce whether the report has been received and whether it is unfavourable; further, whether the Government have decided to accept an unfavourable report on the application?

[An Ceann Comhairle resumed the Chair.]

Mr. Blythe

The inquiry to which Deputy Moore referred has, I think, been practically, if not entirely, completed by the Tariff Commission. I hope that we will have a report very soon. The Grain Tribunal Report which has been referred to is also practically completed and I think the report will be available at a very early date indeed. I do not know that there is any other report likely to be available very soon, but the Tariff Commission have the other matters that are before them actually in hands and they are dealing with them as rapidly as they can be dealt with. Whether it is a whole-time or a part-time Tariff Commission, it is impossible to deal with the various applications as quickly as Deputy Lemass would seem to expect. If the Commission is to give the service it ought to give and acquire the information it ought to acquire, there must be a considerable lapse of time. There certainly has to be an interval both for the applicants and opponents and it is absolutely necessary that the Commission should visit factories and observe the various processes of industries. It would be impossible for the members of the Tariff Commission to appreciate the value of evidence if these inquiries were not to take place. It would be impossible satisfactorily to hear a process described which they had not seen, or to have evidence given about qualities of goods which were not actually before them. I know Deputy Lemass does not like the Commission and I think the only thing that would cause him to like it would be if the Commission only pretended to examine things and did not really do so. They will not do that.

Mr. Lemass

As regards the application in regard to insole leather, has the report been submitted to the Government or do they expect to receive it before the adjournment of the Dáil?

Mr. Blythe

I am not in a position to say.

Mr. Lemass

Does the Minister not realise the importance to the applicants of having that report considered by the Executive Council and acted upon, if it should be favourable, before the adjournment? Otherwise the matter will be in suspense for a very long period. The protection which the applicants desire and which may be recommended could not be imposed until later in the year if the report is not now submitted. In view of the fact that an early adjournment is anticipated, will the Minister get in touch with the Commission so as to get the report in time to enable action to be taken on it, say next week?

Mr. Blythe

We have in view everything the Deputy stated. The Tariff Commission know about it, the Executive Council know about it, and it really a question whether the examination can or cannot be completed.

Question put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 67; Níl, 43.

Tá

• Anthony, Richard.
• Beckett, James Walter.
• Blythe, Ernest.
• Bourke, Séamus A.
• Broderick, Henry.
• Brodrick, Seán.
• Byrne, John Joseph.
• Carey, Edmund.
• Cassidy, Archie J.
• Collins-O'Driscoll, Mrs. Margt.
• Conlon, Martin.
• Connolly, Michael P.
• Cosgrave, William T.
• Craig, Sir James.
• Daly, John.
• Davin, William.
• Davis, Michael.
• Doherty, Eugene.
• Dolan, James N.
• Doyle, Edward.
• Doyle, Peadar Seán.
• Duggan, Edmund John.
• Dwyer, James.
• Egan, Barry M.
• Everett, James.
• Finlay, Thomas A.
• Fitzgerald, Desmond.
• Fitzgerald-Kenney, James.
• Gorey, Denis J.
• Haslett, Alexander.
• Hassett, John J.
• Heffernan, Michael R.
• Hennessy, Michael Joseph.
• Hennessy, Thomas.
• Hennigan, John.
• Henry, Mark.
• Hogan, Patrick (Galway).
• Holohan, Richard.
• Kelly, Patrick Michael.
• Keogh, Myles.
• Lynch, Finian.
• Mathews, Arthur Patrick.
• McDonogh, Martin.
• McFadden, Michael Og.
• McGilligan, Patrick.
• Mongan, Joseph W.
• Mulcahy, Richard.
• Murphy, James E.
• Nally, Martin Michael.
• Nolan, John Thomas.
• O'Connell, Thomas J.
• O'Connor, Bartholomew.
• O'Hanlon, John F.
• O'Higgins, Thomas.
• O'Leary, Daniel.
• O'Mahony, The.
• O'Sullivan, Gearóid.
• O'Sullivan, John Marcus.
• Reynolds, Patrick.
• Rice, Vincent.
• Roddy, Martin.
• Sheehy, Timothy (West Cork).
• Thrift, William Edward.
• Tierney, Michael.
• White, Vincent Joseph.
• Wolfe, George.
• Wolfe, Jasper Travers.

Níl

• Aiken, Frank.
• Blaney, Neal.
• Bourke, Daniel.
• Briscoe, Robert.
• Buckley, Daniel.
• Carty, Frank.
• Colbert, James.
• Corkery, Dan.
• Crowley, Fred. Hugh.
• Crowley, Tadhg.
• Derrig, Thomas.
• De Valera, Eamon.
• Fahy, Frank.
• Flinn, Hugo.
• Fogarty, Andrew.
• Geoghegan, James.
• Gorry, Patrick J.
• Goulding, John.
• Harris, Thomas.
• Hayes, Seán.
• Houlihan, Patrick.
• Jordan, Stephen.
• Boland, Gerald.
• Boland, Patrick.
• Kennedy, Michael Joseph.
• Kent, William R.
• Kilroy, Michael.
• Lemass, Seán F.
• Little, Patrick John.
• Maguire, Ben.
• MacEntee, Seán.
• Moore, Séamus.
• O'Kelly, Seán T.
• O'Reilly, Matthew.
• O'Reilly, Thomas.
• Ruttledge, Patrick J.
• Ryan, James.
• Sexton, Martin.
• Sheehy, Timothy (Tipp.).
• Smith, Patrick.
• Tubridy, John.
• Walsh, Richard.
• Ward, Francis C.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Duggan and P.S. Doyle; Níl, Deputies G. Boland and Briscoe.

Question declared carried.