Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 8 Apr 1937

Vol. 66 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Vote 19—Tariff Commission.

Mr. Derrig

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £3,532 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1938, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Choimisiún na nDleacht (Uimh. 40 de 1926 agus Uimh. 31 de 1930), agus Choimisiún na Marcanna Earraí Ceannaíochta (Uimh. 48 de 1931).

That a sum not exceeding £3,532 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1938, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Tariff Commission (No. 40 of 1926 and No. 31 of 1930), and of the Merchandise Marks Commission (No. 48 of 1931).

Mr. Flinn

Provision for 1937-38 is £5,332, which shows an increase of £65 —a casual one due to increased provision for bonus. The Vote for the Tariff Commission scarcely needs any introduction from me. As Deputies are aware, the commission consists of three members whose duties are to consider and report to the Executive Council on matters relating to the imposition, abolition, or renewal or modification of a tariff. The members of the commission perform other functions as well. They act on the Fruit and Vegetables Tribunal, for which provision is made in Vote 9. The chairman of the commission also acts as chairman of the Dairy Disposals Company, Ltd., so that the Dáil can rest assured that, although not fully occupied on Tariff Commission work, they are fully engaged on public service.

Mr. Costello

From what the Parliamentary Secretary has said, I gather that the Tariff Commission is engaged on everything except investigating tariffs. Would that be a correct description of the Tariff Commission?

Mr. Flinn

It would not be correct to say that it is engaged on investigating everything.

Mr. Costello

All sorts of odds and ends?

Mr. Flinn

It is certainly not engaged at the present moment in investigating any tariff matters.

Mr. Costello

Have they been engaged on any tariff matter at all in the past year?

Mr. Flinn

No.

Mr. Fitzgerald

If the Parliamentary Secretary will read over the statement he has just made, he will see that his statement was, to say the least, rather disingenuous. In the statement which he has just read he talks about other matters as well as tariff matters, and I think that, in that regard, the statement was definitely misleading to the House. I do not say that it was intentionally misleading, but the effect of it was to mislead the House. If he reads his statement, he will see that they are not engaged on tariff matter and I think it is a fact, and was so admitted by the Public Accounts Committee, of which I was a member, that they deal with no tariff matter whatever. In view of what I have said, I think the Parliamentary Secretary will find that what he said in his statement did not reflect fact. In view of the fact that for some years this body, that has been engaged in inquiring into all sorts of odds and ends, has had nothing to do with tariffs, I think ordinary parliamentary practice would require that that body should cease to be known here as a tariff commission, meaning a body having something to do with tariffs. I think its name should have been changed and some other name given to it indicating the other odds and ends with which it deals. I think that if the Parliamentary Secretary reads over what he has just read, he will admit that that was a statement calculated to mislead the Dáil.

Mr. Flinn

I am quite sure the Deputy does not imagine that I would make a statement of that kind intending to deceive the Dáil, nor, when I reread the statement to the Deputy, will he contend for a single moment that I did. I said "the members of the commission perform other functions as well"—not as a commission in their individual capacity.

Mr. Fitzgerald

As well?

Mr. Flinn

Yes—the members. If the phrase had been that the commission performs other functions as well, then I certainly would have been deceiving the House.

Mr. Fitzgerald

I think the Parliamentary Secretary will agree that if I say that a body, or members of a body, deal with certain matters as well as something else, it clearly means that they deal with that something else, although they deal with other matters as well. Inasmuch as it is admitted that they do not deal with tariffs, I repeat that to say that the commission or members of the commission deal with other matters as well is definitely misleading.

Mr. Costello

In view of the last statement made by the Parliamentary Secretary, there is one question I should like to ask. He has stated that members of the commission, in their individual capacities, deal with other matters—matters including anything and everything except tariffs. The authority that is given by this Dáil, when the money is voted, is to the Tariff Commission. What authority is there to devote that money to purposes performed by individual members of the commission in a different capacity? Surely, the Parliamentary Secretary is misappropriating public moneys when he applies moneys, voted by the Dáil for a Tariff Commission, to vegetables and things of that description?

Mr. Flinn

No. I think the actual position is this: This Commission has been set up in a proper manner. It consists of certain members who are receiving certain salaries, and until that commission is abolished they are entitled to those salaries.

Mr. Costello

Oh, yes!

Mr. Flinn

No further moneys are provided—I mean, as far as that money is concerned—and if those gentlemen, during the period in which they are drawing salaries as members of the commission which is not functioning, use their very excellent energies for other activities of the State, I think that, so far from being misappropriation, it is a very salutary and creditable saving.

Mr. Costello

What becomes of the reports they bring in, in their individual capacities?

Mr. Flinn

In their individual capacities, they report on fruit and vegetables.

Mr. Costello

What becomes of the reports that these very excellent gentlemen, who are in retirement on vegetable matter, bring in from time to time?

Mr. Flinn

If they make a report, they report to the Executive Council.

Mr. Costello

Did they make any report last year, on anything?

Mr. Flinn

They spent their time in the process of investigating certain things like the marketing of fruit and vegetables, and they will eventually make a report. I understand they are coming very close to the end of their investigation.

Mr. Fitzgerald

We have here a tribunal of inquiry into the marketing of fruit and vegetables and we have a Vote for that. We have also, presumably, a Vote for the Tariff Commission. If these men are actually the tribunal inquiring into the marketing of fruit and vegetables, I do not see why there should be a double Vote.

Mr. Flinn

We have already passed a Vote which covers the expenses of the Fruit and Vegetables Tribunal. The expenses of the Fruit and Vegetables Tribunal are borne out of the Vote for Commissions and Special Inquiries which the Deputy and myself co-operated in passing a few moments ago.

Mr. Fitzgerald

In view of the fact that we have voted a sum of money for the payment of the expenses of the inquiry into fruit and vegetables, and as it seems that the Tariff Commission does nothing except to inquire into the marketing of fruit and vegetables, we ought not to be asked to pay for the Tariff Commission at all.

Mr. Flinn

I am afraid that the longer we argue about it the further we shall get away from agreement on the matter.

Vote put and agreed to.