asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will consider the advisability of arranging with the Minister for Finance that in future all licences for the export of live pigs will be issued by customs officials on presentation of consignment note by any individual shipping pigs.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Export of Live Pigs.
I am not prepared to alter the present system of distribution of licences for the export of live pigs under which licences are issued to shippers who were engaged in this trade last year.
asked the Minister for Agriculture whether he is aware that southern pig curers will not, or cannot, handle any appreciable percentage of the pigs on offer, and that the Pigs and Bacon Export Committee will not issue sufficient export licences to the legitimate exporters who are willing to ease the situation, and if he will state what action he proposes to take to prevent the producers being further discouraged by these circumstances.
I am aware that some southern curers are refusing to accept heavy pigs but the Pigs and Bacon Commission are meeting the situation by purchasing such pigs from producers for export.
As regards the issue of export licences, I am satisfied that a sufficient number of licences is being issued. During last month a considerable number of the licences issued were not used.
I was not talking about last month, but about the present month. There is a large amount of pigs at Waterford and in other seaport towns; is the Minister not aware that men have applied for licences and cannot get them? Is he not also aware that the top price for pigs weighing nine score, in the British market, is 18/6 per score and that there has been a cut of 6d. a score on every 10 lbs. extra? Is he aware that, with the cost of foodstuffs at present, pigs are "white elephants." Deputies may laugh at that, but they are not in the business, while I am. The cost of foodstuffs is killing the pig industry altogether. I am not asking the Minister to do any extreme thing; I only want what is fair to the country. If you want to increase pig production, you will have to help the pig feeder.
Has the Deputy any question to ask?
I have many questions to ask him, if I am allowed to do so. With your permission, I will ask another. I know one pig producer in Waterford alone who has 100 pigs and who cannot get a licence to ship them. Is not that correct?
I would like to remind the Deputy that the Pigs and Bacon Commission are purchasing such pigs for export or, rather, that they are exporting any pigs offered to them as agents for the owners.
When did that take place?
For the last two weeks or so.
Is the Minister aware that as a result of the recent order of the Pigs and Bacon Export Committee there is some confusion regarding this matter which affects the producers of pigs in Cork County and particularly in West Cork?
Mr. Brennan
Would the Minister say if there is any restriction at this side on the export of live pigs?
They must have licences.
Mr. Brennan
I agree, but, apparently, licences are not granted. There is a general complaint all over the country that people cannot get licences and cannot sell pigs.
Such things arise from time to time, but, if you take it month after month, you will find that the number of licences unused is very large; in fact, it is about 50 per cent. of the total issued.
It is the present time we are talking about.
Mr. Brennan
Is the Minister satisfied that at the present time heavy pigs cannot be got rid of in this country for want of licences?
Anybody who wishes to export pigs can do so through the Pigs Commission. There is no such thing now as one person doing better than another, as the Pigs Commission will get exactly the same price as anybody else and will export as agents for the owners, so that the owner gets the full value.
Mr. Brennan
When and why has that regulation been made? Why has the exporting been taken out of the hands of the exporters?
Because the exporters are not taking the pigs; the licences are coming back again.
Do we understand from the Minister that for some months, while people had been trying to get licences, there has been a super-abundance of licences lying in the Minister's office?
No. In the month of February, 9,347 licences were issued and to date only 4,343 had been used.
Are we to understand that some people who wanted licences have not been able to get them and that other people can get more licences than they are able to use?
The licences were issued exactly on the performance of these people last year, and there cannot be a fairer basis than that. They were issued in that way, yet half of them are coming back.
Mr. Brennan
Is the Minister stating that no persons got licences except those who exported last year? Is the Minister standing over that statement?
I do not know if I can stand over that exactly.
Mr. Brennan
I am sure the Minister cannot.
I am certain, however, that every person who exported pigs last year got a licence this year in proportion to last year's export.
Mr. Brennan
My information was that persons who did not export last year were able to get hundreds of licences, but people in the business were unable to get any.
That is absolutely untrue. I defy anybody in the business to say that he did not get a licence. There are cases—such as that mentioned by Deputy Keating—where people may have had pigs but did not get licences, but there are also cases where people got them and did not use them.
Mr. Brennan
Is the Minister aware that people got licences who never bought a pig in their lives?
Is the Minister aware that suitable pigs are worth 7/- per cwt. more now live weight for the home market than they are for export, and that bacon curers are not killing pigs in the southern markets at present?
Mr. Broderick
How is it that sufficient licences are given to those working the machinery which the Minister has set up for exporting pigs, while people in the business cannot get licences?
The people in the business got licences and sent back half of them.
Mr. Broderick
They did, in previous months, when trade was bad, but the Minister has now set up other machinery outside the business and is denying licences to others.
I would ask Deputies to consider this: if we find that, by giving licences to the people in the trade people cannot get rid of pigs as they have done in the past, then we will take the pigs from any producer.
Have you an agent on the other side to look after our interests?