asked the Minister for Defence if he is prepared to offer for sale a number of lorries that will not now be required for the Defence Services as many grain merchants are badly in need of them because of the excessive wear during the emergency when replacement of spare parts could not be secured for lorries owned by them; and, if so, if he will arrange that the sales be held at different centres so that travel inconvenience will not be caused to intending purchasers.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Sale of Army Lorries.
In the public interest, it has been decided to give Córas Iompair Éireann the option of purchasing lorries which are at present surplus to Army requirements and which would be suitable for the company's purpose. The lorries which may not be found suitable to the requirements of the company will be sold singly by public auction. In such an event, the Deputy's representations regarding sales at different centres will be borne in mind.
Are we to understand from the Minister's reply that only lorries rejected by Córas Iompair Éireann will be offered to the public by public auction?
Only the lorries which Córas Iompair Éireann do not regard as being suitable for their purpose.
In other words, lorries rejected by the company?
Lorries not suitable for their requirements.
Will the Minister say on what terms the lorries are to be offered to Córas Iompair Éireann?
They are to be valued by three expert valuers, who will put a price on them. If Córas Iompair Éireann decide that they are worth the money asked, they will probably purchase them; if not they will not accept them. They will purchase only lorries which will be suitable for the purposes of the company.
Will the Minister state what is the objection to having all the lorries sold by public auction and letting Córas Iompair Éireann buy them in competition with other purchasers, in view of the fact that they are State property and that the State is entitled to get the market value of them?
Is it not a revolutionary departure from all finance practice to dispose of Government property without tenders or public auction? If that is to be taken as a precedent for other Departments, will the Minister allow the Minister for Finance to examine the question with a view to the possible implications of it? Has the Committee of Public Accounts any thing to say to it?
This is a national transport organisation for which the Government must see that proper facilities are provided. Lorries are difficult to secure at the present moment. The Deputy was talking a few minutes ago about sufficient provision not being made. This will help to supply whatever deficiency there is at the moment. As I said a few minutes ago, the price will be fixed by expert valuers; they will put on the lorries the price which they deem the vehicles are worth. If the company does not purchase them at that price, then they will go to auction.
May I repeat my question to the Minister? What is the objection to having all the lorries offered in the first place by public auction, and letting Córas Iompair Éireann, in competition with other citizens, purchase them if they so desire?
I have nothing to add to the information already given.
Would the Minister be prepared to give the grain merchants the option of buying some of the lorries? They are the men who really deal with the farmers of the country. Having gone through the emergency and gone to the expense of growing wheat, very often the grain is left in the farmers' haggards. Where there are grain merchants in the area, would not the Minister consider it only reasonable that they should get the option, as well as Córas Iompair Éireann, of selecting some of the lorries?
Has the Minister for Defence consulted the Minister for Finance in regard to this transaction? Is the Minister for Defence aware that there are Department of Finance regulations in existence definitely prohibiting the course of conduct he describes to the House? Will the Minister at least consult the Minister for Finance before this departure is embarked upon, because, so far as I am aware, the Committee of Public Accounts will report the matter to the House, and the Comptroller and Auditor-General will strenuously object to the procedure envisaged? It is a complete departure from Finance practice.
I do not think so.
Will the Minister consult the Department of Finance?
I can do that.
I strongly advise the Minister to do so.
Will the Minister say by whom the decision was taken?
By me, in the first instance.
What does the Minister mean by "in the first instance"?
The instance before the second one.
Is this a Government decision, or is it a decision by the Minister for Defence?
It is.
It is what?
It is a Government decision, agreed to on my recommendation.
Including the Minister for Finance?
Including the Government.
Well, if so, it is a complete revolution since 12 months ago.
I do not think so.
Absolutely.