Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 30 Apr 1946

Vol. 100 No. 16

Tourist Traffic (Amendment) Bill, 1946, Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. The House, I think, is aware that the Tourist Traffic Act, 1939, which established the Irish Tourist Board provided for the making of a total advance from the Exchequer to the Tourist Board to a limit of £600,000. That Act conferred certain powers on the board, and gave it certain duties and functions to perform. The duties of the board, as set out, included the establishment, equipment and operation of hotels, guest houses, hostels and camps; the giving of financial assistance in the provision of services and facilities calculated to improve holiday traffic in the country; the undertaking of publicity, including guide books and similar publications, in connection with the development of holiday traffic; the provision of schemes for training persons in hotel work and other special services, as well as the maintenance of registers of hotels and guest houses, and the laying down of standards for admission to these registers.

Owing to the war the activities of the board were curtailed. The House will remember that the Act was passed in 1939, and did not, in fact, come into effective operation until after the war had started. The Government then decided to direct the board to curtail its activities, because of the circumstances created by the war. During the earlier war years the board was, in fact, confined to the preparation of plans of one kind or another, plans for the organisation of its work, as well as plans for the development of holiday resorts, and it kept to that work of planning until 1944, when the Government was of opinion that the end of the war was in sight, and directed the board to extend the scope of its activities. During these planning years the board prepared schemes for the development of a number of holiday resorts, and for the development of holiday business generally. These schemes were subsequently submitted to me by the board for approval. Although some action has been taken upon the approved schemes, it has not yet been found possible by the board to complete its plans, owing to the abnormal supply position still existing.

In 1944, part of the Act dealing with the registration of hotels was brought into force, and during that year and 1945, the board was engaged in the establishment of the hotel registers, and the inspection of hotels and guest houses, with a view to their admission to them. These matters, to which I am now referring, were dealt with in the White Paper circulated to Deputies. I assume that Deputies have read the White Paper, and that it is not necessary to repeat, in introducing this Bill, matters which are contained therein. The White Paper gave not merely the general historical background to which I have referred, but referred also to various resort development schemes which the board prepared and which have been sanctioned. The primary purpose of this short Bill is to raise the limit fixed in the original Act of the amount of advances which can be made to the Tourist Board. As it happened, the schemes already sanctioned will, it is estimated, cost slightly more than the £600,000 provided under the original Act. It is considered desirable, therefore, at this stage, that the Dáil should be so informed and asked to raise that limit. That step might have been delayed.

Although schemes which will, ultimately, cost more than £600,000 have been sanctioned, the total amount advanced to the board is only £122,000. This Bill proposes that the limit to advances to the board under the Act of 1939 should be raised to £1,250,000. The purpose of the amendment is to enable schemes which have been already approved to be completed, and further schemes undertaken. The House, I think, is aware that there is no element of subsidy in respect to that part of the board's work. Before an advance can be made for resort development work, it is necessary for the board to certify that a scheme submitted by it and approved is of a profit-earning character. I know that there has been a suggestion that the board had avoided to an undue and unreasonable extent publicity in connection with these resort development schemes. I am sure, however, that the House will appreciate the difficulties of the board in giving any detailed publicity to its plans, because of the nature of the work on which it is engaged. The avoidance of publicity was due to the fact that, in the main, the resort development schemes of the board involved the acquisition of property.

It is true that the board were given, under the Act of 1939, certain powers of compulsory acquisition, but these powers were of a cumbersome kind, and ordinarily the board would desire to purchase property by negotiation rather than resort to compulsory powers. On that account it has been anxious to avoid publication of details of its plans, so as not to shove up the cost of property which it would acquire against itself and to facilitate the voluntary acquisition of such property at a reasonable price. The profit-earning character of these schemes very largely depends on the enhancement of the value of the property acquired by the board as a result of the development work done by the board and clearly the ability of the board to bring any of these schemes to a profit-earning stage would be impaired if it had to pay unduly inflated prices for the property acquired by it before the development work was undertaken.

I will deal later with the details of the various schemes which have been approved and give the Dáil the available information concerning them; but before getting on to those matters of detail I am anxious to express certain views upon the general work of the board and the policy by which that work is directed. In discussing the merits of the plans of the Tourist Board for the development of the holiday business, or the particular schemes which it has devised for the improvement of holiday resort facilities, it is necessary to keep in mind the main purposes of the board's work. The primary aim of the board is to develop and improve the natural amenities in this country available to the Irish people, so that Irish people may have full opportunity of satisfactory and enjoyable holidays in this country. The board has also the purpose of developing the potentialities of the business of selling holiday facilities to persons coming from other countries.

On occasions during the past year or so, on reading comments in the Press on the work of the Tourist Board, I have felt that it was a mistake to have given it that name in the first instance. People have come to interpret the name of the board as implying that its main, if not the sole, attention was to the work of selling holiday facilities to persons coming from other countries. That is neither the sole purpose of the board nor its primary purpose. I have said that its primary purpose is to develop the holiday facilities available in this country for the enjoyment of our people. That I would regard, and always did regard, as the more important aspect of the board's work. The board is engaged in a business undertaking. I have sometimes felt that the nature of the work upon which it is engaged and proposes to engage in future has been misunderstood. It is necessary to emphasise in the clearest possible way that the main purpose for which the board was set up is to organise on a better basis in this country a business which has become one of major economic importance in every country. The economic importance of the holiday business has grown with the improvement of travel facilities and with the alterations in general social conditions and in conditions affecting the employment of workers. In all countries in the world it is becoming an enterprise of major economic significance.

There are some people who have got a superiority complex about this business of providing holiday facilities. They regard it as a type of occupation which is unsuitable, as one which involves menial work. That is a completely false conception of the business. Not merely is it one of major economic importance, but it provides the possibility of remunerative and suitable employment for a very large number of persons. I certainly do not agree that there is any personal humiliation to be experienced in the sale of holiday facilities which would not apply in the sale of other commodities. Apart altogether, then, from the possibility of attracting business from outside the country, and assuming the sole effect of the board's business is to improve the holiday facilities available here, it is one which should be undertaken and one which, because of its nature, requires some central directing organisation if it is to be done properly.

The development of hotel facilities, restaurant facilities and, to some extent, recreation facilities, might be left to private individual enterprise. It is through private enterprise that the facilities now available were first provided. The development of holiday resorts might, perhaps, be left to the local authorities of the areas in which they are located; but I think it will be agreed that, without some central planning and directing authority, the efforts of private enterprise and of local authorities would not be co-ordinated, nor would the best results be secured. It is for that reason that the Government decided that the Irish Tourist Board should be established, with certain powers and resources to enable it to do its work. I do not want any misunderstanding to be created by my remarks as to the importance of the business of selling holiday facilities to persons from abroad. That is an export business which has become of major importance in many countries and which may become one of great importance to this country. The business of selling holiday facilities to citizens of other countries has immense potentialities for us and has potentialities now, because of circumstances existing elsewhere, greater than ever it had before, provided we are in a position to use them. We can add substantially to the national wealth, and particularly to the balancing of our international trade, by the development of the business; and although it may not be possible to do so in the immediate future to the extent that might ultimately be possible, we should not leave out of our minds the economic importance of the business in the future of the country.

I said that the extent to which the business of selling holiday facilities to persons from other countries can be developed in the immediate future is limited. It is limited by reason of the inadequacy of our existing hotel accommodation and the curtailment of travelling facilities in present circumstances. I know, from articles which have appeared in the newspapers, that some people feel there is objection to the attraction of tourists to this country in the present year, because of the continuing scarcity of some commodities. I would like to make it clear that the Tourist Board is not taking any positive steps to attract business from outside this year. At a recent meeting, under the auspices of the Tourist Association, I expressed the view that it would be bad for the ultimate development of the tourist business here if an unduly large number of visitors were to come now, before plans for the development of resorts and hotel accommodation could be put into operation. On the whole, I think we should limit any publicity or other work abroad designed to bring tourists here until we are satisfied that we are ready to deal with any business that might result.

At the same time, I want to make it clear that the argument against allowing visitors to come to this country in this year, based on the supply situation, is not very strong. In so far as certain foodstuffs are rationed—tea, sugar and butter—the supplies which any hotel may receive are restricted, and will not be increased because of increased business secured by that hotel. The other foodstuffs, such as meat and eggs, are not rationed here, and there is, in respect of these other foodstuffs, a substantial export business. It seems to me that it is obviously a much better policy to sell meat and eggs in the form of cooked meals to people coming here from abroad than to export them raw. I do not think that we need at the moment unduly concern ourselves about that aspect of the matter, because the number of tourists that can come here in this year from outside will be restricted in any event by curtailed travel facilities and will be doubly restricted by reason of the inadequacy of the hotel accommodation available to them. At the same time, as I have already said, we should keep in mind that there are special circumstances existing in the world at the present time which give us opportunities of development on these lines which may not recur and which we should have in the back of our heads not merely in regard to the immediate situation but to the long-term advantages which may accrue from the development of the business.

I have said that the general plan of the board can be considered under three main headings. First of all, the board has placed upon it the obligation of improving the hotel accommodation available in the country. As the House is aware, the board controls the word "hotel", and only premises which are admitted to the register of hotels maintained by the board and are regarded by it as being in every respect entitled to be described as hotels, can be so described. A similar qualification applies in respect to the term "guesthouse". The importance of developing our hotel accommodation and of ensuring proper standards of cooking, cleanliness and other facilities in hotels will be obvious to anyone who has given any thought to this business. No facilities in the form of natural beauty of scenery or the development of resort facilities or of sporting, shooting or fishing facilities will popularise holidays in Ireland either amongst our own people or people from other countries unless there is proper hotel and restaurant accommodation available to them. The board, in addition to its obligation of supervising and raising the standard of hotel accommodation, is empowered to undertake the work of developing holiday resorts. A list of the resorts for which development schemes are ready is given in the White Paper. I shall refer to it later. Similarly the board has the obligation, which is not of immediate importance but which will at some stage become a major feature of its activities, of publicising at home and abroad the facilities available for holidays here.

An amendment has been tabled to the Second Reading of this Bill. That amendment suggests that the Dáil decline to give a Second Reading to the Bill until a committee has been set up to inquire into and report on certain matters therein mentioned. I am not accepting that amendment. I think that the information which the proposed committee would require can and should be given to the Dáil, and that it is here it should be examined. In order to avoid any suggestion that there has been a withholding of information from the Dáil, I propose to deal with these matters in the order in which they are contained in the amendment, and give to the House such information as the committee might hope to obtain as a result of its inquiries. The first item mentioned here is the work already carried out by the Irish Tourist Board. I have, of course, already informed the Dáil that the work of the Tourist Board from 1939 until 1944 was very largely confined to the planning of its future activities. It was planning not merely its own organisation and work but preparing detailed plans, with the aid of its engineers and architects, for resort development schemes. It was only in 1944 that it began actively the work of improving hotel accommodation and of establishing a hotel register. It is only now that it is beginning the business of resort development. The number of hotels registered by the board is 900. The board's officers inspected 1,396 premises, described as hotels, and accepted for registration only 900. The other premises which were not registered as hotels were regarded as not conforming to the standards set by the board either in respect of accommodation, cooking facilities, cleanliness or otherwise. A number of these premises which were not registered as hotels were regarded as suitable as guest-houses and registered as such. Six hundred and two premises, described as guest-houses, were inspected, but of that number only 271 were registered. It is contemplated that a number of the hotels and guest-houses which were not registered will be able to qualify for registration at a subsequent stage when certain improvements, indicated by the board's inspectors, have been carried out.

During these preparatory years the board, as I have already said, carried out a survey of all tourist resorts in the country and prepared, in relation to each resort, where it conceived it to be practicable, a scheme for the development of the amenities there. It has already submitted schemes for improvements and development at 18 resorts. The total cost of the schemes which have been approved provisionally was estimated at £662,000, and it is because the total cost of the provisionally approved schemes reached that figure that this amending Bill has been introduced. As I have already indicated, the actual expenditure to date has not exceeded £122,000. That expenditure was undertaken at the following centres. I will give them in alphabetical order and not in the order of importance. At Ardmore in the County Waterford the board purchased the lands, buildings and effects of the Irish College there. A certain sum has been expended on professional fees in connection with proposed internal reconstruction. The price paid for the lands, buildings and effects of the college was £3,162. It is estimated that the cost of reconstruction will be about £6,000.

Yes. The work of reconstruction has not yet been put in hands. These premises when completed will be used for holiday accommodation for persons who may desire to associate their holidays with the study of the Irish language. Ballinahinch Castle lands and fisheries have been purchased for £20,000 and the Recess fisheries have been acquired for £15,000. It is intended to use these properties as a fishing centre and hotel. A further sum of some magnitude which cannot be precisely estimated as yet will be expended on the improvement of the property. It is expected, however, that Ballinahinch Castle will be opened as a hotel this summer. At Bundoran it has been decided to purchase the urban district council park, houses, shop, cafe, amusement park, a vacant site and a piece of land in the vicinity for their conversion into a swimming pool, tennis courts, amusement parks, car parks, public parks and similar amenities. So far, the total expenditure undertaken has been a sum of £1,330 on the acquisition of the urban district park. A further sum of £4,500 has been expended on the construction of a breakwater and the provision of certain sports facilities. A further scheme for the development of Bundoran is contemplated by the board. It is estimated that the total expenditure which will be incurred in that area when the whole work is completed will be approximately £30,000. At Courtown, County Wexford, the board has acquired the Courtown Estate which consists of Courtown House and a house called Levuka. The cost of these properties was £16,000 and a further substantial sum will require to be expended on the conversion of the houses into hotels and the farm building into a hostel, together with the provision of roads, recreation centres, and other facilities At Killarney, the board has acquired a derelict hotel, the Royal Victoria, with a parcel of land known as Mahony's Point, and further expenditure is contemplated on the acquisition of land in the Killarney area and the provision of new buildings, such as club premises, sports pavilion and restaurant, with a view to development of the facilities there. It is estimated that the total expenditure which the board may incur in the Killarney area in the immediate future will be about £65,000.

At Lisdoonvarna the board has acquired the Queen's Hotel, Lisdoonvarna, for £8,000 and is engaged in reconstructing it. The total estimated cost of the reconstruction of the hotel is £15,000, of which about £4,000 has already been made available. The board also made a loan to the Lisdoonvarna and Rooska Spa Wells Trust for the development of the spa and the board has been authorised to make a further loan of £4,100 to the Trust for the completion of bath houses, reconstruction of tennis courts and the provision of other amenities.

What was the amount of the original loan?

£3,700. The board contemplate further expenditure in that area and their total expenditure in the Lisdoonvarna district may amount to about £78,000. It is expected that the hotel which has been acquired there will be open to receive visitors in the coming summer. At Newtown, Termonfeckin, the board has acquired the house and lands known as Lentaigne Estate for a total sum of £15,000 and these premises are being reconstructed for use as a hotel.

That is County Louth.

County Louth.

What will the reconstruction at Termonfeckin cost?

I cannot give the Deputy a figure. At Portmarnock, County Dublin, the board have purchased the house known as St. Marnock's with adjoining properties for approximately £14,000 and has already expended £3,000 on the reconstruction of the property. Further work of reconstruction as well as the development of the property generally as a pleasure resort are contemplated. It is intended to use the house as a hotel and it is expected that the hotel will be open for business at some time in the present year. At Tramore, County Waterford, the board had already expended £25,000 on the acquisition of lands and premises with the object of developing a pleasure park with the usual amenities of a seaside resort, car parks, cafés, tennis courts, etc. The object of the board's activities at Tramore is to add to the present amenities. It is estimated that the total cost of the work of reconstruction and development which the board will undertake in the Tramore area will be about £105,000. These developments include a swimming pool and public baths as well as a cinema, recreation hall and restaurant. The board has lent a sum of £2,500 to Gaelachas Teoranta for the enlargement and expansion of premises at Garryvoe which are designed to provide accommodation for persons learning Irish in that district.

The next item on the list contained in the amendment is the further plans for development prepared by the board. The board contemplates as one of its main activities in the early future the granting of fixed term loans to hotel keepers for the improvement of the accommodation provided by their hotels. It is considered that the time has arrived when it is practicable for hotel proprietors to improve the standard of their hotel accommodation and to enlarge the accommodation available. In a number of cases that work will be facilitated by the granting of fixed term loans by the board. It is not contemplated to put any limit on the total amount of loans which may be granted by the board for that purpose, but of the £1,250,000 which will be available following the enactment of this Bill, it would be possible for the board, in addition to completing the various development works which are in contemplation, to issue approximately £100,000 to hotel keepers in the form of loans.

I have already mentioned the schemes on which work has been carried out by the board. The board, I should say, contemplate further developments at those centres and also at other centres and the other centres, which I have not yet mentioned, are as follows:—At Arklow, County Wicklow, the board propose to acquire certain properties and to expend money upon the reclamation of these properties and their development as sites for hotel and other holiday facilities. It is thought that the total expenditure which will be undertaken in the Arklow area will be about £27,000. The board also contemplate acquiring certain properties at Dollymount, County Dublin, and the erection of a pavilion, café, dressing-rooms and other facilities. I understand that the board have discussions in progress with the Dublin City Manager, and that, to some extent, the development of the Dollymount area for recreational purposes will be undertaken by the Dublin Corporation.

At Glengarriff the board proposes to acquire certain properties and to develop existing recreational facilities and provide new ones at a total cost of about £10,000. There is also a plan for the development of facilities at Kilkee involving the acquisition of land and the construction of a central pavilion, the total cost of which will be about £20,000. At Rosses Point, County Sligo, the board proposes to acquire and develop a site and to erect thereon a restaurant, dance hall, and other facilities. The total expenditure contemplated by the board in the Rosses Point area is approximately £60,000. At Salthill, County Galway, the board's plans provide for the acquisition of certain houses and the erection of a café, baths and other facilities at a total cost of about £50,000. At Skerries, County Dublin, the board proposes to acquire ground for an amusement park and provision for general recreational facilities at a cost of about £8,000. At Youghal, County Cork, the board has proposals for the acquisition of a site and its development so as to provide hot sea water baths, cafés, and certain other facilities, to a total cost of about £50,000.

I have dealt now with items 1, 2 and 3 in the amendment, the work already carried out by the board, the further plans for development prepared by the board, and the development schemes which have been sanctioned in principle. No. 4 relates to the acquisition of properties by the board. The actual properties acquired by the board to date are: the lands, buildings and effects of the Irish College at Ardmore, Ballinahinch Castle and Recess fisheries; the Urban District Council Park at Bundoran; Courtown House and Levuka House, Courtown; Royal Victoria Hotel and parcel of land at Killarney; the Queen's Hotel, Lisdoonvarna; the Lentaigne house, lands and effects at Newtown, Termonfeckin; St. Marnock's, Portmarnock; lands, houses and cafés at Tramore. The total cost of all these acquisitions was £105,982.

Could the Minister express that in the number of hotels, farmhouses, acres of land, etc.?

I have given the Deputy the actual properties acquired. The acquisition of these is all part of a larger scheme in contemplation, and it would be no indication of the total expenditure contemplated, because in some cases full use would not be made of these properties until other property has been secured in the same district.

Could the Minister saw how many hotels and farmhouses have been acquired already?

The only properties actually acquired so far are those I have stated.

The Department has not counted the number.

The only hotel in operation as a hotel which has already been acquired is the Queen's Hotel, Lisdoonvarna. The board has also acquired the Royal Victoria Hotel at Killarney which was in fact closed. Item 5 relates to the assistance given by the board to stimulate and assist private enterprise. The board has formulated a scheme for assisting private enterprise by means of loans to hotelkeepers who cannot otherwise secure the requisite financial assistance. So far loans have only been made in the two cases I have mentioned, the Irish Hostel at Garryvoe, and the Lisdoonvarna spa development.

Item 6 asks whether the board is undertaking or is planning to undertake work which should be left to private enterprise. It is the policy of the board not to undertake any work where there is a reasonable prospect that private enterprise is likely to do it. The board has made is clear, and in that connection it is also the policy of the Government that it should be made clear, that reliance will be placed upon private enterprise to provide increased holiday facilities. Experience has shown, however, that in a number of important schemes special measures involving the board's direct intervention are necessary. It is for that reason that the board's plans include proposals for the conversion and enlargement, for use as holiday accommodation, of buildings already acquired by it or to be acquired by it. The intention of the board is to establish an interim company to take over and to manage these properties and ultimately offer them to the public. The offer of the interest in these properties will be made to the public when the preliminary development work has been completed and the results secured are sufficient to justify the board in believing that it can make the offer on terms satisfactory to it. While the board has acquired these properties that might otherwise have gone derelict or been left unused, it proposes to develop them before selling them to the public. It is, at the same time, the policy of the board to encourage private enterprise, to develop existing properties and to acquire new properties for development purposes, and, generally, to rely on the private initiative of individual firms and persons to get the results desired. Where necessary, it is prepared to help private interests by making financial facilities available to them in the form of advances.

The seventh and last item mentioned in the amendment is the nature of the administrative machinery established by the board. That position is governed by Section 11 of the 1939 Act. I would not find it practicable to give a clear picture of the scheme of organisation of the board's staff, but I can give the Dáil all the information which may be considered relevant to enable them to understand the nature and dimensions of the staff which at present is undertaking the board's activities. The cost of the board and its staff is provided for in Section 15 of the Act of 1939. The total cost in the present year is estimated at £38,000. Of that £38,000, £18,000 is earmarked for publicity and advertising, and the balance is made up as follows: the board's fees, £2,300; staff salaries, £10,000; travelling expenses and subsistence allowances, £1,400; consultants' fees and expenses, £1,500; office expenses and supplies, £700; rates, rents, establishment charges and general expenses, £3,400; furniture and fittings, £300; contingencies and sundry expenses, £400. It is, of course, possible that the staff in the service of the board will require to be extended as the work of the board becomes enlarged and particularly as it has the responsibility of supervising the carrying out of numerous works involving construction in various parts of the country, but, generally speaking, the administrative expenses of the board will be small in relation to the total outlay contemplated under the whole scheme.

I have attempted to give the Dáil all possible information. The Bill itself is one which can usefully be discussed on Second Reading only. There is no scope for Committee Stage discussion, because it is practically a one-clause Bill, and, in passing the Second Reading, the Dáil would, in fact, be giving approval to the general scheme which the board is carrying out. I should have liked to have deferred the introduction of the Bill until the work which the board had planned during the war years had further advanced and until Deputies could see for themselves the type of work the board is undertaking and the centres at which that work is being done. A number of these resort development schemes have been delayed by lack of supplies and equipment, but it is hoped to commence activities on most, if not all, this year, even if only to a limited extent.

The Bill is being introduced here now for the technical reason that the actual estimated cost of the approved works exceeds the limit provided for in the 1939 Act and it was considered desirable on that account that the Dáil should be given this opportunity to deal with the matter, even though we are not yet in a position to say that the board's work has progressed to the point at which it is possible to estimate its ultimate value to the country or the skill with which it has been directed. I think, however, it will be generally agreed that this resort development work and the other activities of the board in raising the standard and improving the adequacy of our hotel accommodation are work worth doing, that it must be done by some such organisation as this board and that the State can legitimately take a real interest in it because of its ultimate economic importance to the country. If that point is agreed, although there may be criticism of the detailed administration of the board, I think the House will have little difficulty in enacting the measure.

I move the amendment on the Order Paper:—

To delete all words after the word "That" and substitute the following words:—

"the Dáil declines to give a Second Reading to the Tourist Traffic (Amendment) Bill, 1946, until a Select Committee, to be appointed by the Committee of Selection and with powers to send for persons, papers and documents, shall have inquired into and reported upon:—

(1) the work already carried out by the Irish Tourist Board,

(2) the further plans for development prepared by the board,

(3) the developments schemes which have been sanctioned in principle,

(4) the acquisition of properties by the board,

(5) the assistance given by the board to stimulate and assist private enterprise,

(6) whether the board has undertaken or is planning to undertake work which should be left to private enterprise, and

(7) the nature of the administrative machinery established by the board."

While rather disapproving of the approach of the Minister to this matter and regarding it as a complete reversal of the approach which he indicated when dealing with the 1939 Act when it was going through the Dáil, particularly in relation to the acquiring, building and carrying on of hotels, it is satisfactory that he has taken this amendment as a basis for giving a certain amount of information to the House on certain aspects of the Tourist Board's work. If there is one thing more than another which has characterised public opinion generally with regard to the work of the Tourist Board, it is complete dissatisfaction with the amount of information which it was possible to obtain on what the board was doing, the principles upon which it was acting and the relationship between the board and the Department of Industry and Commerce and the Department of Finance. There has been complete failure on the part of the board to do anything to assist the ordinary professional people who were carrying on the hotel and catering business and the tourist business generally, and it has been impossible to find out how the board's staff was organised and how it worked. There has been a general complaint that the whole administrative working, the whole planning and the principles upon which the board was working, were absolutely and completely shrouded in secrecy.

The Minister's statement to-day will have lifted the veil of secrecy from the scene a little, but it will not have in any way assured people who have been alarmed by and opposed to the tendencies they have seen in the carrying on of the board's work, because the statement of the Minister to-day shows that in regard to a very important matter—the taking over of hotels, the organisation of hotels and the running of hotels directly by the board—he has completely departed from the outlook which he indicated he was going to adopt in respect of the lines upon which the board was to work when it was originally set up. The criticism has been put forward that the board as at present constituted and as it has been constituted has not amongst its personnel anybody with any contact with or experience of the hotel, catering, or tourist business generally. Apparently one of the results of that, and perhaps a very necessary result, is that the board has kept itself away from the ordinary fabric of enterprise catering for this class of work in the country and has set out on a particular line entirely on its own. It has in a very large number of cases set out to acquire, to purchase and actually to run a considerable number of hotels of either a large or a small kind.

When the Minister was dealing with the proposed provision of £600,000 under Section 16 of the original Act, he indicated, in column 178 of the Official Reports of 27th April, 1939, the headings generally under which it was expected that amount would be spent. He indicated that (1) approximately £150,000 would be used as loans for the extension and improvement of existing accommodation; (2) £250,000 as loans to, or investments in, new hotels and guest houses, including provision for hostel accommodation for industrial holiday-makers; (3) £150,000 for resort improvements through the medium of loans and investments; and (4) about £50,000 for other loans and investments not covered by any of the other three heads. When the Minister comes to deal with the duties of the board, we find that he places in the forefront of his statement the establishment, equipment, etc., of hotels and guest houses. In the very forefront of the board's duties is given the establishment and equipment by the board of these places. We find that being done at a time when, looking over the various accounts and particularly the accounts presented by the board— meagre as the information in them is —in which we are given certain information with regard to the assets held by the board at the end of March, 1945, as a result of its expenditure of money received by it under Section 16, we find the whole assets represented by £32,023 for development when the total provision for loans was £620,000 odd.

I take it that a substantial part of that amount was represented by the loan for the assistance of the Gaelic hostel at Garryvoe, so that, up to March, 1945, and, so far as we know, up to date, no part of that £150,000 expected to be expended on loans for the improvement of existing accommodation and no part of the £250,000 to be expended on loans to and investments in new hotels and guest houses, including provision of hostel accommodation for industrial workers, has been expended through private channels. In my opinion, there has been a complete turn-back on the whole idea which the Minister impressed upon us when the 1939 Bill was being dealt with regarding assistance to private persons who had been carrying on this business and who will be carrying it on in the future. There has been no expenditure whatever by way of assisting those persons. The Minister winds up the White Paper by saying:—

"Its success will depend on the manner in which those engaged on it rise to their opportunity by enterprise, efficiency and the provision of facilities on fair terms for holiday-makers."

The Minister was there referring to hotels, restaurants and general services for holiday-makers. In reply to Deputy Cosgrave, who questioned him originally in connection with the building of hotels in particular places, particularly Rineanna, the Minister said he was perfectly sure that 99 per cent. of the persons who were engaged in the hotel, restaurant and general catering business for holiday-makers, would be only too glad to avail of the financial accommodation which would be provided by the board. While the Minister was of opinion that 99 per cent. of those engaged in the business would welcome financial assistance from the board, no arrangement has been made to give that class of persons any assistance, good, bad or indifferent.

I have repeatedly reminded the House that, when war broke out in September, 1939, we approached the Government and indicated that, in our opinion, the military situation was not then such as would have a direct impact on this country but that, in our view, the economic situation would be a serious one. We asked to have a body of experts set up which would review in a detached way what was happening in the world and relate that to the position here, so that we could take advantage of any opportunity which offered to prepare for the future and to deal with any weaknesses in our economy which might be brought about by world conditions. That was rather brushed aside by the Government. An Act had, however, been passed giving control of the tourist industry to a body which was in a position to look at affairs in the world and to see what the trends were and what our weaknesses might be. They had been provided with £620,000, a very considerable part of which was intended to provide financial assistance for persons engaged in the service of holiday-makers. We find that nothing has since been done about that. Even the work of registration, with which we are not concerned so much here, was left completely in abeyance and no steps were taken to deal with even the preliminaries to registration until some time in 1944. In the meantime, money was being spent yearly under Section 16, so that, by March, 1945, there had been a total expenditure of £41,840 on salaries and other expenses of a non-repayable kind. Between 1939 and March, 1945, £29,435 had been paid out in salaries and wages and £12,405 in other expenses. After the annual report and statement of accounts, issued for the year ended March, 1944, there were rumblings as to what exactly was going on. We find that what was going on was that properties were being bought up by the State in various holiday areas. The board was knuckling in on the running of a rather widespread and elaborate scheme of State hotels. That is a complete change from the principles put forward by the Minister on Second Reading and in Committee when dealing with the Bill in 1939. On the 23rd May, 1939, Deputy McMenamin objected to a clause in the Bill which gave the board power to erect hotels. In reply, the Minister said:—

"I merely want to repeat what I said on the Second Reading Stage, that it is not the intention that the board should enter into competition with private concerns.... When I say that it is not the intention of the board to enter into competition with private individuals, what I mean is that the board will, in no circumstances, undertake commercial activities which it can prompt private enterprise to undertake. It will be the normal function of the board to interest itself in the development and expansion of hotels by means of loans and investments and not by building and operating hotels."

In column 60, he stated:—

"I do not want to leave the House under any misapprehension with regard to this particular paragraph. While I think it is desirable that the board should have the power to build and operate hotels and while I think the possession of these powers will strengthen its general position in relation to private interests and make it easier for it to get its main job done, I would regard it as definitely contrary to the public interest that the board should unnecessarily engage in any business enterprise of this kind. Their main function must be to stimulate private enterprise and, if they do not succeed in stimulating private enterprise to provide better hotel and other holiday facilities which the country requires, then, they will have failed in their main job and we shall have to consider the position again, but the affording of that stimulus to private enterprise is their main function. It will be only when all attempts to secure the development desired through private commercial enterprise fails that they will contemplate exercising the powers conferred by the section."

In column 62, he stated, after a question had been raised as to whether a board itself engaged in running hotels was the proper body to grade hotels:

"If that should arise, we shall have to consider the matter afresh, but I do not contemplate any development of that kind."

He did not contemplate a development of a kind in which the board would be running hotels. That was the Minister's attitude as reiterated on Committee Stage. He had dealt with the matter on Second Reading and was then equally emphatic. On the 27th April, he stated:—

"It is not intended that the board should undertake the construction and operation of hotels in competition with existing enterprises but it is desirable, I think, that the board should have the power of doing so. There are two reasons for my saying that. There may be cases—I can think of one immediately—where private enterprise will not, for obvious reasons, provide a hotel or similar accommodation which the national interests might demand..."

The Minister went on to speak of Rineanna and the possibility of acquiring a hotel there. Ennis or Limerick would not do. I do not know whether it is now contemplated that a hotel should be built at Rineanna but there are indications of a proposal to set up an elaborate hotel in the City of Limerick, of which the board will be part owner. If that is so, it conflicts entirely with the Minister's opinion at that particular time when the question of the possibility of requiring a hotel to be built at Rineanna—he did not say "probability"—was discussed by the Minister as one of the kind of cases in which the board might build a hotel.

The other type of case about which the Minister spoke, in which they might have to intervene directly in the running of hotels, is dealt with in column 1255:—

"There may be an odd case, where because of lack of initiative or enterprise it may be impossible to get, through the persons who are now engaged in the catering business in particular localities, a proper standard of accommodation in these localities and it will help the board, in its efforts to stimulate enterprise, to get the initiative and the results it desires, to have the powers which the Bill gives to it."

He pressed for the powers in the spirit in which there was not going to be any direct interference with private enterprise. The board was to be stimulated to do what was then regarded as the most important thing, that is to encourage and help the people already in the industry to carry on the industry successfully.

The Minister has indicated that the board has bought a certain number of properties which will be run in future, and may be run this year, as hotels. The chairman of the Tourist Board has already referred to this matter. I do not recognise any similarity at all between the establishments as described by the Minister and as described by the chairman of the Tourist Board. The chairman is the person who is spending the money and doing all this work, whether it be under the direction of the Department of Industry and Commerce or not, I do not know. We have been given to understand that the board is an independent board but the Minister has indicated that, at any rate on two different occasions, the Government directly intervened—to tell the board to stop on the one hand and to tell the board to go on, on the other. The chairman of the board has rather indicated that the hotels that are being taken over are being run by the board for an entirely different class of persons from those for whom the Minister said the Bill is intended specially to cater. The Minister as a matter of principle—and I think rightly—stresses that the activity that we require in the development of the tourist business should be aimed at enabling our own people to enjoy their increasing holidays and the leisure with which a proper organisation of society here would bless them, in a convenient and comparatively cheap way in their own country and in their own natural surroundings. I think we should all like to subscribe to that theory and we should all like to see the theory put into operation on a more extended scale.

Again I should like to say that I do not understand the Minister's difficulty regarding any reflection that any persons may try to cast on holiday services in this country as being in any way mean. We are as much dependent upon what our organised neighbours can do for us in the hotel, restaurant and general holiday services way as we are dependent on those neighbours who make our boots, cut our hair, put our motor cars together, make our furniture or cater for us in a general business way. It is news to me to hear that there is any section of public opinion that is animadverting in any way on the respectability of, or the absolute social necessity for, persons engaged in the occupation of hotel-running or the running of amusements services in their various forms. I do not think we or the Minister need delay to consider suggestions of that kind. It is essential in general social and economic interests, that in the division of our labour, we should find people who are as willing, in an honourable and self-respecting way, to engage in this service as to find people for any of the other services, in the management of a business of any other kind or the doing of the detailed work which these businesses are established to help. It is absolutely essential that we should have these services, and the more we become better socially organised here, the more leisure we would expect everybody here to have, the more we should wish to be socially and commercially organised to enable people to make a profitable use of their leisure.

The necessity and the ideal of which the Minister speaks seem to be absolutely and completely lost sight of by the board when we consider the various ways in which the moneys the Minister mentioned as being placed at the disposal of the board are being expended. He mentioned Ardmore, Ballinahinch, Bundoran, Courtown Harbour, Killarney, Lisdoonvarna, Termonfeckin, Portmarnock and Tramore. He mentioned these as the first nine places where development has taken place and indicated that in Lisdoonvarna and in Portmarnock hotel accommodation would be opened this year. The chairman of the Tourist Board, discussing these matters, put a completely different complexion on the matter. He said that these hotels would not compete with local business, because they would be equipped and furnished on a far more luxurious scale than would normally be found in resorts of this sort and that they would cater for a wealthier class of tourist. In fact, he said that acquisition of the hotels and the acreages which accompanied them was an attempt to make these resorts much more fashionable. As a matter of fact, he described them as hotels-de-luxe. He indicated that it was only a body such as the Irish Tourist Board that could take a longer view than private enterprise; it was only a body like that that could afford to acquire this property and develop it, if it were confident that it would eventually yield a handsome profit. So that, as regards the carrying on of all this work, the words used in the published statement made by the chairman are such as to show that they are entirely at variance with the statement the Minister makes, but they seem to be somewhat in the spirit in which the Minister generally approaches the control of things.

When we dealt with the Second Reading of the 1939 Bill I had occasion to draw the Minister's attention to the fact that a few days before he had been indicating that the more the State was able to control and direct things the better things would be in the country. He said, on the 12th May, 1939, in column 2366, on the General Resolution in connection with the Budget:—

"A great part of our future development depends on the willingness of the people in this country to entrust to the State their savings or their capital for expenditure upon capital undertakings."

I intervened to say: "And the State is going to be the developing machinery." The Minister then said:—

"It does not matter whether the State is going to undertake all the capital expenditure which the future development of the country requires or whether private companies or private individuals are going to undertake that expenditure. Unless there is confidence in the State, in the credit and the stability of the State, that money will not be available."

But we have, in fact, in the working of the board, a complete reversal of the Minister's outlook as expressed to the House when dealing with the original Bill. We have a complete discrepancy between the function that the Minister indicates these hotels, large or small, are going to have in the country, and the function as explained on 7th November, 1945, by the chairman of the Tourist Board, and we have the position that after expending, over the last five years, £41,840 on salaries and the running of an office, there is nothing to show for it at the end of March. 1945, but some moneys spent in developing a site at Tramore, purchasing property there, and purchasing certain other properties throughout the country to the extent of £32,000. There was nothing done good, bad or indifferent from the time this Bill was passed in 1939 up to March, 1945, to assist the persons this board was set up to assist —that is, those who were carrying on the industry.

The Minister has stated that arrangements are now being made to grant loans to persons who are carrying on the business in various parts of the country, but in the neighbourhood of, say, Dundalk, they are very much behind-hand in their development, and priority in materials and in money is being given to the development of a new hotel at Termonfeckin. The same applies to Portmarnock. What type of hotel development by direct action of the board is being carried on, or is contemplated, at Portmarnock that is not being, or could not be, carried on by private persons in the same neighbourhood? After the board have set up a new hotel at Portmarnock, does the Minister think that that is the moment to approach those already engaged in the development of Portmarnock and offer them financial assistance to improve their position there when the board has already, as it were, cut them out and is attempting to take the cream of the wealthier visitors to Portmarnock, taking them to build up the board's property?

The same applies to Courtown. The board have described the Termonfeckin hotel as a de-luxe one and they have described the hotels at Portmarnock and Courtown in the same way. The same remark would apply to Lisdoonvarna. I do not understand what type of development will take place at Killarney. I would have thought the Killarney situation was fairly well developed from the hotel point of view and that, if there was any additional development to take place there, the Killarney people were fully capable of carrying it out.

The Minister's policy has been completely overturned. I suggest that his attitude in the House is in conflict with the principles that are being put into operation. I suggest that the Bill is not being used for the purpose for which it was intended—that is, to help and stimulate people who will have to carry on the business and who are at the moment carrying it on. The additional information given can only draw more public attention to the facts. Whether it will sufficiently develop public opinion among those interested in having holiday facilities of a cheap and reasonable kind, or those people who are interested in the development of holiday services in a proper way because they belong to that avocation, and whether it will enable them to hold up the objectionable tendency that has taken place in the working of the board, is another matter.

I suggest that it will require a tremendous focussing of public attention on the working of the board to see that the principles which the Minister wishes to stand by will be held safe in practice. The Minister's statement is satisfactory in that he has allowed a little more light on the situation, but as a statement of policy it is utterly at variance with the things that we think are required in the country. We think what are required are not so much de-luxe hotels as a concentration on the type of hotel we have at present, and particularly the extension to the less populous parts of the country, where there are natural holiday features, of smaller hotels and guest-houses that can accommodate a small number of guests who will have the advantage of sporting and fishing and that type of holiday that has been so remunerative to a large number of people.

In the more popular centres the holiday-makers require a holiday of a definite type. It would be fantastic to have the board butting into these centres and developing luxury hotels, the only purpose of which can be to raise the price of holiday-making in these areas, because where you get an hotel of that kind catering for the wealthier classes the result will be to drive up the cost of holiday-making. That would be an unnatural development, an artificial development. The fact is, there is a board, and it has no one on it in any way connected with the hotel or restaurant business. It is dependent on consultants and experts, called in during the past five years, and up to March, 1945, they were paid £1,448. It has already been suggested that what is wanted is a board that will, to a considerable extent, reflect the experience and the ability of people engaged in that business. Until we get that board there is bound to be an artificial development of this kind, and we are going to have an attempt to strengthen the grip of the State on activities which should be left to ordinary private enterprise. For that reason I consider that the House should pass the amendment.

The Minister states that this is the proper place to discuss this matter. This is the proper place to discuss it and to come to a final conclusion, but it is hardly the place where the real facts can be properly brought out. It is not the place where the tendency disclosed by these facts can be fully thrashed out. The Minister has indicated that that is not the kind of discussion we could have on Second Reading. To some extent that is true, although I hope on Committee Stage we can go backwards and forwards and have a more informative discussion than is possible on Second Reading. This is the place for discussion and the place for decision. It is not the place where we can get the facts, to see them in their full perspective and importance, or where we can discuss the principles. That is why I suggest we should not agree further to increase the amount of money provided until we have reviewed the matter. The only way it can be properly reviewed is by having a committee of the kind I suggest to see what is being done at present, and where it is leading us.

I second the motion. Having heard the Minister it strikes me that he and his advisers are in a state of perplexity. They are quite obviously experimenting with the people's money in this enterprise, but have not yet made up their minds whether they are going into the hotel business to stay there, or merely as a temporary experiment, so as to set an example to the hoteliers of the country. If these hotels and these various institutions which have been purchased by the Tourist Development Board had been purchased, shall we say, as experimental institutions, to set an example to hoteliers, as to what might be done in that business to attract tourists from abroad, I could appreciate the merits of the enterprise. I certainly cannot endorse a system by which we go into the enterprise now, in the hope of making it pay, and then selling it back to private enterprise, particularly when we consider that the Tourist Development Board itself is constituted by a personnel which have neither training nor experience directly in the hotel business. So far as I am aware no member of the Tourist Development Board has had any training whatever as a hotelier. Some are civil servants, or quasi civil servants, but none of them has at any time had to earn his living in the hotel business. These are the people who, apparently, are to undertake the task of directing the country on this vast scale. The vocational commission in its findings had reason to find fault with that system of enterprise, and the President, when speaking last year as Minister for Finance, in his Budget statement, said quite frankly that State intervention carried us too far towards totalitarianism.

We are embarking on another enterprise now, whereby the hotel business of this country will have to depend for its existence upon State sanction, endorsement and approval. In the first place, a hotelier must depend for registration of his premises on the board's officers. If he has need to seek a loan for the development of his business, he must apply to the board and depend upon the goodwill of the board to consider his application. The Minister indicated that something like £100,000 of the money will be allocated for fixed term loans to hoteliers. He also indicated that there is no limit to the amount of loans which may be granted by the board to hoteliers. As far as I can see the roof is off. It is not only a question of raising the amount from £600,000 to £1,250,000, but the House may be asked to advance any fixed term loans if it sees its way to do so. Already some 900 hotels and 271 guest-houses are registered, and it is quite obvious that if any considerable percentage of these institutions were now to look for a loan, they could not hope to get more than a very small loan. In the event of any considerable number of our hotels or guest-houses seeking loans from the State the ultimate figure will be collosal.

I want to direct the attention of the House to that aspect of the matter, because all advances under the Tourist Traffic Act of 1939 may be wiped out if the Minister for Finance agrees with the Minister for Industry and Commerce to wipe them out. Not only the principal and interest, but all advances may be wiped out. It is important that we should realise that when we are asked to pass this extra £650,000. Every advance made to the board under Section 16 of the Tourist Traffic Act of 1939, together with the principal and interest, may be waived. So we get the position that, if the board continues to advance moneys to people who are no mark for them and if they cannot recover the amounts from the various hoteliers, we have to foot the bill.

At the same time, the Minister, through the board, is going into the hotel business. If he were doing that merely to set a good example and induce hoteliers to follow it and develop on those lines, I would endorse it. There is grave necessity to bring our hotel business into line with other countries. Those with any experience of the Continent realise that we are only tinkering with the business and need to learn a lot. It is there that I quarrel with the way in which the board has functioned since 1939. Certainly, they have not exercised the powers they might have exercised under Section 16, that is, to bring the standard of hotel menus and hotel food generally up to a proper level. A good deal could have been done in those years to bring those hotels to the level of a decent table. Compared with the pre-war standards on the Continent, we have a lot of leeway to make up and we are very far behind in the development of a purely Irish menu that would be capable of attracting visitors and establish for ourselves in the tourist business a national tradition and a national reputation. We have done nothing at all to develop on that line and, so far as I know from my experience in travelling around the country, there has been very little change in the matter of menu from the old days. Many of them are still in the bacon and egg stage and many of them seem to have no desire to get away from that. That is a serious commentary on our business after all those years of publicity and attempted development of our tourist traffic.

In that connection, I would like to see some effort made, perhaps in conjunction with the Department of Education, to develop a hotel service through our vocational schools. In other countries there is no inferiority status or social degradation attaching to people going into the hotel business. The biggest people in the land start at the bottom and work their way up. Even the sons of hoteliers in Switzerland, France, Brittany and Italy go into the hotel business as a matter of course, just as the youth of this country go into an ordinary profession. They do not start at the top: they start to learn the business in another institution, away from home and in another atmosphere, and they start at the bottom and go through the mill. We need to rid ourselves of our superiority complex and get down to bed rock.

I would like to see an approach made, first of all, by the Department of Education through the vocational schools to develop hotel servants of a proper standing — qualified waiters, waitresses, chefs, cooks, and so on. We have great need of some such service in order that we may reach a reasonable standard. In addition to what is done under that heading in other countries, they have, in France, for example, yearly championships in the hotel trade—a championship of chefs, for instance. You will find in France a championship every year for the South, for the West, and different provinces of France, and eventually a national championship for the best chef of the year, another for the best chef in Brittany, the best chef in the South, and so on. We could have been doing something on those lines if it is the Minister's view that this is to become a permanent feature of our economic life. It is useless to go into this trade if we are merely going to cash in on the present emergency conditions. Undoubtedly, there is an opportunity at the moment to take advantage of the shortage of food and hotel accommodation on the Continent and make a good profit, within the next few years, out of the people who otherwise would go to the Continent for holidays. Are the Minister and the Tourist Board satisfied that that trade is going to remain with us in the post-emergency period?

Even in the past week, I have been speaking to a distinguished officer of the Czech Army, who has been in various businesses and has had wide experience of hotel life on the Continent. He assures me, from his experience here, particularly within the past month, that if our hoteliers are allowed to continue doing their business as they are at the moment, and continue fleecing the foreigner as they are at the moment, it is very unlikely that the trade will remain with us. In the first place, his quarrel is that the table is very, very poor, as compared with the continental table pre-war. No effort is made to cater for the taste of the continental visitor, no effort is made to learn the type of food a particular foreigner coming to this country may need. That is his first grouse. Everybody who has been on the Continent knows that you do not give a Frenchman bacon and eggs for breakfast. He has no breakfast— merely coffee and rolls, but if we look at the coffee and rolls some of our hotels serve, I am afraid there is a very poor opinion of what is necessary. These are small matters, but they are the basis on which the hotel business on the Continent was built up.

I want to emphasise again that I am not at all satisfied that that trade is likely to remain with us, unless we can provide the same amenities in the way of food, hotel accommodation, sport and amusements that people will get elsewhere. I know that the board is aiming in that direction, but before we spend money on all these enterprises we should consider a lot of basic facts which affect us here. The first of those facts is our weather. Given a choice of holidays, any citizen of any country will take the sunny climate in preference to the wet one, he will take the place where he is sure of constant sea bathing in constant sunshine during a regular period of clear weather. We cannot guarantee that here. We have to consider, in all this matter, the background of our peculiar climate, its fickleness and changeability. It does definitely affect our position in the business and, therefore, if we are to counter the disadvantages of our weather conditions, we have to provide the indoor attractions and amusements which will keep our people here at seaside resorts in inclement weather. That is a great drawback. How soon we can reach that position I do not know; certainly not in the next five or ten years—and by that time we shall have lost the opportunity of the present emergency.

Again I quarrel with the board for not having foreseen the position and not having been ready to jump in. What we are doing now will not have material results for four or five years, in many cases. Only a few places will be ready for visitors this year and we have no indication as to when visitors will be welcome in other resorts where developments are about to take place. The Minister has said that it is the policy of the board to discourage tourists this year. I find it hard to reconcile that with the statement made quite recently by Mr. Barry, Secretary of the Tourist Association, who very strongly appealed to all Irish citizens to take their holidays now in May and June, as there was no hope of accommodation for any Irish tourist in any Irish seaside resort in July or August. I am sure Mr. Barry must have been speaking from definite information of bookings in hotels. It is also the individual experience of many people to whom I have been speaking that it is impossible to-day to book in any recognised hotel in any of the principal resorts. I know people who have been going to the same hotel year after year and this year they have been refused accommodation for themselves and their families and have been told it has been booked by English or Scotch visitors. I question whether it is wise that our people should be put in that position. The first consideration, as the Minister indicated, is to provide holidays at home for our own people. That should be the primary policy underlying the work of the board. To-day the position is that very few people will be able to get holidays in any decent Irish resort.

I would like the Minister to say in what order of priority the applications to the board for these fixed-term loans will be dealt with by the board. How is the board to decide as between A. and B. in a particular locality where you have resorts? Which of them is to have prior claim for consideration? Is it to be a question of an individual applicant's enterprise and acumen in securing a loan, or is the decision to be based on the needs in a particular locality where an applicant makes application for such facilities? Many people at the present time will quarrel with any policy which would permit an invasion of tourists, particularly having regard to the existing European food situation. They would feel that if there was a surplus of food to be given to such an army of visitors that, instead, it should be sent where it is most needed—to the starving peoples of Europe.

I want to say, in conclusion, that I am a bit sceptical about all these schemes. I feel that when a State, or a semi-State, Department goes into business there is a great tendency to slack up, to drift indefinitely, to swing the lead, to mark time and to take it easy. In practically every country in the world, that has been the experience in regard to State enterprises. We want to be very careful indeed in this, having regard to that fact, that we are not merely creating a number of soft and easy jobs for various people in the country, but a situation whereby it will be essential to secure that public funds are not going to be squandered. You have as a background to all this business the fact that all these advances may be wiped out. I am sure there would have to be very good reasons indeed before the Minister for Finance would agree to wipe out any advance, but, nevertheless, that is there as a background to all this. That may help to create the impression among people who succeed in getting loans that they have nothing to worry about: that they can hold off the Tourist Board and prevent it from enforcing its power in regard to loans as against them, and that the State will eventually blue-pencil the loans granted. That is a dangerous background to envisage.

We should be very careful before we agree to hand out so much money. As I see the position at the moment, there is no end to the amount of money that this House may be asked for in this matter of loans. There is no limit to the loans. In these circumstances, there should, first of all, be a thorough investigation as to the soundness of the security obtainable before a loan is granted. In other words, the principle in regard to advances of this kind should be strictly the principle which any reasonable lender would exercise towards a borrower who has reasonable credit to offer. There should not be any attempt either on the part of the Minister to overlook the board's activities, or of the board itself to advance money to people with derelict concerns, to people who ordinarily would be regarded as bad marks for the money they were seeking. If people in this business have shown individual enterprise or if they have a record or a tradition behind them, they can, to my mind, get all the facilities they want in the ordinary way through the banks. Any man who is in the hotel business, and has made a success of it, has not had to go elsewhere for his backing. There is the danger, however, that we may have all kinds and conditions of people going to the board, simply because this is a semi-State institution, looking for money for nothing on the plea that they are helping in some way the tourist traffic in their particular area.

I do not think there is anything more I have to say beyond again emphasising that I am sorry the Minister did not see fit to adopt the recommendations of the Commission on Vocational Organisation on this matter, and to set up a development board which would be composed largely of people who had practical experience in the hotel business. It would, of course, only be right to couple with such personnel representatives of the Minister on the board. I feel that at present the board is weighted entirely the other way. So far as I know, there is no member of the board who has had any training or experience in the hotel business. That is an extraordinary commentary on the position which we are now creating: that we are setting up a board which is to go into the hotel business, and is to encourage and develop tourist traffic, and yet that we have not on that board one member who has had experience of the business. I think that if the Minister is wise he will rectify that position and alter the personnel of the board so as to ensure that people who are making their living directly out of the tourist traffic will have full and proper representation on the board.

As this is an amending Bill, with the one function of enlarging the financial provisions of the Principal Act, there is not very much scope for discussion on it. The Bill does, however, afford the House an opportunity of reviewing the activities of the Tourist Board over the period of its existence, and of making recommendations for the future development of the tourist trade. It think it is unfortunate that the Bill has been introduced at this stage for the reason that, during the emergency, there was not much done by the Tourist Board in the way of development. In that situation, it is difficult for the House to decide definitely whether the work of the board has been proceeding on the right lines or not. Up to the present, there has not been very much activity on the part of the board, and as I say it is difficult for Deputies to judge whether the board's work has been carried out efficiently or otherwise. I think the House will agree that some machinery, such as that provided in the Principal Act, is necessary.

It was necessary to have some system of registration of hotels and other catering establishments so as to have some definite standard. That was overdue. It is also necessary to provide for development work in tourist areas. There is certain development work which private enterprise is not in a position to undertake. The provision of parks, bathing facilities and so on, can rarely be undertaken on a large scale by private enterprise, and local authorities often are not in a position or not properly constituted to undertake them. Therefore, on the main principle, there was need for such a body as is provided in the Principal Act and it is rather soon for this House to decide definitely whether or not the board has failed in its activities up to the present.

The amendment which has been tabled has served a useful purpose in so far as it indicated to the Minister the type of information which the proposers of the amendment were anxious to obtain. The Minister made a reasonable attempt to meet the amendment in as far as providing information is concerned. He stated a considerable number of facts in regard to the work of the Tourist Board up to the present and in regard to their proposals for the future. I was interested in the number of development schemes in regard to which preliminary investigations have been carried out. I was disappointed that County Wicklow was not included in the schemes which have been prepared although the Minister did indicate that it is proposed to embark upon considerable expenditure in regard to Arklow. What is the order of priority in the provision of development schemes in respect of the various areas? Assuming that development schemes are of benefit to the areas concerned, I should imagine there is a demand from the various areas that the board should undertake work of development and I am anxious to know how the board decide as between the claims of the various districts and what standards or what qualifications are required in order to satisfy the board that a scheme should be introduced.

As far as development and improvement are concerned, the House will agree that such work is desirable and, also, that it is desirable that it should be undertaken by the board but, when there is a board intervening in work which can be carried on by private enterprise as, for instance, the management of hotels and such establishments, one is inclined to question the wisdom of that course. It is generally agreed that wherever private enterprise can be successful the State should not intervene. There may be areas, and I am open to conviction that there are, where it is necessary that the State should intervene in order to provide hotel accommodation. There may perhaps be two types of hotel accommodation which private enterprise cannot readily provide, very expensive or luxurious accommodation desired by foreign tourists and, perhaps, very cheap accommodation for workers in our cities and large towns for whom holidays are provided. It may be that in those two extremes the State through the Tourist Board, may be able to provide the most suitable type of accommodation. The greatest care should be exercised to avoid intervening and competing where private enterprise can deliver the goods. That is particularly necessary by reason of the fact that the Tourist Board acts as a supervisory body, regulating the affairs of privately owned hotels, and it seems somewhat irregular and unjust that a body which regulates the affairs of private hotels should also compete with them in a rival capacity.

I welcome the Minister's statement that it is intended to provide for very considerable expenditure on tourist development in Arklow. There is no doubt that in that district there is an urgent and long-felt need for a general improvement. It is certainly capable of development and, if improved, will certainly be one of the best holiday resorts on the eastern seacoast. As far as hotel accommodation is concerned, private enterprise in that district would be quite capable of providing all that is required. There is scarcely any provincial town which has a larger number of enterprising business people than there are in Arklow. I am interested to know if it is proposed to do anything in regard to the Liffey Reservoir at Poulaphouca. A vast new lake has been created there which is a great national asset in the matter of the provision of electricity and water supply and which would also be capable of development as an excellent tourist centre. I am not suggesting that such a place could ever be a bathing resort, it might possibly be used for boating, although I am not so sure of that, but I think it is a good fishing centre and, with improved facilities, could be a first-class tourist resort, being situated not too far from the city. Again, the question of priority arises and I am anxious to know in regard to what standards the board decide whether a particular area should be developed or not.

With regard to loans for hotel keepers it is difficult to know why there should be a special necessity for such loans. So far as most businesses are concerned, the banks provide very adequate credit facilities. However, there may be some special case for hotel keepers. I would, however, be interested to know what rate of interest it is proposed to charge on the loans provided. Will they be given at a higher or at a lower rate than those provided by the banks? I would also require some information as to the existing system of recruitment of employees by the board. Will it be by open competitive examination? I think that is the most desirable method. At the present time, we have more and more State-owned public boards being set up. These boards provide a very considerable amount of employment and it is essential that there should be no favouritism in regard to the recruitment of employees for such bodies, any more than in the Civil Service.

Another matter which I think demands consideration is the training of staffs engaged in the various hotels and catering establishments and in holiday resorts generally. I am aware that facilities are being provided in our schools, particularly in our vocational schools, for the training of people who will be employed in hotels. I think there should be some definite, recognised certificate of merit which could be obtained by students and which would give them a definite standing in the profession whatever particular branch it may be, whether as chefs or other employees in hotels. There should be some definite standard fixed through our educational establishments to give these employees at least a definite standard.

Generally speaking, the tourist industry is one which must be developed. There can be no question of its being a burden on the community or something which is nationally undesirable. The stress of modern employment requires that workers should have a certain amount of recreation and, so far as possible, it is essential that we should be able to provide within this country recreation for our people instead of having them going abroad to seek recreation. In addition to that, it ought to be and will be a source of national revenue to attract to this country in normal times tourists from other lands. As the Minister pointed out, it is better to dispose of our surplus food supplies as cooked meals rather than shipping them as foodstuffs to other countries. We have not yet, I think, reached the stage where it is undesirable to export anything. Since we have to export, and food is the main commodity which we have for export, I think it is better to export it in the most profitable manner, and that is, by bringing tourists into this country and letting them spend their money here.

I think the House will be prepared to provide the additional sum which is required. The Minister has outlined schemes which it is intended to undertake. He has informed the House that the amount of money already provided has been earmarked for special schemes and that additional money is required for further development. Unless the House can be convinced of either of two things, (1) that the board has failed completely in its duty, or (2) that tourist development is unnecessary and undesirable, I think the House will be prepared to vote for this Bill.

There are only two points to which I want to advert. I gathered from the Minister's statement that the Tourist Board are still seriously interested in the question of development in Dollymount. My understanding of the position is not exactly in line with that view. The Tourist Board were originally interested in the development of the Bull Island at Dollymount and had, I understand, a considerable amount of negotiation with the officials of the city council. But the corporation, having examined the whole position, decided, for a variety of reasons, that they would undertake the development themselves. Plans, in fact, were drawn up for a ring road, making connection with the coast road by means of a bridge at the northern end of the island. Further developments of an extensive character are in view, as far as the development of the island is concerned, with the purpose of ensuring that the citizens of Dublin can have a place of recreation and enjoyment.

The point I want to make in connection with that is, that originally the board decided, apparently, that they would expend a considerable sum of money on the development of that island. In view of the fact that the corporation are now undertaking work which is practically on the same lines and certainly with the same object, I should like to ask the Minister if the funds of the board will be available, by means of a substantial grant to the municipality, for the carrying out of that work.

The board never spends money on a project of that kind unless it can see the prospect of getting its money back with profit. There is no question of a grant. The board might acquire a property and then develop it and then sell the property, or sell sites on the property, to get its money back, but it would have to get its money back.

It would appear then, that any expenditure undertaken by the municipality will be definitely on its own responsibility?

I grant you that it will be, in certain respects, of a revenue-bearing character. In that respect, I understand the board will be interested. I wanted to get the point cleared up because it will be of interest to the committee engaged in that work. The second point that I want to refer to is that made by Deputy Coogan. I should like to ascertain what is the method of approach by the board towards the development of one area against another. I have in mind the health resorts of County Clare, and, as is well known, the three outstanding health resorts there are Kilkee, Lisdoonvarna and Lahinch. As described by the Minister to-day, development has taken place in connection with Lisdoonvarna and it is proposed to undertake development work in connection with Kilkee. I happen to have some knowledge of the district, and, so far as I know, no survey has been made in respect of Lahinch. Lahinch has delightful natural amenities, but, because of neglect for a number of years, the place is gradually assuming an atmosphere of decay. It is a pity that that should be so, because it is a delightful health resort, and there are periods during the season when Kilkee is overcrowded and the natural relief for tourists in the country is obviously Lahinch, but the accommodation there is grossly inadequate. The residents would like to see the board taking up development work there and are somewhat disappointed that positive steps in that direction have not been taken. That brings me to the point of asking what precisely is the basis of the board's approach in respect of one centre as against another? I should like the Minister to tell us.

Do not forget Killaloe, which is in Clare also.

Like other Deputies, I am very interested in this amending Bill. It all depends on how the board will run these hotels and how the various other interests will look after their side of the picture, because if the board does its work in the running of these hotels well and sets an example, it may, in the long run, tend to improve the quality of Irish hotels. I have been trying to picture myself as a tourist coming to Ireland. The first points which such a tourist must consider are how he is to get to Ireland, can he get information on the subject and are the travel facilities to the country and in the country adequate. I am aware that the Minister is very interested in this subject, but I keep coming back to the King Charles's head of Rineanna. Rineanna is a very fine place, very well run, but extremely difficult to get out of and extremely difficult to get into.

The tourist is up against the difficulty that the transatlantic air companies like to have their planes filled with people from Cairo to New York, and to get off at Rineanna is simple enough, but the person who gets off there wants to feel that he stands more than a reasonable chance of getting a seat for the continuation of his journey. That is the difficulty every tourist is up against and I have found myself up against that difficulty quite recently in relation to making a journey from Rineanna.

The other difficulty with regard to Rineanna is the lack of accommodation on the spot. I am not quite sure if the Minister said it is proposed to build a hotel at Rineanna, and I should like to ask him whether the board or the Government definitely intend to build a hotel there, because such a hotel is very necessary. Planes arrive and depart at all hours of the day and night, and if there is a hotel available, a person getting off a plane at 3 o'clock in the morning will certainly avail of it. At present—I presume owing to petrol difficulties—it is very hard for a person who has got off a plane to get a bus from Rineanna. These are temporary difficulties and I imagine they are being dealt with. I mention them merely to show that if we want to build up a tourist trade with the outside world, the ease with which the intending tourist can get into Ireland and get out of it again is of paramount importance.

Anybody who has considered going on a continental holiday, even in peacetime, knows that very often the deciding factors in relation to going to a certain place or certain country are the facilities for getting to it. I am aware that plans are being made for making Dublin a terminal port and for establishing direct communication with the Continent by air and I regard that as a highly important point from the point of view of facilitating the nationals of this country who wish to go abroad on business or pleasure and also from the point of view of the intending tourist coming here. It is always difficult to get on to a plane at any intermediate point on its voyage. That is a difficulty which I think will always exist in connection with aviation.

Aviation at present is the cheapest form of travel which any person can undertake. Whether that position will continue in the future, I do not know, but at present, owing to high prices in all countries for hotel accommodation and meals and the uncertainties of land travel generally, travel by air has become as cheap as travel by train, and a great deal easier and more comfortable. I mention that point lest the House should think I am speaking entirely from the point of view of the wealthy visitor arriving by plane. We are at the dawn of an era in which travel by air will be the cheapest and easiest form of travel for the ordinary citizen and it is from that point of view that I mention the matter of air travel. With regard to our hotels, we have, like many other countries, good hotels, indifferent hotels and, before the word "hotel" was taken from them, I suppose we had bad hotels, and we want to see the Tourist Board doing everything it can to improve our hotel position.

I move the adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.
Barr
Roinn