Perhaps as Deputy O'Sullivan came in at the last minute I had better deal with him first. The question of incremental scales has been under examination and, indeed, some of the other categories of wages have also been under careful examination. It must be remembered, however, that the standstill Order is still in force and that any revision in the matter of wages for the various classes that we have under consideration would involve considerable increases and it will take some time before I will be able to give any definite reply in these matters. Although I indicated last year that I intended to examine this problem, it will be understood that nothing could be done until the standstill Order comes to an end, because the Deputy will appreciate what a reaction it would have on firms in general outside if we were suddenly to plunge into a new set of scales. Therefore, it cannot be done for the present.
I think the Deputy is exaggerating the question of these scales generally for postmen. These are very much desired positions. When persons get into them they give excellent service and, on the whole, they do not seem to be anxious to give them up. Of course, the Deputy emphasised the fact that he was dealing with basic scales. That brings me to the question of bonus, which has to be pointed out. The bonus, of course, did meet the difficulty to a very considerable extent and made the wage a very fair one on the whole. I am sorry Deputy Norton is not here, because I would have liked him to be here when dealing with this matter. Sometimes officials of his organisation have emphasised in public the low wages scales without adverting to the fact that a bonus was paid as well which, I think, was extremely unfair to the Government, because it did not give the full picture. Even if they have a grievance, which in a few cases I do not deny they may have, I think they ought to be fair to the Government. The rate of bonus on the whole has been not ungenerous, having regard to the fact that we have to keep an eye to the general economy. After all, we are the custodians for the taxpayers. It would be easy to be generous towards certain classes in the community and to treat the taxpayers unfairly. We have to try to keep the balance carefully between all classes of the community.
On the question of kiosks, I have already mentioned in my opening statement that we are going to have a very general development of the telephone service all through the country and, of course, we will, as far as possible, use kiosks, because, although they are rather expensive to put up, they give a continuous service. We will put them up wherever possible. The Deputy also raised the question of early deliveries in the city. We have some difficulty about that, because it means that we would have to bring in our staffs very much earlier in the morning. We have been slow about pressing too hard on that matter, but it is one which we will probably have to examine very carefully to see whether we will not have to do it in the course of the next year or so.
Deputy O'Higgins was good enough to express gratitude to the Department for its efficiency and for the promptitude with which it attended to complaints. It is very satisfactory to me to know that, because it is only by public expressions of that sort that one can judge how Government policy is being carried out. On the whole, I think the Department is to be congratulated on the way in which it has carried on, especially during the most difficult period of the emergency. Complaints were made about what is called the primitive and out-of-date conditions in the post offices throughout the country. I am sure everybody realises that, so long as the emergency was there and there was a shortage of supplies and of staff, it was impossible for us to extend any more than we have done. As a matter of fact we did manage to put in a great many more telephones during the year in spite of all our difficulties. Of course there will be a much bigger opening up, as I have already indicated in the Estimate, and I need not go over the ground again. One matter, which I did not mention in my Estimate but which would be implied in what I said, is with regard to night services. That is a matter which we shall have to take into consideration as far as possible throughout the country in order to give as extended telephone services as possible. In a few of the larger centres we shall put in automatic telephones; in other places we shall put in semi-automatic telephones, as they are called; and in other places we shall be obliged to increase our staff to some extent.
Deputy O'Higgins raised the question of Mountrath. That will come under immediate notice for special investigation with the other matters. In a way I am very glad to see this demand for telephones, because it makes things a little bit easier for us. I happened the other day to be looking through a letter that was written by the then secretary of the Post Office in 1907 to a very prominent firm in the Midlands in which he was more or less begging this firm to take a telephone because all the surrounding towns had refused to take the telephone at all. That indicates to some extent the enormous change that has taken place in public opinion in the last 40 years. Now you have people in the most out-of-the-way places, who never dreamt of looking for a telephone, regarding it as a grievance that they have not got it because it is to them to-day a sheer necessity. That is a good thing, because when we know the demand is there we can go out on much broader lines and take the risk—one always has to take a chance in going out and hoping to get a return which will make the service self-sufficient.
Many of those who contributed to the debate referred to the £180,000, or so, of profit that we make. At the same time, it must always be borne in mind that that profit is on our commercial account; that is to say, it takes into consideration the services that are given to the other Departments of Government. They are charged, and rightly so, against the Departments. But, again, it must be remembered that the money is coming out of the tax-payer's pocket, so that we are not exactly making a profit in the sense in which an independent firm makes a profit.
On the question of rural postmen, some of the speakers exaggerated the position very much in regard to them. Really one would be led to the conclusion that these people are very much sweated. That is not true. The temporary part-time postmen are paid on an hourly basis somewhat better than the local wage paid to the agricultural worker. That, of course, is necessary because you cannot have a big disparity between the wage paid to the man who is doing 30 hours a week on postman work and the wage paid to the normal labourer in the locality —the normal rural worker. The idea is, of course, that the temporary part-time postman gets other work to do as well and that he is not entirely dependent on the work of the post office. On the whole it has been our experience that they are a very satisfied class. We cannot, of course, burk the fact that the cost of living at the present time is a headache to everybody. It is impossible to calculate exactly what is a fair wage to give people, having regard to the fluctuations in the cost of living. That is a matter that we have only been able to deal with so far by giving a bonus. We shall have to keep watching that situation. In spite of the violent protestations made to the Minister we have to keep an eye on the taxpayer as well as on the individuals who are in receipt of the wages.
Many of the Deputies in the House raised individual questions which would be better raised with the Department and which could be dealt with by the Department in a more satisfactory way. Deputy Blowick made a suggestion with regard to the colour of the uniforms. He said that dark blue is not suitable in the country districts and he advocated a greenish-grey, or some such colour, which would not soil so quickly. We shall have the matter of the colour examined into to see whether there is anything in the suggestion or not. He asked me what I meant when I said he was "bullying" some postmaster. The point I wished to make is this: when an appointment of any sort is being made it is most undesirable that representations should be made direct to any of the officials concerned, or that any attempt should be made to find out what the official's advice is to the Minister, because it puts the official into an extremely awkward position and could easily have an intimidating effect upon an individual in an isolated country place if a person in the important position of a Deputy goes and speaks to an official in a severe manner or tries to influence him. The person whom he should try to influence is the Minister, and nobody else. That is why, in the case of Deputy Blowick, I wanted to warn Deputies against wrong procedure in dealing with matters of that sort.
Deputy Kennedy raised the question of Mullingar. Mullingar, from the telephone point of view, is a bottleneck at present and we shall have to deal with that when we put down more carrier cables. Mullingar happens to be the centre between the East and West and it presents us with a problem which shall have to be dealt with as soon as possible. He also mentioned the position with regard to postal deliveries in that area. That, too, will receive very careful consideration and attention.
Deputy Heskin mentioned the pillar box at Ballysaggart. I intend to look after that matter. He also complained about Ballyduff. I shall have that examined.
Deputy Mrs. Redmond referred to Grange and Ardmore. Being a T.D. for that area myself, I am well aware of the difficulties there; but, like many of our other difficulties, it is due to shortage of supplies, and will receive consideration in due course.
Deputy Roddy and Deputy Norton raised the question of buildings—Sligo and several others. All these are due to the shortage of supplies, as the House already knows very well. The question of building supplies is one which has to be dealt with on the basis of priority. In every case I found, on looking at the records—I do not propose to go into details now—that we are either at the stage of making very definite plans and working with the Board of Works on them, or else we are actually ready to start building as soon as we get supplies, or else entering into agreements to extend the premises. In any case, there is no absence of activity in that respect. At the same time, I propose in the Department to devote a separate section to building in order to deal with this building problem as expeditiously as possible. It is going to be a pretty big problem in the coming years. I am now going to divert some of my best men to that work in order to get on with the work as quickly as possible. We fully realise the importance of the position, not merely because of the emergency which held up everything for so many years past, but also because the country is now beginning to develop at a pretty rapid rate and we want, if anything, to be ahead with our work.
Deputy Norton mentioned Pearse Street Post Office which, considering everything, is not in very bad condition. It will be a sad day for Deputy Norton when it is rebuilt because I do not know what he will then have to talk about on the Estimate. It has been a kind of "King Charles's head" to him in every Estimate that I have been connected with up to this.
Deputy O'Leary raised the question of Enniscorthy. Last year he raised it and we examined it and found there was nothing in the complaint, that there was adequate staff and that the work was being got through. It is true that the various payments that have to be made must be spread over the whole week, some taken on one day of the week and others on other days, and I suppose, in the case of some of the payments, the office is crowded. There is no doubt about it that the payment of children's allowances has added enormously to our work but, with the course of time, I am sure it will straighten itself out and that we will be able to get the work into a more satisfactory condition.
In regard to the complaints about the rates of pay, we are going very carefully into the whole question of the payment of sub-postmasters and of the scales and unit rating and when the proposals have been put to the Department of Finance I hope to be able to come back with reasonable improvement in all these matters.
Deputy Pattison raised the question of Irishtown, Kilkenny. That is a matter that I would rather was not raised because I do not want to enter into discussion of the merits of the different people whom he and other people suggested should be appointed, because it is not fair to them, but I could easily satisfy him, in private conversation, that the choice made was not an unreasonable choice. It is not fair to act on the rumour that some Fianna Fáil club made suggestions that so-and-so should be appointed. Any representations that anybody, especially a Deputy, makes to me are taken into consideration together with all the representations of the officials of the Department and the appointment is made accordingly. To sneer at any political organisation is in itself a very undesirable thing. I might answer back and talk about some group of Clann na Talmhan, or the Labour Party, or others, who also made suggestions, but I do not think that is a reasonable line of country. Personally, I have great respect for my own organisation, naturally enough. I think the Fianna Fáil organisation is the backbone of the Government and the Government is the Government which has protected us through the years and, for that reason, I am proud of the organisation which keeps the Government in existence. I often look back, when a question is raised about a particular post office, to see what I have done and I am often surprised to find how unbiassed I have been in the appointments made and wonder whether I was right or not.
