asked the Taoiseach if his attention has been drawn to a speech delivered by the Minister for External Affairs at a recent debate in the Rathmines Town Hall, in which he is reported as having said: "We must start under the premises that no human being had the right to take human life, be it on behalf of the State or on behalf of an individual. The State was a group of people who happened to be elected, or seized power, or somehow got control of the Government of the country, and if they claimed because they so happened to have power in their hands that they were entitled to take life, then inevitably other groups in other countries, and even in their own country, would make a similar claim"; whether, in view of the divergence of these opinions from the fundamental laws governing the nature of the State and its inherent right to take life in accordance with law, he will dissociate the Government from such opinions; and if he will state the Government's attitude to the public expression of such views by its individual members, having regard to the doctrine of collective responsibility of Ministers.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Minister's Speech at Rathmines.
I have seen Press reports of the speech referred to in the Deputy's question; these reports were, of necessity, abbreviated reports of the remarks made by the Minister, and the passages quoted must not be taken out of their context. The Minister made it perfectly clear at the outset that he was not speaking as a member of the Government, but was expressing his own personal views. I do not feel called upon, therefore, to make any further statement in the matter.
I understand that the Taoiseach's apologia is based upon the fact that Tweedledum and Tweedledee are separate persons. Would he be good enough to tell the House and the country when his Ministers are Tweedledum and when they are Tweedledee? When they are Tweedledum, are they speaking as members of the Government with collective responsibility; and when they are Tweedledee are they speaking as individuals divorced from their positions as members of the Government?
When are ex-Ministers Tweedledum or Tweedledee?
They are never one or the other. They are always speaking for themselves, as representatives. I am asking the Taoiseach to answer that question. Was the Minister for External Affairs Tweedledum or Tweedledee in this case?
I do not think I am called upon to answer that question.
Does the Taoiseach wish to convey to the country that Ministers have a right to divest themselves of collective responsibility whenever they are speaking?
The Deputy may rest assured that the Government and each member of the Government is fully aware of the theory——
It is more than a theory.
——and the practice of collective responsibility; and neither the Deputy nor any person in the House can be clearer in that respect.
Does the Taoiseach represent that the requirements of the Constitution are mere theories not to be honoured in practice?
Certainly not.
Are the obligations?
Certainly.
By what process does a Minister divest himself of the obligation of being collectively responsible to his colleagues for every public pronouncement that he makes as Minister?
God help your colleagues.
Will the Taoiseach arrange to have some signal given, such as the flying of a flag over Government Buildings, whenever a Minister is speaking in a manner in which he is expected to be taken seriously?