Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Oct 1949

Vol. 118 No. 1

Private Deputies' Business. - Recreation Grounds for Athletes—Motion.

I move the following motion standing in my name:—

That Dáil Éireann is of opinion that recreation grounds for athletes and the encouragement of physical culture should be provided for youths and adults.

I have extreme confidence that the consideration of this motion will receive the sympathetic approval of the House. In the course of many discussions which have been inaugurated here, recognition has been given for the necessity of providing for the education of people, of safeguarding their health, of promoting schemes for the improvement of social conditions and for supplying assistance and encouragement to voluntary efforts to aid in the achievement of these ends. While commendable progress has been made to assuage social conditions, all too common in this country, it must be admitted that much remains to be done, and that the State has failed to provide adequate facilities to counter the dangers which threaten, and often overcome, the morale of growing children, and indeed, of adults. While the State has provided reasonably well for all these necessities, it has neglected sadly to provide recreational facilities for growing children and for adults.

Experts in the education of children and those charged with their correction are all agreed that a very common cause of juvenile deliquency is the failure to provide for youths the necessary means for playing games. In the absence of any facilities of this nature, it is quite natural for a child, who must have an outlet for the expenditure of his physical energy, to commit, possibly, petty offences, and, if unrestrained, to progress gradually until a career of crime seems to be the only goal open to the child. In this process of degradation the unfortunate youth develops an abnormal mental attitude more or less characterised by a state of bravado which, unfortunately, is but a perversion of the great attribute of fortitude. What a different story of such a boy might be told if, instead of using his physical energies in destructive activities, he had the opportunity of indulging in some form of athletics and recreational exercises? Generally, it is accepted that athletics must be regarded as a corollary to the development of mental education.

Apart altogether from the strength which comes as a result of physical activities, there develops in the mind of the growing child a certain sense of rivalry which is thoroughly unselfish and which breeds respect for those with whom he may come in competition. The development of such an attitude of mind in such a child must be accepted as one of the greatest blessings which would come to a child in the development of its character but, generally speaking, except in cases where a child is at a boarding-school, the opportunity for the development of physical activities in the child are absent.

True, voluntary effort has supplied, and continues to supply, the means by which the growing youth may enjoy the pleasure of physical competition with his rivals. Apart altogether from the personal comfort which can come through a well-regulated form of athletics in this or in any other country, it is now generally recognised, and it is of the highest importance, that in international contests a nation is sometimes judged by the performance of its representatives in international games. Certainly pre-eminence in competitions adds to the prestige of the nation and also it may happen that when there is failure to achieve pre-eminence, there is often a certain glory in defeat. In success or failure the prestige of the nation can be secured by the presence of its athletes competing against other nations.

In this country existing conditions for the provision of athletics are indeed disgraceful. Were it not for the voluntary effort of which I have spoken, playing fields would be at a discount. It would be terrible to contemplate what might have happened if the limited accommodation which is now available were not, such as it is, at the disposal of the youth of the country. What opportunity has a young child in the slums of Dublin, under conditions which sometimes are as appalling as can be imagined, to take his place in any form of athletic competition? What opportunity has he to develop his physical energies unless by playing football in some back lane and receiving from some authority an order to refrain and to go elsewhere?

There are thousands of these children who never see a playing field until they reach the age of maturity. They have never had an opportunity to exercise their physical energies and, if they had, it might be of a nature which would not commend itself to society. Not only have the children in the slums no opportunity of playing games, but in the country the difficulty of getting fields is sometimes insuperable. That condition prevails even in County Dublin where it is impossible for enthusiastic youths to obtain recreation grounds. Any appeal which they may make to authoritative sources up to now has been unsuccessful.

In Scotland all games are catered for at a very reasonable cost. There is no hurling in Scotland, but there is shinty, I believe, and as regards games of the more robust type, like football, not only are they catered for but, where children who are not of a robust stature or robust physique are concerned, they can play golf, tennis, cricket and any other game they like for a very modest charge. One of the finest golf courses in the world, which was at one time the centre of an open championship— the golf course at Braid Hills, outside Edinburgh—was available to any citizen at a cost of ninepence. I cannot understand why our Government, which is so alive to the necessity for the provision of social services, education and health services, should fail to appreciate the necessity for the encouragement of physical culture. From a health point of view it cannot be denied that physical culture is a very essential attribute in the development of the child. The Fianna Fáil Government voted a sum of money for athletics. It was a small sum of some £20,000 odd, but it was at least a step in the right direction. It was not intended to provide playing fields throughout the country. It was earmarked towards assisting in the provision of a cinder track in Dublin. No matter how one looks at it, it was a gesture of encouragement towards voluntary effort and for that reason it merits sincere approbation. It is a pity the present Government did not make some provision, even in a small way, for the encouragement of athletics generally. It is not possible to estimate the benefits that might have followed as a result of the investment of this £20,000 odd in athletics. Certainly that sum, small as it was, showed an appreciation of the necessity for the encouragement of physical culture.

I appeal to the present Government to follow the lead that was given to it. I would suggest that, as well as provision for outdoor games, something should be done too towards providing accommodation for indoor games and physical culture generally particularly in country areas. The cost of equipping boxing rings or halls for physical culture would be comparatively negligible. I think the Fianna Fáil Government realised that this would be so and that voluntary efforts would more than compensate them for the monetary encouragement they gave. I hope that this motion will receive the consideration and attention it deserves. The Minister for Local Government is himself acquainted with the benefits of athletics and physical culture and I hope that he will consider seriously the advisability of inquiring into the possibility of giving effect to the terms of this motion.

I second the motion.

I would like to say a few words on this particular motion because it affords me an opportunity of dealing with the situation as regards playgrounds in portion of my own constituency. I refer to the Crumlin-Drimnagh area. Generally speaking, I am in whole-hearted agreement with the principles laid down in this motion, but I do not believe the obstacles and the cost are quite so negligible as Deputy Dr. Brennan suggests. I agree that properly directed voluntary effort throughout the country in the sphere of athletics would reduce the necessity for a continual drain on the Exchequer in order to subsidise the accommodation or facilities provided once the initial expenditure had been met. Whether it is the laying out of a football field or hurling pitch or the provision of an indoor boxing ring, I believe that voluntary effort and local enthusiasm would obviate the necessity for a continuous drain on the Exchequer once the initial expenditure is undertaken. I think it is wrong, however, to suggest that the cost would be negligible if the Government were to set about this problem in the way suggested by the Deputy.

The Deputy who proposed the motion did mention, and I think it is perfectly true, that the sum proposed by the Fianna Fáil Government of, I think, £24,000, was merely a token proposal. I consider that £24,000 these days is quite a large sum, and if £24,000 is considered merely as a token I should like to have some idea of what the cost would be to put into full operation the ideas which Deputy Dr. Brennan has regarding this motion. As I say, I think the idea is certainly a good one and one which would commend itself to this House. But I think, also, that there is a time and place for everything and that all costs by way of new schemes, and so forth, should not be borne by the country at the moment. It may be that the House would generally approve of the principles of this motion, but feel that now would not be the time to indulge in further expenditure by the State, which must mean increases in taxation. However, I merely pointed that out as one point of view which, I think, would be my point of view in relation to this motion. There are other difficulties, in so far as the City of Dublin is concerned at any rate, and one is the difficulty of finding suitable open spaces which are not required for the housing programme. My experience is that, in most areas in the City of Dublin, if there is an open space suitable for outdoor sports the residents in that locality immediately agitate with the Minister for Local Government and the Dublin Corporation that that piece of property should be acquired for housing purposes. It is certainly a problem for the Dublin Corporation and the Minister for Local Government to decide as between the needs of the housing programme, on the one hand, and what are undoubtedly the needs of the youths and young people of a particular area for recreational facilities, on the other hand. I am talking now in rather general terms but I can assure Deputy Dr. Brennan that that has been my experience in at least two districts in the City of Dublin where there is warfare going on between the two bodies of opinion.

One body of opinion feel that a particular field should be taken over and acquired by the corporation for housing purposes. Another body of opinion feel that it should be left as an open space to be used by the children of the neighbourhood. What I should like to draw to the Minister's attention in connection with this motion is the fact that in the Crumlin and Drimnagh area there are three playing fields provided by the corporation at the moment and, in regard to two of them, they have been in use during the last summer season. I, together with other representatives of the area, had an opportunity of inspecting it. I have no hesitation in saying that they are in a most scandalous state of disrepair. In that area a number of individuals have banded themselves together to try to remedy some of the matters to which Deputy Dr. Brennan referred— the difficulty of young children and youths playing football, hurling, and so forth, on the streets and being summoned by the Gardaí for doing that. The Gardaí are doing their duty in summoning them because, very often, private property is damaged by these young people when they are playing in the streets. But, in order to utilise the grounds that were available and in order to do it in a way which would give these children some interest in utilising the grounds provided, people got together and started a system of street leagues in soccer, gaelic and hurling. I do not know quite the number of teams that enter for the leagues but it is very considerable. These teams play their games on the Sunday of each week. It is really pitiful to go up and watch one of the games because there is practically no grass whatever in the fields provided. There does not seem to be any effort made to keep them in condition. I see that there are difficulties in the way and that there are excuses which can be put up, namely, that the fields are practically pavements now, that these spaces are used so much that they are practically in continuous use and that, consequently, they must deteriorate. One way of getting over that difficulty would be to adopt Deputy Dr. Brennan's suggestion of making more space available but, unfortunately, in planning the housing scheme that was not taken into consideration. Apparently it was decided that these two or three spaces were sufficient. The size of the area to which I am referring shows that they are not sufficient. I would urge on the Minister that he might draw this matter to the attention of his town planners when new areas are being built up—these new housing schemes—and ask them to see to it that in those areas adequate provision is made for these outdoor recreational facilities.

I cannot remember by name the two fields to which I have been referring, but I am quite sure that the Minister will not have any difficulty in having them identified through the Dublin Corporation. There is a third in Benmadigan Road. There is a very big space there. Apparently it had been a dump. For some years past the children of the neighbourhood were permitted to enter and play there. The field is not level enough for any organised game, but it was certainly useful for the purpose of enabling the young children of the area to play there. It was particularly suitable for that purpose, because it has high railings all round it and the children are completely protected from the danger of playing on the street, and so forth. For some reason that I cannot understand, the Dublin Corporation put locks on the gates of this particular field last summer and compelled the children to play out in the street, if they wanted to play at all. I made inquiries about it in the corporation at the time. I understand that the reason for the locks was probably that the corporation were intending to do something about the levelling out of the ground so that it would be fit for football pitches, and so forth. However, I still cannot understand why it was necessary to put up the barricades for two or three months, or more, before they undertook the necessary work on this particular site.

I have been referring, so far, to the question of outdoor facilities. There is the other question, namely, the question of indoor recreational facilities in built-up areas in Dublin. I am concerning myself at the moment with Dublin City only. It is surprising that the town planners, in building the new housing schemes, appear to have made no provision whatever for anything in the nature of parish halls or local halls of that description.

Again, I would suggest to the Minister that, in any of the new schemes now being undertaken or about to be undertaken, some effort should be made by those responsible for planning the scheme to see that each scheme is adequately provided with some sort of local hall for the entertainment purposes of the residents. I cannot at the moment think of any hall which was erected the same time as a new housing scheme was being put up. Certainly in the case of the Crumlin, Drimnagh, Kimmage area, and I think also in other new areas—Donnyearney and Cabra—ever since the schemes have been started, local parish priests or other people interested in parochial work of that sort have been endeavouring to get sites from the corporation, to raise funds and to go ahead and erect these halls themselves.

While I say that, I agree that there is another difficulty involved. It is a difficulty that arises in case of outdoor facilities as well. That is the difficulty of supervision, the difficulty of knowing what is the proper authority to have charge of a hall that is erected. Some people feel that these halls should be erected solely as parish halls under the control and active supervision of the clergy of the parish. Another body of opinion feels that that is wrong, that some management committee composed of representatives of the clergy and of the parishioners should jointly have charge of these halls. However, that is a purely academic question if the halls do not exist. I think it will be generally agreed that some type of hall is necessary and if the halls are erected at the same time as housing schemes, then the question of supervision is not an insoluble one at all.

I was glad to hear Deputy Dr. Brennan refer to the question of golf courses as well. I am almost afraid to mention this in view of the agitation that is going on in some quarters at the moment against those members of the Dublin Corporation who feel that the city council should have power to operate a producer-consumer market. From time to time the suggestion has come up that there should be in this city a municipal golf course in order to cater for those who feel that they cannot afford to play on the golf courses at present in existence. I should like to have that question at least examined to see if it is practical and, if it could be carried out, what the cost of the proposal would be. Golf is a game in which people from all walks of life have excelled. Some of our Irish golfers who have gone abroad and won fame for themselves and for this country certainly did not start life as millionaires. It is not the amount of money a person has in his pocket or in his bank that makes him a good or a bad golfer. There is no doubt that, in the arena of national sport, golf for a considerable time past has played a very major part, and it is a game that is attracting the attention of sportsmen in this country and all over the world for a considerable number of years. As I say, we in Ireland have produced some of the world's finest golfers; we have done that consistently, and particularly in the last decade. This year and last year Irish golfers have proved themselves equal to the best golfers produced by any country in the world. I think that we should encourage that kind of sport just as much as ordinary athletic contests. I should like to see the Minister at least looking into the question of seeing whether anything along that line could be done. I do not think there is anything further I want to say on the motion except that generally speaking, I do agree with the principle of the motion and I should like to have some estimate of the cost of giving effect to the various suggestions that were made by the Deputy who proposed the motion and that will be made by Deputies who may speak later.

The first ray of hope emitted by the inter-Party Government has been the decision to get the Minister for Local Government to answer in this debate. A man with his rugged athletic past will surely be sympathetic to any proposal for the development of athletics. As Minister for Local Government, I wish he would take note particularly of what Deputy O'Higgins said in regard to the provision of playing fields and recreation grounds wherever housing schemes are being started, particularly in congested areas like Dublin, Limerick and Cork. I also agree with Deputy O'Higgins's view that the Government should not indulge in any wild spending in regard to the development of athletics. I would say in that regard that instead of a proposal to spend £25,000, we should have a token Vote of £10 but I do think that if the Government would provide a sum of roughly £25,000 a year, it would not be too much of an imposition on the taxpayers and it could be spent with very good effect in the country.

I agree with the motion in so far as it refers to the provision of recreation grounds for athletics but I did not like to hear Deputy Dr. Brennan talking about physical culture. Physical culture is always associated in my mind with dumb-bells and when I look with sadness on the Government Benches I think we have sufficient dumb-bells at the moment.

There is only one on your benches at the moment —yourself.

That is O.K. To travel from dumb-bells to golf, a countryman like myself has not a tremendous appreciation of golf. I heard it said many years ago that the main feature of golf was the balls—the lost balls during the game and the highballs afterwards. I think highballs would have a very poor effect in the development of athletics. I think that instead of dealing with dumb-bells, every form of athletic development should be a recreation. It should be associated with fun rather than the making of repetitive motions to develop the biceps. In regard to the proposal that was made here when Fianna Fáil had control of the Government, the idea was to make some provision towards the development and encouragement of field and track athletics. Team games are fairly well organised in this country. The associations running them are in a reasonably strong financial position and they do not need any particular encouragement because a team game will always produce a "gate". As to the development of field and track athletics, it is unfortunately true that nowadays sports meetings do not attract the people in the same way that team games do and for that reason these do need certain encouragement. It takes a certain mentality to be of any use or to enjoy oneself when associated with others in a team. It needs certain qualities which every man has not got. There is the type of heavy man like the weight thrower, and there is the light boned sprinter and they have not the qualities, physically or perhaps mentally, to make them effective in team games.

The real reason that I was anxious about the development of field and track athletics was that I feel there is a tremendous amount of athletic talent in the country which is not being catered for by team games. I am not particularly concerned with the provision of facilities for the making of champions. Champions are natural athletes but, if you give the facilities or help needed, the champion will emerge from the ruck and that will have the effect of creating enthusiasm amongst others. In Cork, Tipperary and Limerick, where you have good hurling teams, there is no necessity to try to enthuse the young fellows in regard to hurling. Among the roughnecks of Limerick City, where you have international rugby players, there is not a shadow of necessity to enthuse the young fellows of the city to play rugby. If you have a really first-class athlete and champion, he attracts around him a ring of young fellows who want to try to emulate him and you get that participation which is good for the country.

I saw some spectacular sum mentioned the other day by the Minister for Health which is proposed to be utilised for the provision of hospitals. There would be less need for all that money being utilised through such a provision if we could spend a little in trying to encourage the young people of the country to engage in athletics. There has not been any specific proposal made to-night, but I do think that if the proposal made by me in December, 1947, was examined by the Minister he will find that there is real reason in it. The amount proposed is not large and it could come before the Dáil next year or the year after if there was a necessity for doing anything further.

There is a real need for trying to get the minds of the young generation away from many forms of amusement they now indulge in and back to the more rugged out-door games. I think we could lessen the length of the queues at the cinemas and reduce the number of dollars we pay to Hollywood if we could do something about encouraging the children towards a love of athletics.

I am convinced that this tremendous urge towards cinema going is having a detrimental effect on the health of the young people. I am not very familiar with the position in the city, but I know that the country is dotted with dance halls—tin shacks and other erections which are draughty and without proper conveniences. Young people, lightly clad, go into these places, get into a perspiration and are affected by the draughts there or go out into the cold afterwards. I think that has a great deal to do with the incidence of tuberculosis we hear so much about. If we could wean these people away from indulging in that form of amusement by the encouragement of athletics, we would be doing a good thing for the country.

I am also, like Deputy O'Higgins, concerned for national prestige. Any way that the fame or the name of this country can be raised in the estimation of other nations—I want to encourage that. I think that the Army jumping team, which is coming into its own again, has done as much to raise the prestige of this country as any other activity indulged in. Not merely has it done that, but it has had a good economic effect on the agricultural community in this country. I think that we have the best natural athletes in the world—I know we had before specialised training took such a turn in other countries—and that if we gave a slight encouragement towards the development of these athletes they would be a credit and a valuable asset to the country.

The Minister for Local Government can do certain things, particularly in regard to the provision of recreation and athletic grounds wherever housing schemes are being proceeded with. Deputy Brennan spoke about young fellows kicking football in a back lane. They get an awful lot of amusement out of it and, except for the danger from traffic, I think they are as well off there as anywhere else. Nevertheless, when they grow bigger, it is very difficult to find room for them in the lanes or streets.

There is, I understand, in Dublin City a large estate owned by the corporation called St. Anne's. Having walked over that place, it seems to me that it would be unwise to cover it completely with houses. There should be some definite room provided there for playing fields. I am not entirely prejudiced against foreign games. I do think that one development we should have at St. Anne's and, wherever possible, near congested areas, is a number of tennis courts, both hard and grass courts. That is a form of activity which our young girls can participate in and they would be much better off playing tennis than in cinemas or dance halls. I know that the Minister would be sympathetic towards that.

While there was a little cold water thrown on it in Deputy O'Higgins' speech, I know that he is not opposed to this idea. I should like the Minister to examine it carefully, because it is a good proposition. Something ought to be done about it. It will not cost much annually. I agree that the money should be carefully spent, not thrown away, that there should be a good deal of voluntary effort and that the Government should only be asked to bear the mere pump-priming cost, but I think that they should do that.

Mr. A. Byrne

I congratulate Deputy Dr. Brennan on having put this motion on the Order Paper and I hope the Government and local authorities will join in doing something in regard to it.

I do not think there is any city that has done so little as Dublin for youth in this matter. Frequent applications are made to another authority of which I am a member for allocations for sites for playing fields. I agree with the last speaker that these should be provided in the case of all housing schemes. The Minister should be in a position to confer power on local authorities to acquire sites for playing fields when they are taking steps to proceed with large housing schemes. I agree with what the last speaker said about facilities being provided for the ladies to play tennis. In that connection, I hope that the ladies who play camogie will not be forgotten, and that they will be provided with suitable pitches. I know myself that up to 100 football teams have made application to the local authority for grounds in which to play their games. The last speaker referred to St. Anne's estate. I really forget what the future of it is to be, and whether any decision has been taken about it, but I hope that those who play gaelic, soccer, hurling and other games will not be forgotten by the Dublin Town Planning authority when a final decision is being taken about that estate.

We have a really fine sportsfield in Dublin about which one hears very little. I refer to Fairview Park where provision has been made for football and hurling grounds. That park was provided by the Dublin Corporation. Apart from the amenities which are available there for women and children and others who like to take recreation there, there is a fine area set aside for the playing of games. I think it would be a good thing if, with the Minister's approval, local authorities had more power to enable them to provide sites for the playing fields. Talking about football, I wonder if many Deputies have heard of the O'Toole's, a very famous team which we have here in Dublin. It is a team which has brought honour and fame to a parish in the North Wall area from which the members are drawn. In conclusion, I again express the hope that the Minister will be pleased to confer power on municipal authorities to enable them to acquire grounds for the provision of playing fields.

Some time last year I asked the Minister for Health to consider the question of setting up a national body that would deal with sporting activities. At the time he could not see his way to do so. I am of opinion that if we are to develop the youth of the country we must start with them during their schooldays. In my opinion, there must be co-ordination between several Departments of State if the physique of our youth is to be properly developed. There should be co-ordination in that direction between the Department of Education, the Department of Health and the ecclesiastical authorities in charge of the schools under the control of a national board, and finally, of course, under the Department of Local Government which would be the authority to provide playing pitches and other amenities such as swimming pools. I am sure that my colleagues, Deputy Dr. Brennan and Deputy Fitzpatrick, would agree with that. I trust that the Minister will give consideration to the few points that I have mentioned.

I am very pleased to have this opportunity of saying a few words in support of the excellent motion put down by Deputy Dr. Brennan and Deputy Fitzpatrick. There is no doubt at all but that recreation grounds are required all over the country. I had hoped, in my younger days that when the division of land was taking place provision would have been made for recreation grounds in the vicinity of all our national schools throughout the country. I think it desirable and essential that such playing grounds should be made available for youth so that they could indulge in healthy outdoor recreation in the long evenings and during week-ends. The one great organisation that has developed outdoor athletics is the Gaelic Athletic Association. It was founded for the purpose of providing facilities for athletics from the national point of view.

Where schemes are fostered by the Minister for Local Government and his Department there ought to be provision made for recreation grounds. Deputy Byrne made reference to Fairview Park. In the vicinity of that park we have the Marino housing scheme, one of the finest of its kind in the world. Under that scheme recreation grounds were provided, but during the emergency some of them were acquired and were used, and are still being used for other purposes. No blame is to be attached to the Minister or to his Department in regard to the use of these grounds, but undoubtedly such fine recreation grounds as you have there in that area ought to be available solely for athletics and other forms of recreation. I think that, in the case of all big housing schemes, provision ought to be made for recreation grounds so that opportunities will be available for the youth of the country to engage in athletics. I move the adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.
Barr
Roinn