asked the Minister for Defence if he will state and specify the proposals for the protection of civilians against air raids in the event of a future emergency which have been formulated by his Department and referred to by the Minister for Finance in reply to Question No. 53 on the Order Paper for the 7th December, 1950.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Civil Defence Arrangements.
Major de Valera
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state (a) whether any local authorities have exercised any function, power or duty under Part II of the Air Raid Precautions Act, 1939, since 1947, and, if so, what local authorities; and (b) whether he has exercised since 1947 any power or duty to be performed after consultation with the Minister for Local Government or the Minister for Health, conferred by the said Act; and, if so, in relation to what matters.
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state (a) whether any essential undertakers as defined by the Air Raid Precautions Act, 1939, have, since 1947, exercised any function, power or duty conferred under Part III of the said Act, and, if so, what essential undertakers; and (b) whether he has exercised since 1947 any power or duty conferred upon him by Part III of the said Act; and, if so, in relation to what matters.
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state (a) the total number of military personnel, and (b) the total number of civilian personnel in his Department allotted to and at present engaged upon the preparation of plans and proposals for civil defence in the event of an emergency and the total of such personnel allotted for civil defence organisation and administration generally.
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state (a) the number of persons in the Red Cross, St. John Ambulance Brigade and Knights of Malta organisations, (b) the total number of persons, (c) the total number of instructors, respectively, trained and available for civil defence and A.R.P. duties in the Cities of Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford, respectively.
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state whether he has had any consultations with the chairman and executive of the Red Cross Society and the city and county managers during the years 1949 and 1950; and, if so, on what dates, and when he proposes meeting them as stated in his reply to Question No. 41 on the Order Paper for Thursday, 7th December, 1950.
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state whether any emergency supplies and stocks of (a) medical and surgical requisites and equipment; (b) civil defence protective clothing and equipment; (c) fire fighting and rescue equipment, and (d) gas and radioactive contamination detection equipment, have been purchased and delivered since 1948, giving particulars in each case, and whether any arrangements have recently been made for securing further supplies.
Major de Valera
asked the Minister for Defence if he will state whether any plans or provisions have been made for the protection of Dublin's water supply in the event of a future war emergency and whether he has had any consultations with the city manager with a view to providing for this matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle I propose to take Deputy de Valera's Questions Nos. 47 to 54, inclusive, together.
An overall plan for the civil defence arrangements in this country has not yet been finally completed. Before this can be done I am awaiting advice and recommendations from personnel of my Department who are proceeding next month on courses of training in England which will cover the most up-to-date arrangements which are being adopted or proposed there for the purposes of civilian defence. My Department has been endeavouring for a considerable time past to secure vacancies on such courses. The earliest vacancies which could be secured were those which I referred to in my reply to the Deputy's questions on the 7th instant. The first of the courses will begin on the 1st January, 1951, and the last will begin on the 29th January, 1951. The information which will be obtained by these officers will be applied to our conditions here in connection with the drawing up of an overall civil defence plan. When this plan has been completed and approved any consequential amendments which may be necessary in our A.R.P. legislation will come before the Oireachtas. I will then be in a position to convey fuller information with regard to the specific matters raised in the Deputy's questions.
I am also awaiting information as to the latest types of civil defence equipment which have been officially adopted in England and which could be made available for use in connection with our schemes in so far as they might be suitable therefor and I am making arrangements to secure supplies of such equipment.
I have arranged to see the chairman of the Red Cross Society on next Monday, 18th instant, and have asked the city and county managers to meet me on the following Wednesday.
The foregoing statement will, I think, indicate why I am not answering the Deputy's questions in detail.
Major de Valera
The Minister has lumped a number of questions together. Taking Question No. 47, does the Minister mean that he has no plans completed? I take it from his answer that that is so. I take it from the Minister's answer to Question No. 48 that nothing has been done under Part II of the Act. I take it from the Minister's answer to Question No. 49 in regard to essential undertakers that nothing has been done in regard to Part III of the Act. I take it from the Minister's reply in regard to Question No. 50 that he is not in a position to disclose the total number of personnel allocated to these classes that I have asked. If that is so, I would like to ask the Minister whether any personnel have been allotted to this important task. With regard to Question No. 51, I take it from the Minister's answer that he has no information wherewith to answer that question. Am I right in that?
I will answer all those supplementaries together.
Major de Valera
I take it, in regard to Question No. 52, that prior to this date the Minister has had no consultations with either the Red Cross or with county managers. I would be glad to be corrected in that. Regarding Question No. 53, since this Government came into office, since 1948, no arrangements have been made for securing equipment as yet, nor has any been delivered. If I am wrong in that, what has been done? I think the Minister included Question No. 54. I take it from the Minister's reply that no steps have been taken to deal with the protection of Dublin's water supply.
Could the Minister say, in answer to the general range of questions put by Deputy de Valera, if it is not possible for his Department to make certain preliminary arrangements and certain preliminary efforts to bring up to date A.R.P. defence while personnel are away on courses?
I doubt if I remember all the Deputy's supplementary questions. There is a long string of them.
Major de Valera
I merely repeated the questions.
My idea in giving a comprehensive consolidated reply was out of courtesy to the Deputy. I did not want to give partial information at the time when we were awaiting fuller information in order to develop a set plan. Most European countries advise us that the civil defence organisation appropriate to the last emergency would not be suitable for the possible coming emergency. We are trying to get, and we hope to get, within the next few weeks up-to-date information, so that we will not start off on the wrong foot and then have to change step.
With regard to A.R.P. strength and A.R.P. personnel, the whole air raid precautions organisation of this country was disbanded in 1946 as a result of a firm Government decision taken in 1945. They were disbanded. They are gone. They must be resurrected again. Now, it is not reasonable to ask me the strength of an organisation which was disbanded some years ago. That was one of the questions asked here.
Another question, or rather presumption, was that I had no interviews with the Red Cross, with the chairman or executive of the Red Cross. I did not give day and date of such interviews. There have been a number, but the one important interview in connection with the re-establishment of the whole lay-out of civil defence will take place next Monday.
With regard to the strength of organisations such as the Knights of Malta and St. John Ambulance Association, they are not Government Departments. In reply to the Deputy's question, I took steps to inquire as to their strength. I did not get a reply by return and I propose to convey the information to the Deputy when I get it. If I were dealing with a Government Department, I could get a reply by return of post. I have conveyed the Deputy's queries to those organisations and the day I get the reply, as to strength, it will go to the Deputy. I think the Deputy knows that all those organisations propose a big recruiting drive to start next month.
Major de Valera
The Minister will appreciate that the international situation has been deteriorating for over two years. Is he aware that, early in 1948, the Scandinavian countries sounded the alarm and that, in the fall of 1948, the British reversed engines? Some of us have been pressing the Minister since, and that is the reason we are pressing him now. Two years have slipped by and nothing has apparently as yet been done in this situation.
I am aware that the international situation was more menacing in 1946 and 1947 than in 1948 and 1949.
Major de Valera
I will not agree with that.
I do not expect the Deputy to agree with me except very rarely, but I am asked for my view and I am entitled to give it. Information reaching us was not of a disturbing nature until lately, but the situation was menacing when the air raid shelters were being blasted and removed by the Government which preceded this Government.
Mr. de Valera
There is not one in the country would pay any attention to that.
Major de Valera
You have had three years to mend that situation and you did nothing. That is the answer.
I did not interrupt the Deputy. The Deputy is very comfortable when on a platform but when being replied to he is the most irritable Deputy in Dáil Éireann. I found myself bereft of all this civil defence organisation by the hurried and premature decisions of the previous Government to disband the whole lot.
And you have done nothing about it since. Admit it and be done with it, and let us get on with the work.
Will the Deputy just mind his own dunghill and keep out of others?
The country is the concern of all of us.
Ever since then, we have been producing and producing in this country, and trying to keep the people producing, so as to prepare for an emergency.
The mythical war, the Taoiseach called it two months ago.
The Minister for unco-ordinating defence services in the last emergency cannot criticise anyone. This country is and will be adequately protected, both in civil defence and any other manner, if and when an emergency breaks.
In view of the Taoiseach's statement in Wexford within the last couple of days about a grave situation, will the Minister not admit that the Government behaved with foolish and presumptuous optimism with regard to the world situation?
At the time the air-raid shelters were removed.
You were talking about a mythical war two months ago.
What about the drilling down in Dundalk?
Let the Deputy go and get another job from the Minister for Finance.