Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 31 Oct 1951

Vol. 127 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Appointments of Home Assistance Officers.

Mr. J. Flynn

I will be very brief on this matter. I was very disappointed this afternoon when I heard the Minister's reply to my question. In fact, I was amazed at the contents of the second paragraph of that reply in which the Minister stated that the charges made by me concerning recent appointments would not, if true, amount to a breach of the regulations and could not, in his opinion, invalidate the appointments. Bearing that statement in mind and realising that approach, I fail to see that there is any justice in this country. The Minister's reply amounts to an avowal that a man could obtain by intrigue, or otherwise, any type of employment in a responsible position in this country. The Minister's Department is relying on an alteration made some years ago. Under Section 2 of the Local Authorities (Officers and Employees) Act, 1926, all such appointments should receive the sanction of the Minister.

I would like to know when that position was altered, why it was altered, and who made the Order. The Minister's reply states that the appointment of a home assistance officer is not his responsibility but one for the county managers and the local authorities. I fail to see why the Minister did not take action irrespective of the alteration to Section 2 of the Act, when I submitted evidence to him showing that these were political appointments. I have copies of letters which I received from two candidates who were seeking the post and I am quoting now from one of these letters. The writer of it does not hold my political views; he is a member of the Clann na Poblachta Party.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

A Chinn Chomhairle, how could the Deputy ascertain such information?

Mr. J. Flynn

I am about to give the names and addresses of the two candidates.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

We do not want to hear them.

Mr. J. Flynn

The writer of the letter which I am about to quote resides in Glencar, County Kerry. He had eight years' service in the Regular Army, and he was well qualified for the post. I quote:—

"Dear Mr. Flynn,

As you are aware by now, the new public assistance officer for Glencar district was appointed because of his political affiliations. It goes to prove that your statements in the Dáil about the county manager were quite correct. He certainly is working hand in hand with Fine Gael.

I had a chat with your friend, John Murphy, about the appointment of Jeremiah Sullivan, Dreenagh to Glencar. I am sure you are well acquainted with this man's past record. He got 18 months for the criminal offence of discharging a number of shots into Murphy's house in 1935.

I think it only fair that you and your other supporters in the present Government should do all in your power to have the Minister withhold sanction of Jeremiah Sullivan's appointment pending a sworn inquiry being made into those irregularities...."

Mr. Rooney

Is it proper to read out a private letter in the Dáil?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is undesirable to mention names.

Mr. J. Flynn

I am quoting from a copy of this man's letter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I assume that the Deputy has the permission of the person concerned to read his letter.

Mr. J. Flynn

Yes, I have his permission. This man also wrote to the Minister for Social Welfare. I will now continue quoting from his letter:—

"... If he does not take any action in the case I request that you ask a question in the House."

I have asked such a question. To continue the quotation:—

"I have not undertaken writing to you without consulting Murphy. His opinion is that you are the only member capable of exposing these irregularities. I quite agree with him. I spent eight years in the Army, from 1938 to 1946, and have all the qualifications necessary."

This letter is signed by a Mr. John Walsh, who is the secretary of the Clann na Poblachta Party in the Glencar district. That letter in itself is a clear indication of the position in County Kerry, and in regard to these appointments, and it bears out everything that I have already stated. The Minister should realise what we are up against down there irrespective of this section which he quoted to-day in such an evasive manner, evasive in the sense that he and his Department are avoiding the issue when dealing with the serious matter which we are up against down in Kerry. We are faced with a man whose technique is very clever, who is well versed in political matters, and who is backed up by an organisation. I submit, and I can prove my statement, that there was a full rehearsal of this business before the county manager even set about the formation of the selection board.

Mr. Rooney

A Chinn Chomhairle, is it fair to attack a county manager in this House?

An Ceann Comhairle

A county manager has no redress when attacked in the House, and it is therefore unfair to make an attack on him here.

Mr. J. Flynn

I am a member of a county council and I handed in a motion four weeks ago——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy realises that the county manager has no redress and in such circumstances it is unfair to make an attack either upon him or upon anybody when speaking under privilege.

Mr. J. Flynn

I made an attack upon the county manager in Kerry recently and there was no privilege.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would remind the Deputy that there is a limited privilege in county councils.

Mr. J. Flynn

I was interrupted here this afternoon by Deputies D.J. O'Sullivan and S. Collins. The latter stated, by way of interruption, that two of the three members of this selection board were pals of mine. I disagree with that allegation, and I can prove it to be quite incorrect. The chairman of this board, Dr. W. O'Sullivan, is a leading Fine Gael agent in South Kerry and he dominated the selection board. Dr. O'Callaghan——

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

On a point of order, what does the Deputy mean by the word "agent"?

Mr. J. Flynn

If you like, I will change the word "agent" to "supporter".

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

I do not like the word "agent" nor would any Deputy like it.

Mr. J. Flynn

Dr. O'Callaghan, another member of the board, was put in to act a part.

An Ceann Comhairle

The question asks if the Minister will have an inquiry held into recent appointments, if he knows that there was open canvassing, that the successful appointee was a close relative to a member of the board. I do not want the Deputy to go outside the terms of the question.

Mr. J. Flynn

I am not going outside that. I submit that what I am saying at the moment is relevant. Another applicant, Miss Burke, who had an Honours Leaving Certificate and who had 12 months' service when she replaced her father as home assistance officer—he had 40 years' service and an excellent record—has also written to me. I have sent a copy of the letter to the Minister for Social Welfare. She states in her letter:—

"It was some political bias more than justice which placed me second on the list for Killorglin."

Mr. Sean O'Riordan of Killorglin, Secretary of the Fine Gael organisation got that appointment. This lady, who could have been successful in any part of the world in an examination or as a result of her experience, was placed second. That is only one paragraph of the letter. If you like I will read it through.

Mr. Rooney

Did the Deputy recommend this lady?

Mr. J. Flynn

I have made my statement and I have given you the facts. She goes on to say:—

"I was informed that the board was canvassed against me. The rumour goes that Sean O'Riordan's father, through Mr. Palmer, T.D., and some man called Scarteen O'Connor, pulled Dr. O'Callaghan and Dr. O'Sullivan. I had no idea who the board members were."

Mr. Palmer

I think it is a shocking state of affairs that a Deputy of this House should stoop like this and refer to people in such a manner. Nobody knows who the board was.

Mr. J. Flynn

This lady is giving first-class evidence:—

"I had no idea who the board members were. I expected the issue would be decided on merit, not otherwise."

Mr. Palmer

Nobody knows who the board members were. How do we know whether it was on merit or otherwise?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Flynn is making the case that it was not on merit.

Mr. J. Flynn

This lady's letter continues:—

"I suggest you request that my application and that of Seán O'Riordan, together with references and educational certificates be sent to the Minister so that he can have the matter examined. I would like to go before an auditor or inspector for examination with my home assistance books, pensions books, rent books, cottage rent books, closed and balanced for September, 1950 to March, 1951."

That is her record. These books were examined. Confirmation can be got from the county manager and the superintendent assistance officer. That is another statement from one of the candidates. If any officer of the Minister's Department will go down to Kerry and examine the position as an independent fair and just man, he will give credit to that lady.

Dr. Esmonde

The Deputy is making charges which are not substantiated.

Mr. Rooney

He is casting reflections on the members of the interview board.

Mr. J. Flynn

I have made a case.

An Ceann Comhairle

Similar matters have been raised before. There is no use in trying to say that the Deputy is creating any precedent whatever. He is producing this document to substantiate the charges. He has made charges of canvassing etc. against the board.

Mr. Palmer

Is there any possibility of faked documents being used?

An Ceann Comhairle

We have no means of knowing whether they are faked documents.

Dr. Esmonde

He is charging the board with being corrupt and they have no method of defending themselves here.

An Ceann Comhairle

He is charging the board with using political influence and also charges open canvassing. As I understand the Deputy, he is endeavouring to substantiate his case.

Mr. Rooney

He is making use of the Dáil to attack the county manager.

Mr. J. Flynn

It is common knowledge that the Fine Gael Organisation realise that these appointments were improper and made through political bias.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is not going to tell us about the political organisation in County Kerry.

Mr. J. Flynn

They held a special meeting attended by the county manager, and the technique used in this matter was devised and planned.

An Ceann Comhairle

I warned the Deputy before that I would not allow him to make charges against a public official such as the county manager. You stated the county manager attended a meeting of a political Party and that he was influenced by the members of that political Party. That is a statement the Deputy should not have made against a public official.

Mr. J. Flynn

I am submitting, Sir, that the county manager and Dr. William O'Sullivan attended there. He could not be neutral in that application. He could not be fair or just.

Mr. Palmer

Is not that attacking the chairman of the interview board, Dr. O'Sullivan, who cannot reply here?

Mr. J. Flynn

I have the evidence of the candidates.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made certain charges. Surely he is entitled to produce evidence to substantiate those charges.

Mr. Rooney

Is the Deputy aware that appointments could have been made without any interview board? The county manager has power to do that.

Mr. J. Flynn

The candidates are there to prove how they were treated and to indicate the contempt which was shown them by this interview board. I am sorry for the Minister. I know that he is up against it in regard to these regulations. It is unfortunate because this is one of the biggest swindles ever carried out in our country. There is no doubt about that. We will never rest, night or day, until we force Dáil Éireann to amend these regulations so that justice will be done. As Miss Burke and Mr. Walsh said, it is a downright shame to invite them to an interview board when their minds were made up beforehand.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy give ten minutes to the Minister?

Mr. J. Flynn

The candidates knew, or their friends knew, the constitution of the board three days previously and the county manager was responsible for that. He gave them the tip.

Minister for Social Welfare (Dr. Ryan)

I am afraid I cannot add very much to what I said to the Deputy to-day in reply to his question. As I stated, the position is that the county manager has the appointment of these officers under the Local Government Act, 1941, and as long as he complies with the regulations laid down in 1943—that is, the regulations regarding local government officers' appointments, I am afraid I cannot interfere with his appointments. As I pointed out to the Deputy to-day, even if what he says is true, I am advised I cannot do anything. Even if what the Deputy alleges in regard to canvassing took place and that the best person was not appointed, I cannot do anything about it.

The Deputy asks me to hold an inquiry. An inquiry would cost the local authority a considerable amount of money. Usually an inquiry costs up to £600 or £700. Whatever an inquiry might bring out, or whatever report the inspector might present, the fact remains that the appointments have been made and could not be upset. I think it would be unfair, therefore, that I should order an inquiry and put the local authority to a certain amount of expense when there is no hope of upsetting anything that has been done, even if all the allegations that the Deputy has made are true. I, therefore, told the Deputy in my reply to-day that I did not see any point in holding an inquiry and I am afraid I cannot depart from that.

Mr. J. Flynn

Is the Minister going to stand idly by and sanction the appointment of a man who got 18 months before the Military Tribunal in 1935? Will his Department condone that?

Dr. Ryan

We cannot refuse to sanction the appointments, I am afraid.