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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 5 Mar 1952

Vol. 129 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Vóta 73—An Chomhairle Ealaíon.

Tairgim:—

Go ndeonfar suim nach mó ná £1,100 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfas chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1952, chun Deontais don Chomhairle Ealaíon.

Mar is eol don Dáil, is le déanaí a cuireadh an Coiste seo ar bun. Níl sa Meastachán seo ach céad-chostais na Comhairle, cuir i gcás, cíos, troscán, tuarastal na foirne, agus mar sin de. Níor bhféidir leis an gComhairle, go nuige seo, mórán a dhéanamh lena gcuspóirí a chomhlíonadh. Tá súil agam go mbeidh a mhalairt de scéal le hinsint an chéad bhliain eile. Is fearr fanúint go dtí go mbeidh an Bun-Mheastachán os ár gcomhair chun cuspóirí na Comhairle a phlé. B'fhéidir go gcuirfear ceisteanna orm i dtaobh an Mheastacháin agus, má cuirtear, freagróidh mé iad.

I think it only right that I should move this Estimate in Irish. If there are any questions I shall answer them afterwards.

I should like to ask a few questions because the Taoiseach in introducing this Estimate in Irish took very good care to say nothing at all, when speaking in Irish, except that this council was such a short time in existence that it had not very much time to do anything, and that, therefore, he did not think it appropriate to say much about it while preliminary discussions were proceeding. Having furnished us with that flourish to justify the voting of this £1,100, he then broke into the base language of the bloody and brutal Saxon and there is the implication—"I have given a more comprehensive review of the situation in Irish."

I said quite the contrary.

It is not to-day or yesterday I had to remind the House of Il Principe. This is a matter about which the House must be told the truth. Is there any precedent in Europe, America, Asia, Africa or Australia for setting up an arts council and planting a discarded member of the Cabinet in the chair thereof, for no obvious reason except that the Government wanted to squeeze him out of the Executive? Is there a prime minister in any of the five continents which I have named who, having done that, would ramble into the House and move a Vote for £1,100, informing the House in Irish, hoping that nobody would understand him, that he had nothing to say and then to say in English: “If there are any questions asked, I shall be glad to answer them”?

Is there any Deputy in this House, with the exception of the faithful disciple of Il Principe, who occupies the Front Bench who will have the hardihood to get up and say that it is a becoming thing, when you set up an arts council, to choose as its first chairman, a man active in public life but disappointed of political preferment? I remember very well the story being told with great drama of how, when Lord Salisbury informed Sir Stafford Northcote that he could no longer include him in his Cabinet, Sir Stafford Northcote fell dead at his feet. Lord Salisbury, reciting this afterwards in the House of Lords, said that it was on occasions like this that a man who had spent his lifetime in the public service cursed the day on which he had entered it, when public duty required that he should cause the death of an old and faithful friend, by an announcement which was to prove fatal to him. Lord Salisbury was very unfortunate in that he had not an opportunity to study the tactics of our Prime Minister. If he had had that opportunity, instead of breaking the news to Sir Stafford Northcote in the way he did, he would have made him chairman of the Tate Gallery and if so, Sir Stafford Northcote would have survived in prosperity and peace, just as Deputy Little survives among us at present—the Lord spare him for many years—showing by his present equanimity, his bland enjoyment of this office of distinction.

The office of chairman of this body is purely honorary but here is a question I should like to put to the Taoiseach for a specific answer. Is it the intention of the Government that this position should remain honorary? Do they propose to state now that they will not introduce a proposal to change the status of that position? I ask the Taoiseach to tell us why he chose the ex-Minister for Posts and Telegraphs for this post, not because I believe for a single moment that he will be at the slightest loss to explain that he burned midnight oil wondering if he could ask his colleagues in the Cabinet to suffer the cruel loss of this invaluable colleague, having all the time at the back of his mind the knowledge that the Government had reluctantly consented to make way for Deputy Childers, and that Deputy Little had been appointed chairman of the Arts Council. I commend his explanation, whatever it will be, to the attention of the Dáil. It will be a beautiful performance. He will have all the appearances of indignant amazement at being asked such a question and will tell the House that it never crossed his mind that so monstrous a question would be asked and that he had not time to prepare an answer to it.

Those who are not familiar with the Taoiseach's exquisite technique will feel their hearts bleed at the righteous indignation of this blameless man at the mean, ungenerous and disingenuous attack made upon this noble patriot who was planted where he is sitting now, right in front of me, in order to impose the virtual obligation of silence on every Deputy who is capable of saying anything which would embarrass a colleague who is sitting beside him in the same House in which Deputy Little and I have sat for the past 20 years.

I had hopes that this body would function in detachment from the turmoil of politics and that it would become one of the few institutions about which the Oireachtas would find itself in substantial agreement, granting it what annual grant our resources permitted and leaving a very wide discretion to the body to do the work assigned to it as best it thought fit. If Deputy Costello's original scheme had been followed, I think that would have been the result. As the Taoiseach doubtless knows, it was not his purpose to install in the chairmanship of this body a discredited Cabinet colleague. Somehow, it makes one feel rather hopeless when gestures of the kind to which I have referred are so audaciously made.

I had hoped that the Taoiseach, who is so notoriously wrong-headed a man about most things, would, in respect of a matter relating to educational art, show the quite exceptional capacity which he ordinarily shows in dealing with matters of that kind. Usually, when he dealt in this House with matters concerning education or art, one seemed to be listening to the voice of reason and though I personally found it difficult to conceal my astonishment at the voice of reason proceeding from such a source, it did. This is the first occasion on which I found the Taoiseach rambling into Dáil Éireann and sheltering himself behind a cloak of incomprehensible Irish to excuse himself for his failure to deal with something which he must have known it was his duty to deal with on this occasion. The evidence of that knowledge sits behind him. But he brought in Deputy Little in his train. I wonder does he intend to continue this body the way it has begun. If he does, then it was a very unfortunate thing that this Fine Arts Bill was ever brought in at all.

Let me, in conclusion, make a slight comparison between the standards set by the Taoiseach and those set by his colleague who secured the advantage accruing from the political demise of Deputy Little. The Deputy's successor in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, for the great enlightenment of mankind, ordained that there should be free and easy discussions broadcast from Radio Éireann.

How do the Deputy's remarks arise on this Vote?

I thought the comparison would be interesting.

Not in this case.

Suffice it to say that it edifies me to find that while the Government feel that controversy on matters of current interest may not be desecrated by the participation of those engaged in politics, the care and promotion of the arts, in the judgment of the same Dáil, is within an arena in which the barnacled politician constitutes an adornment.

I do not know if it is that the Taoiseach looks upon his erstwhile colleague as not only a politician by accident but a Minister by accident—a disastrous accident at that—and seeks to insure himself against the possibility of such a disaster recurring by choosing him for the position of chairman of the Arts Council. The incident of his appointment can have nothing to commend itself except in providing an opportunity for an occasion, which I specially recommend to the younger members of the Fianna Fáil Party, for the Taoiseach to display the exquisite virtuosity of a prince about to appear holy, pious, magnanimous, agreeable and charitable, but always prepared, should the occasion require it, to act in exactly the reverse way to all these qualities, remembering that it is not what you are but what you appear to be that is important because it is what you appear to be that the multitude perceives: what you are is known only to the few—and them you keep under control.

I should like to ask the Taoiseach if he would give the House any indication as to the annual appropriation which he contemplates in regard to the Arts Council and also if he could indicate to the House the manner in which the moneys made available to the Arts Council will be expended—in other words, will they be subject to the ordinary Department of Finance regulations or will it be open to the Arts Council to expend the funds made available to it without the usual Department of Finance red tape? I welcome the Arts Council. It was an idea which was conceived by the Taoiseach's predecessor and I think it was a sound and a very necessary idea. But, if the Arts Council is to be of any value, it will have to be independent of the Civil Service and of the red tape of the Civil Service mentality. I think, too, that if the Arts Council is to be in a position to make any real contribution it will be necessary for it to have an annual appropriation of sufficient size. No doubt the Arts Council will require premises from which to operate and a staff and will incur the usual overhead expenses that any body of this nature must necessarily incur. I hope, therefore, that the Taoiseach will be able to communicate to the House that it is proposed to make annually available to the Arts Council a sum which will be adequate to cover these expenses and which will also be adequate to enable the Arts Council to give financial assistance to various proposals which it may endorse.

I had experience in the Department of External Affairs of the work of the Cultural Relations Committee, whose function, of course, was limited to the diffusion of cultural matters outside the country, and, in some cases, the granting of assistance for the diffusion of cultural matters within the State. But it was not the function of the Cultural Relations Committee actually to assist in the development of art here. If it did so, it was purely incidental to its main purpose. The Arts Council should be sufficiently equipped to enable it to give direct assistance to different cultural bodies here for the promotion and development of art. I forget whether it was set up, but we had in our first Dáil, certainly, the idea of having a separate Ministry of Fine Art. We never lived up to that idea and the Arts Council, I suppose, is the substitute for it.

I hope the House will give any assistance it can to the Arts Council and to the idea underlying it. It was probably a mistake that the Taoiseach did not adopt the idea and the plan which his predecessor had formerly in regard to it. I think the Taoiseach's predecessor had in mind the appointment as chairman of the Arts Council of a person who held a very high position in the world of culture and who was removed from the political arena. When a Taoiseach formulates a proposal of that kind on a non-political basis, I think that his successor should adopt the proposal, particularly when the general scheme itself is being implemented by the succeeding Government. Be that as it may, the present Government did not decide to pursue that policy and I think it is a pity.

What I am saying is not in any way in derogation of Deputy Little. I am sure the Taoiseach and Deputy Little will both appreciate that it was a matter of regret to me that Deputy Little was not made a member of the Government when the Government was formed, and I think I expressed that view when the Government was formed. Therefore I should like it to be clearly understood that anything I have to say in this matter is by no means said by way of criticism of Deputy Little himself for whom I have the highest personal regard. I merely wish to indicate that it was unwise in a case of that kind that the Taoiseach did not pursue the general scheme which had been planned and decided upon by his predecessor. I have no doubt that Deputy Little will be a good chairman of the Arts Council, but I do not think that an Arts Council which is manned entirely by voluntary effort can succeed. I think it will require the impetus and drive of one person at the top who would really be in a position to devote his whole time to the work of the council.

Perhaps the Taoiseach will communicate to the House whether it is proposed that the Arts Council should have whole-time staff and also the appropriation which it is proposed to make available to the council. If the appropriation were too small it might be better to strangle the Arts Council completely now. I think we would be less than honest with ourselves to set up an Arts Council and then not make sufficient funds available for it to discharge the functions given to it. I feel certain that every Party in the House would willingly agree to making available an adequate sum annually to the Arts Council if it were really shouldering its functions.

I think it is only natural for us to expect, following our experience in this House of Deputy Dillon's attitude towards native industries, that when we seek to restore some historical traits he would, with personal venom and innuendo, also make an attack on any efforts of that kind.

Deputy Little is not in need of an industry.

With Deputy Dillon's efforts in that regard back over the years, it is unfortunate, when one reads the life of Thomas Davis, that some teacher with some of his national characteristics and strong opinion did not get hold of Deputy Dillon in time and bring his mind into those national channels in which the person to whom he referred made his mark in subsequent years.

Thomas Davis used to live in our house at one period.

On a point of order. Everyone was allowed to speak in this debate without any interruption until Deputy MacCarthy started. It is not fair.

I do not mind Deputy Dillon's interjections. We are used to them in this House and the House can value them at their true worth. When setting about the restoration of the name of this nation in the field of art, literature, music and those other traits which will bring our nation and its freedom back to some measure of its ancient reputation, I think that the foundation of this council, and the blending together in it of so many eminent men to direct its affairs, will have a very good effect, and will create confidence in the country. I think that no appointment that has been made will do more in that respect than the appointment of Deputy Little to the chair. We know Deputy Little's reputation. We know of his erudition for many years. He has in this nation made his mark in several lines. That has been of great advantage to our nation in helping to restore our ancient culture, our music, and all the rest. We know his personal character and his uprightness. We know of his efforts to make a good job of any task entrusted to him. He has in this body, as we all know, very eminent men to assist him, and under his direction it will, I am sure, be a great success.

Some, perhaps, would like to see those who are well qualified in the musical sphere with better representation on the board, but seeing that, in order to bring this very desirable movement into closer contact with the people local panels will be formed in the various areas of interested people, I am sure that, ultimately, the restoration of our national culture as envisaged by this Act will have a splendid effect on our people at home and abroad. I think we need say very little more except to give to this Vote our full accord so that the finances which may be necessary for this very important national work may be at the disposal of Deputy Little and his confrères.

Tomás Ó hUigin

Ba chóir don Taoiseach a innsint dúinn cad é an fáth cúrsaí poilitíochta a thabhairt isteach in obair na Comhairle.

Cuireadh i mo leith gur labhras i nGaeilge in aon-turas le nach dtuigfeadh muintir na Dála mé. Níl aon fhírinne sa méid sin. I nGaeilge a labhras toisc go bhfacthas dom gur cheart dom, ó tharla gur le cúrsaí cultúra a bhaineas an Meastachán seo, an Ghaeilge d'úsáid. Is minic a cheapaim nach labhraim féin—ná mórán Comhaltaí eile, ach oiread—an Ghaeilge chomh minic agus ba cheart dúinn. Is é an fáth nach labhraimid sáthach minic í go mbímid ag cuimhniú ar na daoine nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge acu agus go mbíonn faitíos orainn nach dtuigfidís an chaint.

Níor chuir an chaint a rinne an Teachta Díolún ionadh ar bith orm. Bhí a fhios agam nár chaill sé deis a riamh le draoib agus salachar a chaitheamh pé áit a mbeadh sé. Bhí a fhios agam, nuair a bhí an Stiúrthóir dá ainmniú agam, go mbeadh caint den tsórt a chualamar ón Teachta Díolún le cloisteál faoi. Tá daoine sa tír a cheapas má tá baint ag fear le Fianna Fáil nach ceart aon phost beag ná mór a thabhairt dó sa tír. Ní aontaímse leis an tuairim sin. Tá tuairim agus leath na ndaoine ar thaobh Fianna Fáil faoi láthair agus, le cúnamh Dé, tá an lá ag teacht a mbeidh an tromlach againn. Ní ghéillimse gur cheart post a shéanadh ar dhuine toisc baint a bheith aige le Fianna Fáil. Sa gcás seo, ceapadh an Stiúrthóir toisc go bhfacthas dúinn gur fear é a bhí sároilte agus sár-oiriúnach don phost.

It was no surprise to me, and not for one moment would I stand here and pretend that it was a surprise to me, that attacks were made by Deputy Dillon on our choice of Deputy Little as director of the Arts Council. We were fully aware that attacks would be made by Deputy Dillon and, in fact, I would have thought that Deputy Dillon had changed if, when the opportunity was given to him, he did not avail of it.

We made the appointment, nevertheless. We made it because we believed that the man whom we were appointing was fit for the position. I will not accept the proposition that because an individual happens to be a member of Fianna Fáil he must not be given any appointment in the country. Neither will I accept the proposition that because an individual happens to be an ex-Minister in Fianna Fáil he is thereby debarred from being appointed to some position for which he is fitted. I have never taken up that position.

Mr. O'Higgins

They are all with you on that. Your entire Party will support you in that. You need not worry about it.

Any reasonable person who thinks at all will support me in that. If a man is qualified for a position, the fact that he belongs to Fianna Fáil provides no valid reason why he should not be appointed. To shirk making such an appointment would be sheer cowardice.

We must face these political attacks. I, for one, will not hesitate to face them at any time when I consider the appointment being made a good appointment. I believe this appointment is a good appointment. Deputy Little has been long associated with cultural matters. When he was Minister for Posts and Telegraphs his main anxiety was in relation to cultural matters. He also left behind him work which will show a permanent result.

The original idea was to put a salaried expert as chairman of this council with a number of other people to act more or less as an advisory body. It was intended that this expert should carry a high salary; indeed, if one regards him purely as an expert, perhaps the salary could not be regarded as such a very high one. I did not accept that. I believe that if a council is to function properly and if the other members are honorary members, that council can best function if it is a completely honorary committee which can effectively direct activities in the way in which they wish them to go and stipulate the course to be taken while using the experts for their own special purposes.

This committee can appoint experts. If it wants to it can appoint a chief expert. I think such an appointment was in the mind of the former Taoiseach. The activities of this committee are to be purely educational. It must keep in touch with all sections of our people. It must keep in touch with city and rural groups. It must, by its own activities, inspire similar activities throughout the country. For the purpose we have in mind I think no better choice could have been made than Deputy Little. The fact that Deputy Little had not been included in our present Ministry made him available for this appointment. It might be said —I do not propose to argue the point— that it would be better not to have a member of the Dáil. It might be better, but I had to look for someone in whom I could have complete confidence. I had to look for someone whom I knew would move in the right direction. I was primarily responsible for the nomination and I nominated my colleague because I have known him for a number of years and I know him to be a man of culture in himself.

That is not in issue.

If one wants to get this work done properly the first step is to select a man who has culture in himself. It is admitted by everybody who has the slightest knowledge of Deputy Little that he is a man of the highest culture. The knowledge that we have somebody on whom we can rely outweighs in my opinion the fact that he is a member of the Dáil.

We did try to make it a rule that no member of the Oireachtas would be put on a board in any capacity if there was a salary attached to that appointment. The general idea was to have all members of the council on an equal footing with the chairman, the chairman carrying whatever rights would be given to him as director under the Act. It was suggested, and the suggestion, of course, emanated from Deputy Dillon, that this was only an initial step and that when Deputy Little had been accepted as director and when he had served some little time in office his post would be made a salaried one. That is not the intention of the Government. This is a purely honorary appointment. For that reason the main objections to appointing to an office like that a member of the Dáil go by the board.

The most potent objection and the one upon which I had to satisfy myself in appointing Deputy Little as Director was that he would be present here. Although responsibility for the Arts Council rests under the Act upon the shoulders of the Taoiseach there might be a tendency to ask the Deputy questions as if he were directly responsible to the House for the functioning of the Arts Council. That is one of the reasons why I have always thought it advisable that the Attorney-General, for instance, should not be a member of the House because he might be asked questions on matters in which he would be called upon to give a more or less judicial decision. To that extent there is a certain objection in having a Deputy occupying such an office. I weighed all the objections and I came to the conclusion that in putting Deputy Little's name to the Government for appointment by the President as Stiúrthóir I had the assurance of my personal knowledge of Deputy Little over a period of years and knew his character, his activities and his inclinations. I decided for that reason that it was worth facing the disadvantages I have mentioned.

I have been asked by Deputy MacBride what is the sum we have in mind. I think, when the Act was going through—there was a sum of £20,000 or £25,000 mentioned—it was unanimously agreed on both sides of the House that no upper limit should be set because it would depend a great deal on the nature of the activities which would be undertaken by the council. That is why I did not mention any particular sum in this case. I would like to say that the sum of £10,000 is provided for the coming year. That sum is provided because it is felt that in the first year of its activities the council will probably not need the sum that was originally envisaged. With regard to the sum of £20,000 or £25,000 that was mentioned, I forget whether it was mentioned in the first drafting of the Act.

Would the Taoiseach bear in mind that there is an inevitable tendency to take the first sum made available to a body of that kind as being the settled sum that it would get in the future?

I do not think so. That has never been so. It has never worked out like that. The sum that would be provided by the Dáil would depend on the case that can be made. If the activities of the council, as envisaged by the former Taoiseach when he introduced the Bill, which are laid down in the Act go in that direction I have no doubt that the sums required would be provided by the Dáil. With regard to the question of moneys provided by the Dáil and moneys for which the Government will take responsibility, you will always have the pressure of a variety of other demands. I do not know whether the Deputy who put the question thinks there is, but in my opinion there is a sum in regard to Government expenditure beyond which we cannot go unless we completely live beyond our means.

In drawing up this Estimate, as in drawing up others, and making a total sum available, it will have to be borne in mind that these sums have to be got by taxation and, in this case, directly by taxation. As long as we are the Government—I believe I am interpreting correctly the attitude of my colleagues—the cultural side is not the side that will get the axe.

Has the Taoiseach formed any estimate of what percentage of the £10,000 will be taken up for administrative costs?

That is a very important consideration and as long as I have any responsibility for those actions and bear the responsibility in the Dáil of providing money it is one of the things that I will look carefully after and see that the administrative expenses only bear a reasonable proportion to the work that is otherwise done. In this particular Estimate, £400 was for furniture, about £70 for rent for a period of the year and about £310 for the expenses of the staff. The staff at the moment consists of a brilliant secretary and a shorthand-typist. That is the staff at the moment, but so far as in any way trying to cut down the administrative expenses as opposed to the money that is spent in getting work done, I cannot tell in the long run what it will be. One of the costs will be travelling expenses and meetings. I do not know, but it may be that members of the council are located in areas in which the expenses will not count for very much. I forget if there was any other question.

There was a question as to the method of accountancy.

This is a Grant-in-Aid and while the accounts will be audited by the Auditor-General and the total sum determined by the House, the sum provided for particular purposes will depend, I think, on the recommendation of the Taoiseach.

With the consent of the Minister for Finance.

With the consent of the Minister for Finance? I forget whether or not the Minister for Finance comes in explicitly. The intention was to do one's utmost to give the Comhairle as free a hand as possible, all that was necessary being to convince the Taoiseach in the first place with regard to any sums that might be made available. The Minister for Finance, who holds a responsible position, has to try to make ends meet and to raise money having regard to the demands made by the various other Departments. No head of the Government would cavalierly say that such and such a sum had been voted by Parliament, and that such and such a sum is made available for a particular purpose. In that connection, I would naturally consult the Minister for Finance. I do not think he is definitely within the framework of the Act. As to the question of examining proposals in detail and delays in regard to making sums available, that will be cut as much as it is reasonable to do so.

There is a certain amount of reason in what is commonly called finance red tape. It provides for a careful examination of the proposals that are put up and which involve the expenditure of public money. I think it is very wise to have one Department of State responsible. I can quite imagine people who talk about having £40,000,000 available to be scattered throughout the country finding it rather irksome to have a Department which would ask them precisely how much was to be spent this year, how much was to be provided for a particular purpose, and whether we were to provide five or six times as much as it would be possible to spend in order to make a big show. These are some of the questions which cause some people to find fault with the Department of Finance.

Mr. O'Higgins

The Tánaiste does so.

The Department of Finance is scarcely relevant on the Arts Bill.

We will get away from Finance and go on to fine arts. That is the only other thing that I have to reply to. I see no reason why the appointment of Mr. Little ought to suggest that this will have certain political consequences. I do not see it at all. I think it would be better if we approached this matter in the way it was approached when we were in opposition. The fact that the former Taoiseach would have the appointment of a high-salaried person and so on was not questioned by us. We asked nothing whatever about it. We accepted it, and we did not say that political patronage or anything of that sort was likely to be involved.

Suppose the Taoiseach appointed me?

If the Taoiseach had appointed Deputy Dillon as director of cultural activities then I think it would be time for the country to retire from culture, because if there is one man who has brought rottenness into the political life of this country it is Deputy Dillon.

Mr. O'Higgins

I think Deputy Dillon is at least as erudite as the Taoiseach.

I am not talking about erudition. I am talking about common decency.

Mr. O'Higgins

We hold Deputy Dillon as being at least as decent as the Taoiseach.

The Deputy can have his own views. I am going to hit back occasionally. Sometimes, like some of Deputy Dillon's colleagues, when attacks are made by them, the best way of dealing with them is by absolute contempt. I may think of that, too, in regard to Deputy Dillon. But if Deputy O'Higgins or anybody else thinks I will stand up here just to be an Aunt Sally for Deputy Dillon without answering back, he is making a mistake.

Mr. O'Higgins

The Taoiseach should at least restrain himself at times.

It was not I who began in this case.

Mr. O'Higgins

You made the appointment.

I made the appointment of a decent cultured person recognised as such throughout the whole country——

Mr. O'Higgins

No one questions that.

And I stand over the appointment for that reason.

Mr. O'Higgins

Nobody questions that.

If nobody questioned it what is the meaning of Deputy Dillon's speech. Everything that Deputy Dillon could say of a mean type he said it. I would not expect anything else from him. I would be genuinely surprised, in fact amazed, if in this House Deputy Dillon thought there was any mud that he could fling and did not fling it.

Mr. O'Higgins

The Dillons helped to give this country freedom long before you were born.

As far as Deputy O'Higgins is concerned he is qualifying to be equally good with Deputy Dillon. I would prefer to leave the matter now. I do not easily get into this, but I think when a colleague who is a cultured gentleman is made the subject of attack by a person like Deputy Dillon it is time that one should show some of the disgust that one feels.

Injured innocence.

I do not think any other question has been asked. If there is any further query I shall be very happy to answer it so far as my information will allow me to do so.

Vote put and agreed to.
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