asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will state the grounds for the statement made recently by his Parliamentary Secretary that his Department was faced with wholesale fraud, which resulted in the necessity for bringing in Supplementary Estimates amounting to three or four million pounds.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare: Statement of Parliamentary Secretary.
In reply to a question by Deputy Michael P. Murphy last week it was mentioned that a number of investigations had been carried out by the Department of Social Welfare throughout the country over the last 18 months as part of its effort to put a stop to a variety of abuses in relation to the payment of social welfare benefits, including unemployment assistance. It is on the evidence provided by these investigations and on statistics of cases of fraud, or attempted fraud, such as those given in the reply to the Deputy's next question that I have based any public statements made by me in this connection.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that an Estimate for an extra £3,000,000 or £4,000,000 suggests that over 50 per cent. of the recipients of unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance are obtaining it illegally?
I should like to point out to the Deputy that that was a compressed report of a speech of mine at a convention during which there was a debate on benefits and at which everybody was asking for increases in everything. I dealt with the abuses and I also dealt with the increase necessary in the Supplementary Vote which arose out of the benefits given in assistance and out of the abuses under social insurance.
I do not disagree at all with the activities of the Parliamentary Secretary in trying to do away with fraud where fraud exists. The only purpose of my question is to try to give the right impression to the country and that is, that the vast majority of those who are genuinely unemployed are receiving what is their due in unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance.
I assure the Deputy I do not begrudge any benefits which are legally due. If I have given a wrong impression I now avail of this opportunity to correct it.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary tell us what is the cost of these investigations?
The Parliamentary Secretary is back-pedalling. Let him do so.
I understand an official was sent down to West Cork——
I do not think West Cork arises.
No, it does not.
The general direction of the Parliamentary Secretary's bicycle is concerned here and he is now moving backwards.
It would be no harm if the Parliamentary Secretary answered my question. We have seen little in the Press to indicate that there has been any fraud at all. I do not see any of these people who are alleged to be guilty of fraud being prosecuted. The Parliamentary Secretary might be more detailed in his statement.