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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Feb 1959

Vol. 173 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Vote 41—Science and Art.

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1959, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Institutions of Science and Art, for certain Miscellaneous Educational and Cultural Services, and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

The first sum required is £600 on sub-head A (15) of the National Library, that is, for the survey and reproduction of films of Irish historical interest. There are many old films of Irish historical interest in film collections outside this country, for example, in the Pathé company's archives in London, the British Film Institute, the Imperial War Museum and the French Film archives in Paris. The discovery and cataloguing of these films has been proceeding for some time.

The early films are on a cellulose nitrate base and are likely to deteriorate rapidly at a certain stage. It is necessary, therefore, to have them copied on to a permanent base before that stage is reached. When this has been done, it will be possible to make paper enlargements from any of the frames. It is expected that the work of survey reproduction may take about five years. The necessity for the Supplementary Estimate arose because these films on a cellulose nitrate base were deteriorating so fast that it required immediate provision in order to ensure that they would be preserved on some permanent base.

What about the Comhdháil Náisiúnta one?

I was going to let them go on one by one.

The Minister was wrapped up in the films.

Sé an suim atá uainn i gcóir Comhdhail Náisiúnta na Gaeilge na £4,000. Sin breise don chuntas do Choghail Náisiúnta na Gaeilge iníochta faoi choinniollacha leagtha síos ag an Aire Oideachais le haontú an Aire Airgeadais.

Bhí deontas-i gcabhair de £8,000 ag Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge i 1946 nuair nach raibh an Chomhdháilach ina thús, deontas £10,000 i 1948 agus deontas de £10,300 sna blianta 1954-56. Cuireadh deontas de £9,800 ar fáil tré meastachán na bliana 1958-59.

Tháinig toscaireacht ón Chomhdháil chun cainte, áfach, leis an dTaoiseach, le hAire na Gaeltachta agus liomsa i mí Aibreáin 1958 agus rinne siad cás go mba chóir an deontas a cuireadh ar fáil dóibh a mhéadú i ngeall go háirithe ar an laghdú atá tagtha i luach an airgid le blianta anuas.

Chuir an toscaireacht in iúl gur bh'éigin don Chomhdháil cumhangú mór a dhéanamh ar a gcuid imeachtaí toisc an laghdú a bhí tagtha ar luach an deontais. Bhí orthu, mar shompla, duine dá gcuid timirí do chur den bhóthar, scor de scoláireachtaí de scríbhneoirí etc. Ba mhór mar do ghoill an cumhangú san, easpa timireachta agus poiblíochta go speisialta, ar chúrsaí na gClub Leabhar tré líon na gcomhaltaí do choimeád ró-íseal. Sé an líon comhaltaí atá ann faoi láthair i gcás Club Leabhar na Sinsear ná 2,200 agus i gcás Club Leabhar na Sóisear ná 2,500.

Fagann den líon ró-bheag comhaltaí atá ins na clubanna leabhar agus den éileamh ró-bheag atá ar leabhair Gaeilge ag an bpobal i gcoitinne go mbíonn sé riachtanach cabhair speisialta do thabhairt d'fhoilsitheoirí leabhar Gaeilge i dtreo nach mbeidh cailliúint ró-mhór orthu de bhárr leabhair Gaeilge do chur amach. Tugtar cabhair den tsórt sin tré Bhord na Leabhar Gaeilge ach táimíd sásta taréis dúinn an scéal do bhreithniú go mion nach leor an chabhair a tugtar ar an mbealach sin i gcás foilsitheoirí nach bhfuil gnó ró-mhór á dhéanamh acu agus go bhfuil gá dá bhrí sin lena thuille cabhrach i dtreo nach dtiocfaidh meath ar na clubanna d'uireasa leabhar oiriúnacha do bheith dá bhfoilsiú.

Dá bhrí sin tá beartaithe againn an deontas—i gcabhair do Chomhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge do mhéadú de £4,000 sa bhliain 1958-59 i dtreo go mbeidh ar a gcumas fiacha áirithea atá orthu de bharr an laghdaithe i luach an deontais do laghdú agus cabhair bhreise do thabhairt i leith costaisí a bhaineann le foilsiú leabhar áirithe gnáth litríochta i nGaeilge do no clubanna leabhar agus téacs leabhair áirithe do na meán-scoileanna.

Bhí sé de nós le tamall ag Gael-linn Gear-Scannáin Gaeilge do chur dá dtaispeáint ins na pictiúrlanna mar agaisín le Universal News. Bhí ceann de na gearr-scannáin sin ar thaispeáint gach mí. Thosnaigh Gael-linn ar scannáin bhreise do dhéanamh i dtreo go mbeadh ceann ar thaispeáint gach coichíos in ionad gach mí agus chuireadar an beartas sin i bhfeidhm le héifeacht ó Mhí Meán Fomhair 1958. Ar an iomlán chuireadar ocht gcinn de scannáin breise ar fáil.

Is chun cabhrú le Gael-linn chun costas na scannáin breise sin do ghlanadh atá an t-airgead breise seo ag teastáil. Tharla go bhfuil deireadh le Universal News anois ins na pictiúrlanna. Tá beartas eile i dtaobh gearr-scannáin Gaeilge fé bhreithniú idir Gael-linn agus lucht tairgthe scannáin do na pictiúrlanna. Ní féidir liom fós a rá cad a bheidh i gceist sa bhliain airgeadais 1959-60.

Is comhar cumann teoranta cláraithe é Dúnlaoi. Ceannaíodar teach i gCorcaigh mar cheanncheathrú do na gluaseachtaí eagsúla Gaeilge atá ar súil sa chathair. Chaitheadar £7,000 ar cheannach, deisiú, cóiriú agus troscán an tí agus tá an tsuim £3,000 dá iarraidh mar chabhair dóibh chun an costas san do ghlanadh. Bainfidh timpeall £1,000 in aghaidh na bliana le costais reatha an árais ach tá an Cumann chun an costas sin do sheasamh iad féin comh maith le fuíollach na gcostas caipitil.

Do hosclaíodh Dúnlaoi i mí na Nollag, 1956, agus tá imeachtaí mar seo leanas ar súil sa teach ó shoin:—

1. Taithíonn cumainn éagsúla Gaeilge na Cathrach an tÁras—Craobhacha de Chonnradh na Gaeilge, Cara, Cuallacht Gaelach na hOllscoile, An Réalt (Legio Mariae) etc.

2. In uachtar an tí tá Club Dúnlaoi: seomra suí, seomra ceoil, leabharlann agus seomra chaitheamh aimsire (Tá 300 ball sa Chlub— táille—giní). Bíonn na seomraí sin ar oscailt do bhaill an Chlub gach aon oíche sa bhliain agus bíonn clár ilghnéitheach seachtainiúil ann dhóibh.

3. Ar an gcéad urlár tá seomraí cruinnithe, cistin agus seomraí na gcótaí.

4. Ar an urlár tá an Amharclann (suíocháin do 120 stáitse). Anso bíonn céilithe, ceolchoirmeacha, scannáin. (Tá cumann drámaíochta bunaithe san Áras anois).

5. Ranganna: Bíonn sé ranganna sa tseachtain do dhaoine fásta. Tá ceithre síor ar na rollaí agus—ar éileamh na rang—leanann na ranganna an bhliain ar fad. Tuistí óga furmhór na scoláirí.

An féidir leis an Aire a innsint dúinn cé mhéid den £4,000 atá i gcóir leabhar, agus cé mhéid i gcóir fiacha sé sin le rá, de bharr an laghdaithe i luach an deontais? An mbeidh aon síntiúisí eile?

On sub-head A (15), perhaps the Minister would tell us what is happening to these films that are to be reproduced from the originals now held in various places in England? Are we to have these films reproduced merely to store them over here somewhere? I should like to know of what type and dimensions they are and whether or not they will be available to commercial cinemas or to such places as those mentioned by the Minister in sub-head B (10). I have not much idea of what type of films they are and perhaps the Minister could expand what he said and say if they will be available to large cinemas or to Connradh na Gaeilge, An Réalt and other Irish promoting societies.

On sub-head B (9) I am afraid I do not speak Irish as well as the Minister and I had difficulty in following him, even though he has good Munster Irish.

What about Ulster?

I could not understand a word of it. Under sub-head B (9), I understand that £3,250 is to go to Gael Linn for the production of films. I think it is only right that somebody should pay tribute to Gael Linn for the tremendous work they are doing. It is very difficult for them to compete in a market in the atmosphere in which they are competing, the atmosphere of the modern cinema where top class films are shown with top class actors and commentators. Gael Linn does its part for the Irish language in an excellent manner. I suggest that if the Department of Education is taking further interest in Gael Linn, there should be some sort of explanatory note or preface to the films by, perhaps, the Minister for Education asking the public to listen and learn.

Sometimes these Gael Linn films are subjected by some of the audience to derision. In my opinion, that low criticism is disappearing, but I think if the films had encouragement by way of a short message from the Minister for Education, or the Minister for the Gaeltacht, they would be even more acceptable than at present. I would gladly support any encouragement, particularly of a financial character, the Minister can give to Gael Linn or any other body seeking to promote the Irish language in the only way in which I think it can be promoted, through forms of amusement and entertainment.

As far as the last item is concerned, I have no objection to the grant to the institution which I believe is situated in Cork City. I am not at all jealous of Cork, but I should like the Minister to say whether or not the Department has funds at its disposal to aid similar institutions, although possibly not on the same big scale. There are other societies and institutions all over the country promoting the Irish language through plays, films, lectures and ceilithe and other forms of amusement and I should like the Minister to say if grants, however small, can be made available to An Réalt in the different provincial towns where they operate. I do not want to subject the Minister to a barrage of applications, but it would be a good thing if there were some funds at the Minister's disposal by which to show even token encouragement of the excellent work done by the bodies which the Minister has just mentioned.

An féidir leis an Aire a rá conus is féidir leis £10,845 a shábháil ar an bhóta seo,

Bhí foráltas ann i gcóir foclóir nua ach ní raibh sé ullamh in am agus beidh an méid sin ar fáil. Beidh sé ag dul isteach ins an Meastacháin i mbliana.

Tá liúir orm a fheiscint go bhfuil deontais de níos mó ná £3,000 ag dul do Gael Linn. Sílim go bhfuil níos mó dá dhéanamh ag Gael Linn agus Comhaltas Uladh ar son na Gaeilge ná tá á dhéanamh ag Roinn an Oideachais.

Ní cuirfhinn in a choinne sin.

Is trua go bhfuil an suim comh beag. I think it is a miserly sum to give Gael Linn and if I might couple Comhaltas Uladh with Gael Linn, they are doing more than the Department did over the past 25 years. About 90 per cent. of the Deputies have been educated through Irish and should now be Irish speakers. How many of us can speak Irish? Students who have taken advantage of scholarships sponsored by those two bodies are now native speakers and not afraid to use the language. They may not be Irish scholars, but they are certainly Irish speakers. This is a niggardly sum. I wish we could see the day when we could hand over the question of the Irish language to Gael Linn to concentrate on the spoken word and forget all about reading and writing Irish. It is only when we reach that stage that we will have a real revival. I hope that the commission set up in connection with the Irish language will listen to the views of Gael Linn. £3,250 is a meagre sum when we can give £13,800 for the printing of books and such other matters——

Books that are to be dumped.

Certainly, they are not read in Ulster, anyway. I should like to know what percentage of the books printed are done in the Ulster dialect? I am afraid it is very small.

Thank God.

Remember that Ulster still holds the greater part of the living Gaeltacht.

I prefer Ulster Irish to any Irish.

I wish we could convert a few more Leinster people.

Would the Deputy put us in the Gaeltacht area and qualify us for all the grants?

You are getting quite a few of them as you are. I welcome the grant and sincerely hope it will be increased next year. I join with Deputy Corish in congratulating Gael Linn on the good work they are doing and I hope the Government will see its way to give a substantial grant to Comhaltas Uladh for the magnificent work done by them, not only for pupils of Twenty-Six County schools but for pupils in the schools of the 32 counties of Ireland.

Ar dtúis, mar fhreagra ar an cheist a chuir an Teachta Ua Maolchatha mar gheall ar an suim sin £4,000, tá £3,000 ag dul ar leabhra agus £1,000 chun fiacha do ghlanú.

In answer to Deputy Corish, the type of films which are in question here and which we desire to preserve are cinema films of Irish historical interest. The intention is that we make copies of them and they are available, I understand, in the form of newsreels. Typical examples of these are the O'Donovan Rossa funeral with Pearse making the oration, the funeral of Thomas Ashe, the scenes of the Easter week fighting and the Treaty Debate meetings of Dáil Éireann. As I indicated when I introduced the Supplementary Estimate, these are on a certain base which is no longer capable of preserving them. We may have to make copies quickly of them on a more permanent base in order to have them preserved for posterity.

Do not keep them for posterity. Show them to the people of to-day.

It will not be possible to have copies made of them at all if we do not move now. In regard to Gael Linn, I agree with what has been said by Deputy Corish and Deputy O'Donnell. However, the sum granted in this instance, £3,250, was specifically requested by them. As the House knows, for some time past, they have been adding Amharc Éireann to the Universal News feature and they were able to do that out of their own funds every month by arrangement with the Rank Organisation, and apparently the Rank Organisation has been very co-operative with them. Gael Linn decided they could do it every fortnight, but they did not have the resources themselves to do it, but would require the extra sum of £3,250 to do it. Unfortunately, after the grant had been sanctioned, but before the introduction of this Supplementary Estimate, Ranks put an end to Universal News in the cinemas. Gael Linn are now trying—and I am sure they will succeed—to produce some alternative means of presenting these films fortnightly on the screens.

I do not think the suggestion of Deputy Corish is really necessary for the carrying out of this work. On their merit, Gael Linn are good enough to command public attention and respect without any imprimatur from the Minister for Education. I admire their initiative and think their success is really due to the initiative they have shown and the independence with which they can work. By leaving them alone and giving them whatever assistance they desire from time to time, if it can be given, I believe they will do far better work for the language.

In regard to the suggestion that due attention be given to Gael Linn in the commission which is studying the Irish language in general, that will be done; in fact, they are represented by their chairman on the commission and he is one of the most active men in Gael Linn.

Another point made both by Deputy Corish and Deputy O'Donnell referred to the provision of £3,000 for Dun Laoi. Dun Laoi was a project started some years ago in Cork. The Gaeltacht organisation there had no adequate centre of activity and they bought an old house in the North Mall reasonably convenient to the centre of the city. I forget exactly what they paid for it, but the total sum for acquisition and reconstruction amounted to £7,000. Much of the work done was voluntary, including the architect's work. Most of the members themselves did the work of reconstruction. Notwithstanding that, they found themselves unable to meet the full cost of £7,000. They provided £4,000 from their own resources and as well as that the annual outlay amounted to £1,000, with the result that they were unable to make any provision to pay the balance of £3,000 that was due on the purchase and reconstruction of the premises.

It was in order to meet that situation that we came to their assistance. There was grave danger that, having got so far, if they did not receive assistance from us, they might have had to abandon the house and all the activities that go with it. This is not intended to be an annual grant by any means. It is a capital sum. Neither is it intended as a scheme whereby similar organisations in different parts of the country can feel themselves entitled to grants. This was a special case, as I have indicated, and special provision was made to meet it.

Would the Minister say if the £12,000 is still available for Aisteóirí Ghaothdobhair for the erection of their theatre.

I do not know if it is in my Vote, but there is no question of its not being available in future.

I should like to ask the Minister whether between now and the main Estimate discussion he would turn his mind to the problem of the Place Names Commission. Every year thousands of people are dying who have irreplaceable information on the place names of this country. Progress is deplorable. Nobody seems to give a damn and I would invite the Minister to inquire into that matter in detail so that we may raise it when the main Vote comes before the House for consideration.

Vote put and agreed to.
Barr
Roinn