asked the Taoiseach when he will make a statement of the Government's intentions having regard to the suspension of negotiations between Great Britain and the European Economic Community.
Private Notice Question: - EEC Negotiations.
It is a matter of deep regret to the Irish Government that the negotiations for Britain's entry into the European Economic Community have had to be suspended. The Irish Government earnestly hope that the impasse will not be prolonged and that a way will be found to enable all European countries, including Ireland, which share the ideals expressed in the Treaty of Rome, to participate fully in a wider Community.
In the circumstances which have unfortunately arisen, re-consideration of the position in relation to our application for membership of the Community is inevitable. We cannot, however, come to firm decisions until the situation becomes clearer and it is difficult to forecast when this may be possible. Our trade arrangements with Britain are of basic importance, and in deciding what our policy should be, we must have regard to the relations which may evolve between Britain, the Community and other countries during the period immediately ahead, as well as other developments likely to affect conditions in our principal export markets.
The Irish Government believe that the historical forces making for European unity are so strong that they must eventually prevail. In this belief, we shall continue to prepare and plan for our entry to an enlarged Community, taking every step which will further this objective and avoiding any that might make it more difficult to attain.
Meanwhile, given the importance of trade with Britain in our external economic relations, the concern of the Irish Government will be to explore the possibility of widening our export openings in Europe and elsewhere while developing further our trade with Britain. We will be prepared to consider participating in any negotiations for collective arrangements for freer trade involving our principal trading partners. In any negotiations, whether multilateral or bilateral, it must be expected that better export opportunities for agricultural and industrial products will be obtainable only in consideration of continued reduction of protection.
We must adhere firmly to our principal objective, which is the reshaping of the Irish economy to enable us to hold our place in a world that is moving towards freer trade and to maintain the rate of economic growth achieved in recent years. Indeed, the situation which has arisen calls for a redoubling of our efforts to reach maximum economic efficiency. This is no time for either relaxation or discouragement. Competition in world markets will become progressively more acute. Exports are the key to Ireland's economic progress, the only real basis for higher living standards, more employment and reduced emigration. Industrial expansion and increased industrial exports are becoming more important than ever as a condition of economic growth. Increased efficiency is also more necessary for the wellbeing of agriculture.
The great national need is to complete as soon as possible the comprehensive survey of agriculture and industry now in progresss and carry through the requisite reorganisation and adjustment in order to bring every sector of our economy to a state of competitive efficiency. Everything we have already done in preparation for membership of the European Economic Community has been worth doing for its own sake. We must continue, and strengthen where necessary, the measures adopted and planned in contemplation of our assuming by 1970 all the obligations of free trade which membership of the Community will then entail. In this way, a general level of economic efficiency will be established which will accelerate sound national development and also facilitate our entry to the Community when the time comes.
For these reasons, it may be assumed that there will be a further general reduction of our industrial protective tariffs on 1st January, 1964.
Moreover, the preparation of the Second Programme for Economic Expansion will be pressed forward so that, even if the circumstances should be less favourable, we will find means of maintaining the impetus of our economic advance over the period to 1970 and reach by then the target of a 50 per cent. increase in gross national product by comparison with 1960 which the OECD countries have collectively set themselves.
If, notwithstanding all the uncertainties of the situation and the unlikelihood that they will be removed in the very early future, there is a general desire in the Dáil for its discussion, I would be prepared to move the adjournment of the Dáil after Questions on Tuesday next for this purpose.
Arising out of the Taoiseach's reply, while subscribing to the regret which he has expressed at the apparent failure of the negotiations to achieve a truly united Europe——
On a point of order —I am sorry to interrupt Deputy Dillon—is the Taoiseach's statement an answer to a question or is it a statement on which members of the House may now comment?
It is an answer to a question; it is not open to debate.
Any discussion on this must be in the form of interrogatories to the Taoiseach?
Interrogatories to the Taoiseach.
I just wanted to get the position clear.
While emphasising our share in the regret expressed by the Taoiseach at the failure of the negotiations to produce a truly united Europe and the prospect of an Atlantic Union envisaged by President Kennedy in his November Day address, I feel that the country here will expect an opportunity of hearing from the Government their intentions in certain specific matters.
I put down this question today in order to find out when the Taoiseach would be prepared to meet the Dáil to discuss these matters. He has gone into them in some detail today but there are certain specific queries which require to be answered categorically if a serious atmosphere of uncertainty is not to develop in the country.
I suggest one of them is, what do the Government propose to do in regard to the outstanding application by Ireland to join the European Economic Community which is at present registered in Brussels and, so far as I know, still is outstanding? The people will want to know whether the Government intend to pursue that or to withdraw it. I think the country will want to know what the Government propose to do in respect of potential European markets and whether we have any plans or whether we propose to concoct plans to deal with bilateral negotiation with individual European countries to protect or expand such European outlets as may still be available to us. Lastly, I think the Government would be expected to make some statement on whether, in view of the developments at Brussels, it is proposed to take any step for strengthening or expanding our trade relations with Great Britain. I would be glad to know.
Do we take it the reply the Taoiseach has given is, in fact, a statement or does he propose to make a further statement on next Tuesday and, further, does it necessarily mean that the Taoiseach intends to make this statement on Tuesday and to have a general debate in the House?
I certainly do not anticipate that the situation will have cleared sufficiently by Tuesday to permit of final decisions being taken on the matters mentioned by Deputy Dillon, or, indeed, on other aspects of this question. However, I think the House might wish to have a general discussion and, if so, I am prepared to facilitate it, although it will be appreciated that it will have to be on a very tentative and provisional basis because many of the factors which will be important in the formation of our own policy will certainly not be clarified by then.
The position is that unless the Opposition ask for a discussion on Tuesday, the Taoiseach does not intend to make a statement, pending the emergence of what he describes as a clearer picture? Would it be right, therefore, to say that the Taoiseach will not be prepared to make a statement until there is a decision on this situation by the British Government as it affects them?
Not necessarily. I said I would make a statement regarding Government policy as soon as the situation was clear enough to permit of decisions bearing upon these policy matters being reached.
It is being taken to-day in the British House of Commons.
I think it is quite possible that it could be some time before there will be sufficient clarification of the situation to justify final decisions. I doubt very much if that situation will be reached by Tuesday next. It is extremely unlikely, but I would be prepared to give the House all the information available to the Government as to the course of events and as to the possible alternative courses that may have to be considered.
In any case, the Taoiseach does not think he will be able to say by Tuesday next whether Ireland's application is to be continued, withdrawn or suspended?
The Government think it unlikely that a position will develop by Tuesday next which would make it wise to decide that matter.
Is the Taoiseach aware of the fact that a statement made about a week ago by General de Gaulle indicating his concept of the European Common Market looks more like an effort to establish French hegemony in Europe than to promote an outward-looking comprehensive European Economic Community to which, in the first instance at all events, we were prepared to give sympathetic consideration and that the statement by General de Gaulle has completely changed the French point of view on that situation?
Secondly, is he aware of the fact that there is a wide conflict between his conception of what a European Economic Community is which was indicated by the American Ambassador in his speech last night and the first concept of the European Economic Community, and a still wider conflict between what the French have in mind and what the Americans have in mind as a means of co-operation in Europe?
Thirdly, would the Taoiseach endeavour to obtain before Tuesday next, if possible, some indication from General de Gaulle as to whether we could, if we so desire, on our own, secure admission to the European Economic Community, now that his Foreign Minister has said that it is unthinkable that a new person could be admitted to an unfinished community?
Lastly, Sir, have we still got the Taoiseach's assurance that before it is committed in any way, economically or politically, to join some concept of the European Economic Community, the House will have an opportunity of considering all these matters in detail, recognising that in the long run what are called the ideals of the Rome Treaty may have to be translated in Ireland to the mundane task of making sure that every man, woman and child gets a decent living and shelter and will not be driven on to the breadlines whilst so-called idealism is taking shape in certain parts of Europe?
Is this answer which we have just heard from the Taoiseach not just yet another instalment of the misleading and fraudulent rigmarole which the Taoiseach has put out here over the past 18 months, attempting to mislead the public into believing that Ireland has an independent industrial and agricultural economy and may be capable of accepting full membership of the Common Market? Is it not further a fact that what the Taoiseach is waiting for——
All this is an argument; it is not asking a question.
——for the British Parliament to say what they are going to do and then we will follow suit?
In reply to Deputy Norton, the position is that we have made an application for membership to the Community of Six. I have said that because of the circumstances which have now arisen, it is quite obvious that we have to reconsider the position of that application. This process of reconsideration will be going on for some time but the point at which it would be wise to take a decision will be when we have all the knowledge that it is possible to get to permit it. I do not think we should rush to take a decision until we have that knowledge. We are dealing mainly with the question of devising a policy which in the new circumstances will promote the continued economic growth of our country and there is no such element of urgency in this situation which would justify us rushing to a decision until we have the knowledge which would give us the firm basis for it.
In view of the announcement which was made last night that it is proposed to convene a meeting of the Five and a British representative in Geneva in February, would the Taoiseach consider that this country might be either represented at that meeting or have observer status to ensure that we will be fully informed of what steps are being taken?
No.
In view of the fact that Mr. Heath said that the breakdown was due to political rather than economic reasons, would the Taoiseach undertake to try to discover what these reasons were?
There are many people in the world trying to discover these reasons.
Does the Taoiseach propose to have any contact with the British Government on this? It seems clear that we have to consider our position because Britain finds herself in the position in which she is.
I think what would be important, before coming to a final conclusion, is to know how British commercial policy is going to develop vis-à-vis the European Economic Community, the European Free Trade Association, or the world generally, because British trade is such a large factor in our economy that it is something we would want to know before we could take a decision which would be any way final.
The Taoiseach told us recently that there was a contact with the British Government with regard to negotiations which they were carrying out. Has the Taoiseach been in contact on the recent issue?
Yes.
Could the Taoiseach state what are the concise and prompt decisions the Government intend to take when the present situation is clarified, as per his speech last night, and would he clearly co-relate that statement with the possibility whether the Government intend to withdraw the application for full membership in light of what happened in Brussels yesterday?
Our decisions must cover all aspects of the matter, including those mentioned by Deputy Dillon. I do not intend to rush these decisions until we have at least a general picture of the situation which we would need to have, but as soon as that picture does emerge from the dust of the conflict, then we will take our decisions. When I spoke of making a statement in the Dáil, that is the type of statement I had in mind, but because I could not hold out the possibility that it might be possible to make such a statement for some weeks, I thought it might be desirable to have a free-for-all discussion on Tuesday.
Is it not now quite manifest from the exchanges that have taken place here that in the interests of settling the public mind and of ventilating the whole question, we should have, albeit, a preliminary kind of discussion on Tuesday. Nobody in any part of the House desires to rush the Taoiseach into a premature decision but it is manifest that the House and the country want a discussion for the purpose of clarification.
Yes.
In those circumstances, I take it that the Taoiseach agrees with me that a suitable form of discussion is desirable?
We will have that discussion on Tuesday. I want to make it quite clear, however, that, in my view, it is unlikely that there will be sufficient clarification of the position before Tuesday to enable the Government or any member of the House to reach a final decision as to what will——
Nobody wants the Taoiseach to reach a final decision until the people are consulted. He reached a final decision before and we saw what happened.
I think the House will appreciate the Taoiseach's difficulty in making a statement and trying to clarify our position with regard to the European Economic Community when the whole position is clouded. It would probably be better if the statement were made when the Taoiseach is in a position to have close regard to what has happened elsewhere. At the same time, I think there is some advantage for the Taoiseach and the Government in having a discussion so that the Government may learn the viewpoints of other Parties in the House, certainly before they make up their own minds as to what way they are going to come down in the likelihood of changed circumstances.
Some of the discussions may be academic if General de Gaulle persists in his desire to exclude certain people. It has been indicated on his behalf that it is in his view illogical to admit a new member to an unfinished community, although he has told the Danes that they would be welcome to come in. Whether that is because the General now wants a geographically compact union or not, nobody can say. I should like the Taoiseach to find out between now and the debate whether in fact, if we want to go ahead on our own, which I hope we do not, we could secure admission. It is quite fruitless from the point of view of the Dáil and general policy to be——
We will have this discussion on Tuesday.
I do not think there should be any further questions on this.
The Taoiseach has evidently decided not to go it alone.